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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate What Judgments Come
Outstanding 19 38.78%
Above Average 21 42.86%
Average 7 14.29%
Below Average 2 4.08%
Poor 0 0%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll

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Old October 6 2011, 01:41 AM   #16
Thrawn
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Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

I adore Vanguard, but like I said, I'm waiting for Mack to bring it home before I finish off the series.
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Old October 9 2011, 06:52 PM   #17
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Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

Mhmmm.... "Average"

The writing, characterization is very good, but I think there were a few too many story-threads in this book.
I hope this was just the calm before the storm that should be this series' finale.
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Old October 10 2011, 03:35 AM   #18
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Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

I'm about halfway through and am enjoying it quite a bit.

One problem though is how Starfleet is violating the Orion ship. This is soverign territory and by sending people on board to kidnap Reyes and to access the navigation logs they are commiting piracy against Ganz. He was perfectly within his rights to have killed the two security officers IMO. (Can't recall their names at the moment and the book isn't handy.)

If Ganz had commited a crime against the Federation then at least Starfleet would have a reason to board the Omari-Ekron but as it is it looks like Starfleet is the bad guys in this one. Nogura may have been out of the loop the first time but he jumped in with both feet on the second.
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Old October 10 2011, 08:01 AM   #19
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Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

DrBashir wrote: View Post
I'm about halfway through and am enjoying it quite a bit.

One problem though is how Starfleet is violating the Orion ship. This is soverign territory and by sending people on board to kidnap Reyes and to access the navigation logs they are commiting piracy against Ganz. He was perfectly within his rights to have killed the two security officers IMO. (Can't recall their names at the moment and the book isn't handy.)

If Ganz had commited a crime against the Federation then at least Starfleet would have a reason to board the Omari-Ekron but as it is it looks like Starfleet is the bad guys in this one. Nogura may have been out of the loop the first time but he jumped in with both feet on the second.

But that's one of the whole plot points in Vanguard really, isn't it? That there is a side to Starfleet that's doing things that aren't quite right, so to say.
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Old October 10 2011, 08:57 AM   #20
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Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

That's true but in this one everyone seems to be in on it. Zeke Fischer, who I can see doing something sneaky & underhanded to get Diego off the ship, furthers the espionage by passing along some tech that not only will require Reyes to stay on the ship longer but will put him in even more danger than he's already in. It struck me as out of character.

Now, T'Prynn I can see having no problems with something like this at all. She's not exactly the poster child for ethical behavior. And Nogura, after being shocked! Shocked I say! by the initial attempt just slides right into phase two. Rather than being outraged about an operation that led to the deaths of two of his crew I got the feeling that he felt cheated that he didn't get to be the one that sent them to be killed.

It's a minor part of the story but it just seems like some people are acting out of character just to service the plot, Fischer in particular.

There are elements of Starfleet that do things that just aren't right but there should also be consequences. We know, thanks to TMP, that Nogura just keeps climbing the ladder. Of course, with the well known writer of the last book, he may be the only one to make it our alive...
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Old October 10 2011, 08:08 PM   #21
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Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

Half way through and still interesting. Section 31 had nothing to do with the botched attempt to free Reyes?
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Old October 10 2011, 09:01 PM   #22
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Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

Compared to the other Vanguard books it felt flat. I dearly loved the others and maybe I went into this one with me expectations set too high. The subplots involving the Defiant and Nimbus III were just filler. We all know how those plots end, and it was not worth taking away from the main story to tell them.

Ganz got the short end of the stick, before I felt a real threat from him, now he was just laughable. It was like he was made a cliche villain from a Saturday morning cartoon. I felt bad for him, and his death was almost a mercy killing.

Pennington and Quin shined though, that I will admit.

Despite my criticisms it was still better than most Trek fiction being released now. I hold the Vangaurd series in very high esteem and hope the final book gives it a proper send off.
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Old October 10 2011, 09:16 PM   #23
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Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

DrBashir wrote: View Post
That's true but in this one everyone seems to be in on it. Zeke Fischer, who I can see doing something sneaky & underhanded to get Diego off the ship, furthers the espionage by passing along some tech that not only will require Reyes to stay on the ship longer but will put him in even more danger than he's already in. It struck me as out of character.

Now, T'Prynn I can see having no problems with something like this at all. She's not exactly the poster child for ethical behavior. And Nogura, after being shocked! Shocked I say! by the initial attempt just slides right into phase two. Rather than being outraged about an operation that led to the deaths of two of his crew I got the feeling that he felt cheated that he didn't get to be the one that sent them to be killed.

It's a minor part of the story but it just seems like some people are acting out of character just to service the plot, Fischer in particular.

There are elements of Starfleet that do things that just aren't right but there should also be consequences. We know, thanks to TMP, that Nogura just keeps climbing the ladder. Of course, with the well known writer of the last book, he may be the only one to make it our alive...
Well, T'Prynn has to survive too, since we already know she dies in 2349, 7X years after Vanguard.
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Old October 10 2011, 09:52 PM   #24
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Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

And Pennington's survival may be assured, since there's a journalism school named after him in the 24th century, suggesting he went on to have a prestigious career. But I suppose it's possible that the school was named for him posthumously in commemoration of his work in the Taurus Reach, or that the name is just a coincidence. So it's hard to be sure.
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Old October 10 2011, 10:53 PM   #25
SolidusRaccoon
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Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

Christopher wrote: View Post
And Pennington's survival may be assured, since there's a journalism school named after him in the 24th century, suggesting he went on to have a prestigious career. But I suppose it's possible that the school was named for him posthumously in commemoration of his work in the Taurus Reach, or that the name is just a coincidence. So it's hard to be sure.
And the fact that he visits Reyes, telling the stories through a "flashback"
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Old October 10 2011, 11:17 PM   #26
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Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

^D'oh! Forgot that part.
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Old October 11 2011, 01:47 PM   #27
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Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

FYI Dayton is running a Q&A post about the book on his blog at the moment.
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Old October 11 2011, 09:05 PM   #28
DrBashir
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Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

SolidusRaccoon wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
And Pennington's survival may be assured, since there's a journalism school named after him in the 24th century, suggesting he went on to have a prestigious career. But I suppose it's possible that the school was named for him posthumously in commemoration of his work in the Taurus Reach, or that the name is just a coincidence. So it's hard to be sure.
And the fact that he visits Reyes, telling the stories through a "flashback"
Which is set in 2270 if I recall, just a couple of years in the future. No telling where the final Vanguard novel will end. They could both be deaders by the end of it.

Who we know will survive: T'Prynn, Terrell, Nogura, Carol & David Marcus. Anyone else on or connected with the station, not reassigned as we know M'Benga was?
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Old October 11 2011, 09:46 PM   #29
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Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

DrBashir wrote: View Post
SolidusRaccoon wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
And Pennington's survival may be assured, since there's a journalism school named after him in the 24th century, suggesting he went on to have a prestigious career. But I suppose it's possible that the school was named for him posthumously in commemoration of his work in the Taurus Reach, or that the name is just a coincidence. So it's hard to be sure.
And the fact that he visits Reyes, telling the stories through a "flashback"
Which is set in 2270 if I recall, just a couple of years in the future. No telling where the final Vanguard novel will end. They could both be deaders by the end of it.

Who we know will survive: T'Prynn, Terrell, Nogura, Carol & David Marcus. Anyone else on or connected with the station, not reassigned as we know M'Benga was?
Pennington says that he was there until the end, which is BEFORE he visits Reyes, so we know they survive.
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Old October 11 2011, 10:54 PM   #30
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Re: Star Trek: Vanguard: What Judgments Come review thread (SPOILERS)

I must disagree. It is very possible that while "the end" as Pennington so tiredly stated it may indeed be the end - do not discount the very real possibility it won't be the "real" end. Mack has a knack for finding brilliant ways to kill characters off. It's possible that the story - which starts in "real time" in WJC can merely just pick up again - leaving Pennington and Reyes to face some unforeseen drama - leaving them both dead. Pennington did a LOT of homework to FIND Reyes - it's possible his own investigation drudged up people who are also looking to find Reyes - and silence him permanently...
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