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Old September 30 2011, 09:32 PM   #46
SJSharksfan39
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Re: Does it make me a bad person, if I agree with Brannon Braga?

Jetfire wrote: View Post
“To me, Seven of Nine added a nice touch of magic that the show needed at the time. The fact that she was a beautiful woman was just, to me, a benefit.”
YES! I totally agree with him.
I read that line, and my first thought was "and you were romantically involved with her Brannon, that's a plus too".

Anyway, I know I'm in a minority, but I like Braga, mainly because with the write writing partner, he could bring out some good stuff, like Cause and Effect and All Good Things. Not only that, but he takes onus on crap episodes, like Threshold.

As for the whole Seven/Kes thing, I've always said that it didn't need to be Seven Vs. Kes. There were characters on the show that could have departed instead of Kes, unfortunately one of those characters, for what ever reason, was named one of the sexiest males of that year (I'm comfortable in my sexuality in saying that Garrett Wang is not one of the first 50 people I think of when I think of sexiest man alive but go figure). Anyway back to Kes and Seven, it would have been great to have them both on the show, and I think it would have made the show better, since it really seemed like Lien came into her own in Season 3 and with the new hairstyle.
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Old October 1 2011, 01:39 AM   #47
exodus
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Re: Does it make me a bad person, if I agree with Brannon Braga?

starlitegirl wrote: View Post
You missed the point entirely. You toss out a list of shows that lost their KEY stars and compare it to what I'm saying? In my post I said 'perhaps if he was some kind of pivotal character' which he was not in any shape form or size, yet most every show you use has key characters leaving:
Yes, you're post was nothing but pure speculation without a ounce of fact. I was comparing actual fact vs. what you said regardless of if they were pivotal or not. Besides, Braga already clearly covers that in the interview when he states that loosing any character is a risk to loosing parts of your audience. There was equal risk loosing Kes as there was loosing Harry, regardless of personal favoritism.

Edited to add that you also have not figured into the equation that most of the shows you listed were fairly big hits. Voyager was never a huge hit. It wasn't even on a major network.
According to Viacom and the National TV board, UPN was a major network.
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Last edited by exodus; October 1 2011 at 01:53 AM.
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Old October 1 2011, 01:32 PM   #48
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Re: Does it make me a bad person, if I agree with Brannon Braga?

Yes, you're post was nothing but pure speculation without a ounce of fact. I was comparing actual fact vs. what you said regardless of if they were pivotal or not. Besides, Braga already clearly covers that in the interview when he states that loosing any character is a risk to loosing parts of your audience. There was equal risk loosing Kes as there was loosing Harry, regardless of personal favoritism.
According to Viacom and the National TV board, UPN was a major network.
Ah well then you win. You're right. I can see that now. How I ever had the opinion that Harry was irrelevant is baffling. He was clearly a very important character and his loss could have plummeted the series ratings. Don't know how I missed that.
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Old October 1 2011, 06:45 PM   #49
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Re: Does it make me a bad person, if I agree with Brannon Braga?

What baffles me about Harry Kim is how boring and undeveloped he was, despite the writers having an obsession with him for such a long damn time. If you're going to neglect other characters in favor of glorifying one ensign, you'd better have something to show for it.
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Old October 1 2011, 06:53 PM   #50
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Re: Does it make me a bad person, if I agree with Brannon Braga?

exodus wrote: View Post
starlitegirl wrote: View Post
I agree that Seven really was a great addition. Possibly the greatest cast addition to any show I can remember. However, Kes had so much more to offer. Don't know why they had to get rid of her. Idiot should've tossed Kim. I don't care what poll had him in the top ten. How many women have ever STOPPED watching a show because some supposedly hot character left? Seriously? Perhaps if it was some kind of pivotal character, but even then, we're far less likely to stop watching and lord knows it's not as if he was gaining any viewers.
Are you kidding?

X-Files
Homicide
Law & Order
Sliders
Valerie's Family
Spin City
CSI
....and most recently "2 and a 1/2 Men's" future is in question without Charlie Sheen.

There are PLENTY of examples of shows that suffered ratings declines and issues due cast members leaving. It was one of the the main reason the creators of LOST couldn't kill off Jack, who was supposed to die first season.
There are more folks too consider other than women when thinking of getting rid of Garret Wang. Wang is the first Asian actor to be the the main cast of a Trek series. Having Wang in PEOPLE magazine not only has the potential to bring in women but the growing Asian American community as well. It's potentially more controversial to fire an ethnic actor on a show that's supposed to promote equality than it is to swap out one blonde hair, blue eyed actress for another.
So you mean that Kes was dumped because the actress wasn't Asian or from some other ethnic minority?

Looks like pure racism to me.

Or just another way to justify the rude and unnecessary firing of an actress and the dumping of a great character.
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Old October 1 2011, 09:25 PM   #51
JanewayRulz!
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Re: Does it make me a bad person, if I agree with Brannon Braga?

Actually, there's also a case for sexism in this situation.

By switching Seven for Harry, the balance of power tilts dangerously towards the female in the star trek tv equation.

By simply adding Seven to the cast of Nine, it would have diluted the storylines devoted to "other" characters.

I liked Kes... but I came to love Seven. I was sorry to see Kes go, but can't find it in my heart to regret Seven's arrival EVEN though it diluted the presence of my other fav female... B'Elanna Torres.
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Old October 2 2011, 12:12 AM   #52
The Dominion
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Re: Does it make me a bad person, if I agree with Brannon Braga?

JanewayRulz! wrote: View Post
Actually, there's also a case for sexism in this situation.

By switching Seven for Harry, the balance of power tilts dangerously towards the female in the star trek tv equation.
I wish they wouldn't have been afraid to do that, I would have liked to see Voyager be the most female dominated crew.
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Old October 2 2011, 04:27 AM   #53
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Re: Does it make me a bad person, if I agree with Brannon Braga?

Honestly, Harry was the source of a lot of good stories.

So was Tom, Belenna, the Doctor, and so on.

The question should be...

Who do we get rid of who contributes the LEAST?

I'd have gone with Neelix, good episode about the afterlife or not.
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Old October 2 2011, 04:43 AM   #54
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Re: Does it make me a bad person, if I agree with Brannon Braga?

Just curious, but other than Timeless, what was a good Harry Story. Maybe Non Sequiter, but other than that, I can't think of any.
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Old October 2 2011, 04:15 PM   #55
exodus
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Re: Does it make me a bad person, if I agree with Brannon Braga?

Lynx wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
starlitegirl wrote: View Post
I agree that Seven really was a great addition. Possibly the greatest cast addition to any show I can remember. However, Kes had so much more to offer. Don't know why they had to get rid of her. Idiot should've tossed Kim. I don't care what poll had him in the top ten. How many women have ever STOPPED watching a show because some supposedly hot character left? Seriously? Perhaps if it was some kind of pivotal character, but even then, we're far less likely to stop watching and lord knows it's not as if he was gaining any viewers.
Are you kidding?

X-Files
Homicide
Law & Order
Sliders
Valerie's Family
Spin City
CSI
....and most recently "2 and a 1/2 Men's" future is in question without Charlie Sheen.

There are PLENTY of examples of shows that suffered ratings declines and issues due cast members leaving. It was one of the the main reason the creators of LOST couldn't kill off Jack, who was supposed to die first season.
There are more folks too consider other than women when thinking of getting rid of Garret Wang. Wang is the first Asian actor to be the the main cast of a Trek series. Having Wang in PEOPLE magazine not only has the potential to bring in women but the growing Asian American community as well. It's potentially more controversial to fire an ethnic actor on a show that's supposed to promote equality than it is to swap out one blonde hair, blue eyed actress for another.
So you mean that Kes was dumped because the actress wasn't Asian or from some other ethnic minority?

Looks like pure racism to me.

Or just another way to justify the rude and unnecessary firing of an actress and the dumping of a great character.
Only someone that doesn't understand diversity or racism would call it such.

Voyager had 4 actors in the main cast that are White American, 1 African American, 1 Asian American & 2 Latino American's. The White American actors are still in the minority. Swapping out Seven for Kes doesn't change that, so the show is still racially diverse and not racist.

If the majority of the audience understands the need on the show for a character like Seven, the producers knew they didn't have the budget to for 10 cast members. Then letting someone from the cast go wasn't unnecessary, it was required for show to continue. It's simple economics.
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Old October 2 2011, 04:24 PM   #56
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Re: Does it make me a bad person, if I agree with Brannon Braga?

JanewayRulz! wrote: View Post

I liked Kes... but I came to love Seven. I was sorry to see Kes go, but can't find it in my heart to regret Seven's arrival EVEN though it diluted the presence of my other fav female... B'Elanna Torres.
Really?
I didn't find B'Elanna got diluted at all.
She was the only character besides Tom that didn't require Seven to improve her stories. Most if not all of B'Elanna's eps. don't have Seven in them or little to no interaction between them. Roxanne Dawson is the only actor not up-staged by having Seven around. She carried her eps. all her own. It kinda tells me the writers felt B'Elanna was one of the few characters on the show that could hold their own and Dawson was equally as strong an actress as Ryan & Mulgrew.
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Old October 2 2011, 06:27 PM   #57
The Dominion
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Re: Does it make me a bad person, if I agree with Brannon Braga?

B'Elanna was to good for the writers to keep her down.
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Old October 2 2011, 08:38 PM   #58
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Re: Does it make me a bad person, if I agree with Brannon Braga?

The thread title.

Casting no immoral stink on any one.

But it makes me think about Brannon trying to talk Jeri into Anal for the first time.

"C'mon honey it's just my probe."

"More like your nanoprobe."

"Hey! I can use that!"
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Old October 2 2011, 11:26 PM   #59
You_Will_Fail
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Re: Does it make me a bad person, if I agree with Brannon Braga?

Charles Phipps wrote: View Post
Honestly, Harry was the source of a lot of good stories.
Correction - Harry *could* have been the source of a lot of good stories. Maybe if he hadn't been such a bad actor, they would have entrusted him with more dramatic storylines.

And Harry and Seven had fairly similar job roles - they read sensor readings a lot. Keeping Kes over Harry would have made the show much more varied.
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Old October 3 2011, 12:43 AM   #60
exodus
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Re: Does it make me a bad person, if I agree with Brannon Braga?

You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
Charles Phipps wrote: View Post
Honestly, Harry was the source of a lot of good stories.
Correction - Harry *could* have been the source of a lot of good stories. Maybe if he hadn't been such a bad actor, they would have entrusted him with more dramatic storylines.
Not so sure about that.
Levar Burton is a better actor than Wang but Geordi had some pretty shitty stories. Besides being blind, LaForge stories and Kim stories are pretty inter-changeable. Both were misfits when it came to romance and neither one developed much over the years.
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