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Old September 22 2011, 02:29 PM   #781
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Myasishchev wrote: View Post
Now that I look at it again I don't think it's supposed to be blood exactly, at all, but rather her arteries. They don't look like radial arteries and tributaries to me, but, hey, alien! so that's okay. They seem to be mirrored on each hand.

So, I think what the scene's supposed to be conveying is that her x-ray vision is kicking in. I'd like to point out that there are better ways to portray this (i.e, showing an inset panel of her skeletal structure). But I honestly think this is what they're going for, since her super-hearing starts operating a couple of pages later, and it doesn't look like blood spatter from someone else, and Asrar didn't draw any injury on her.
If they're mirrored then you're probably right.

You know, one thing that building her emergence around a battle scene accomplishes for the character is that she's motivated to discover immediately what her new abilities are. I have to admit that I was paying a lot more attention to her internal monologue than to the details of the fight. And having this as her first experience on Earth is likely to bias her quite a bit.

I'm also curious about her father, and hope that her memories of him have some ongoing relevance to her character and that he was a character in the fullest sense. Her parents in previous versions are pretty much standard-issue Krytonian futuroids, aren't they? I mean, back when I was paying attention (I admit again, it was a while ago) the main way you could tell one Authoritative Kryptonian Male Scientist from another was by the symbol the artist drew on their shirts and whatever the colorist did with their hair. Evidently succession to leadership on the Science Council or whatever is based on a pattern-baldness-and-beard-growing competition that's only open to men of seventy years or older.
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Old September 22 2011, 02:50 PM   #782
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Dennis wrote: View Post
I'm also curious about her father, and hope that her memories of him have some ongoing relevance to her character and that he was a character in the fullest sense. Her parents in previous versions are pretty much standard-issue Krytonian futuroids, aren't they? I mean, back when I was paying attention (I admit again, it was a while ago) the main way you could tell one Authoritative Kryptonian Male Scientist from another was by the symbol the artist drew on their shirts and whatever the colorist did with their hair. Evidently succession to leadership on the Science Council or whatever is based on a pattern-baldness-and-beard-growing competition that's only open to men of seventy years or older.
Her parents were actually developed a bit in the previous iteration especially her mother who had become the leader of the short lived New Krypton.
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Old September 22 2011, 02:53 PM   #783
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)



It depends on the continuity for Zor-El. His earliest appearances had him as a "scientist," like his bro, which of course at the time meant "capable of doing any damn thing the plot required, and lots of stuff that it didn't."

I think in the newer stuff he was an artist. Which I thought was a cool idea, in that it was a counterpoint to Jor-El being a scientist, although 1)they put him in the ugliest super-person related costume ever (including, including, 90s Superboy and Electric Superman which I actually liked but anyway) and 2)the stories involving him were fucked up beyond all recognition. Oh, until he came back. Then he was fine. Then he died again when Reactron or possibly Metallo shot him while making jokes about raping Supergirl.

Hey, that's something else good about this: none of the antagonists suggest raping Kara! One of them does call her "honey" which is dismissive and sort of a weird thing to say, and would ring truer from 11Bs than the hardened killdozers these men (and maybe also women) must be to be entrusted with highly advanced Roman numeral suits, but at least they don't talk about having sex with her beaten-unconscious body, which happened a lot back in the old universe because where would a a mid-oughties superhero comic be without implied or actual rape?

Nowhere, that's where.

Oh, and the painted nails are still bothering me. That's lazy. Kryptonians wear gloves anyway. John Byrne said so.

Anyway, my guess is that Zor-El's still an artist, one that deals in the creation of virtual reality experiences. This is a fine idea. I know, because when I was brainstorming "How would I reboot Supergirl?" that's what I came up with. Except my version had more talking. Lots and lots more talking because that's what makes superhero comics great; the talking. Also, Brainiac. Brainiac makes superhero comics great, so he'd be there and very square.
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Old September 22 2011, 02:56 PM   #784
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Yeah, that would make sense. I assume that's how they explained Kara actually growing up in some sort of simulation of Krypton after it went BOOM?

What Kara needs next is to meet up with Willow and Giles and Cordelia. Xander is optional; he annoyed me.

Myasishchev wrote: View Post
Oh, and the painted nails are still bothering me. That's lazy. Kryptonians wear gloves anyway. John Byrne said so.
It is rather specific, but of course just about everything that distinguishes women from men in the way we present ourselves is a matter of culture and there's no reason that any of it should be replicated even on a world where the folks look completely human. Kara wears her hair long; Kara wears a skirt; Kara colors her nails. It's all just conventionalization to make the character attractively "feminine" to the average reader, in the same way that Superman is big and ripped despite not having been physically challenged by gravity since he was a kid.
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Old September 22 2011, 03:08 PM   #785
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

I liked Xander fine but always questioned why he was there. I was never a huge Buffy fan (ex was), but I understand this was something of a running joke.

One of the things I'm curious about is that the Mikes said Supergirl would have a supporting cast. I sort of think that's a mistake, but nothing to be done about it; you need people for the talking.

The problem here is that--and I'll have to read it to know for sure--Clark doesn't seem to have a supporting cast. So the obvious support structure for his cousin is entirely missing. I guess Lana Lang could be in it, but that always struck me as sort of odd--"Hey, girl I fooled around with in high school, how would you like to be a mother/older sister figure to my weird alien cousin?"

It is rather specific, but of course just about everything that distinguishes women from men in the way we present ourselves is a matter of culture and there's no reason that any of it should be replicated even on a world where the folks look completely human. Kara wears her hair long; Kara wears a skirt; Kara colors her nails. It's all just conventionalization to make the character attractively "feminine" to the average reader, in the same way that Superman is big and ripped despite not having been physically challenged by gravity since he was a kid.
I know. It sucks. It should have some sort of context and character rationale, though. Black Canary wears makeup? Fine. Wonder Woman? Pushing it. Alien? Bizarre. But in comics women wear makeup when they sleep, when they wear masks, when they've just been shot to a strange new world across the fathomless depths space...

'Course, I find it bizarre as hell in Star Trek too. It's just off-putting to me. Women still look different (and attractive women still look attractive, if that's important) without makeup. It's pandering, I guess.

Fun fact: Evey Hammond didn't wear makeup for the largest part of V For Vendetta. It's considered a seminal work, and has sold jillions of copies. Just saying.

ETA: It also helps that I'm probably permanently stuck in a Byrne Krypton mindset, where no one fucks, and thus has no use for sexualizing themselves (but who knows? those overcomplicated headdresses might be like clear plastic heels on Krypton). An affirmatively asexual protagonist? Well, I find the concept interesting.
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Old September 22 2011, 03:11 PM   #786
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

One of the things I'm curious about is that the Mikes said Supergirl would have a supporting cast. I sort of think that's a mistake, but nothing to be done about it; you need people for the talking.
Since she doesn't know anything about humans that could be darkly funny.

Supporting characters: "Please we don't live in cages!"

Supergirl: "what sort of owner would I be if I let you monkeys wander around uncared for?"


Or maybe an issue where Superman had to explain to a baffled Supergirl why eating human flesh is prohibited.

Sadly I doubt they will go that way....
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Old September 22 2011, 03:22 PM   #787
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

JoeZhang wrote: View Post
One of the things I'm curious about is that the Mikes said Supergirl would have a supporting cast. I sort of think that's a mistake, but nothing to be done about it; you need people for the talking.
Since she doesn't know anything about humans that could be darkly funny.

Supporting characters: "Please we don't live in cages!"

Supergirl: "what sort of owner would I be if I let you monkeys wander around uncared for?"


Or maybe an issue where Superman had to explain to a baffled Supergirl why eating human flesh is prohibited.

Sadly I doubt they will go that way....
"I find the one moon to be displeasing, and I shall correct it. The planets you call 'Mars' and 'Mercury' aren't doing much, are they?"

Supergirl: Fucks up the World
would be a fun comic. Limited potential, but I'd buy it.

P.S.: upon review even Byrne drew Lara with lipstick (tasteful, not too flashy, but still).
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Old September 22 2011, 03:44 PM   #788
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Myasishchev wrote: View Post
Women still look different (and attractive women still look attractive, if that's important) without makeup.
Women look different and attractive without anything, of course.

"Pandering" is one way to look at it, but of course the presentation of people in just about all popular art is pandering to the wish-fulfillment fantasies of the audience. The heroes and villains of superhero comics in particular have no more direct relationship to what we might expect such creatures to be like "in reality" than characters in pornographic fiction do to human beings.

Tight inter-title character continuity is probably a lot to ask here, given how this relaunch is being handled, but when I saw Supes hovering over Supergirl there, speaking Kryptonian it struck me that he's looking at a mirror image of himself from the era that Morrison's depicting right now in Action - and that's only five or six years in his past. Supergirl is impulsive and undisciplined, discovering what she can do, and is real unlikely to immediately see the point of any human institutions or customs that don't satisfy her personal prejudices. The difference is that he at least had the understanding of his surroundings and identification with us that comes with growing up here, and she doesn't. I'd love to see Superman's interaction with her reflect his eventual awareness of what he's gone through and where she's at.

Superboy, now that I think of it, is sort of the third angle in this triangle - he knows no other creatures than human beings (and is seeing us at our most unpleasantly manipulative and amoral if not our absolute worst), has grown up nowhere (and N.O.W.H.E.R.E., interestingly enough) because attempts to trick him with a virtual reality life as Kara (presumably, at this point) was have been failures, and he so far seems to lack a native capacity for empathy at all.

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Old September 22 2011, 06:48 PM   #789
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Really liked Supergirl. Not a whole lot happened storywise, but it still did a great job getting inside her head and making us sympathize with her situation. I also love how truly alien she seems to be to this world.

And of course the art was just fantastic. Wasn't sure about the costume at first, but now that I've seen it in action it totally works. It's girly, but unlike the last one doesn't make her look like some bimbo cheerleader. lol

Batman I liked. Wonder Woman seemed promising, but it's too early to get a good read on. SHE seems fairly interesting and badass, but all that crap with the gods and amazonians never interested me before, and this looks like it'll probably go down that same road.
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Old September 22 2011, 07:15 PM   #790
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

I gather that the snippets of dialogue like "I don't talk to fish" are her super-hearing kicking in, but isn't it convenient then that everything she hears from afar are remarks ascribable to DC characters we can recognize? It's not like she overhears some unidentified twelve year-old shrieking at his mother in Hunan dialect or something.
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Old September 22 2011, 08:18 PM   #791
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
So all of the old arcs are still intact?
Except those that aren't.

Less snarky answer: Batman and Green Lantern yes.
True. But they both have interacted with the other characters so there is much that is not rewritten. Still dc made it out as a reboot jumping on point for new readers. I expected ret-conned origins to show up in all issue 1's. Instead we just got issues like any other month. They are all in the middle of stories.
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Old September 22 2011, 08:25 PM   #792
Nerys Myk
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Dar70 wrote: View Post
Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
So all of the old arcs are still intact?
Except those that aren't.

Less snarky answer: Batman and Green Lantern yes.
True. But they both have interacted with the other characters so there is much that is not rewritten. Still dc made it out as a reboot jumping on point for new readers. I expected ret-conned origins to show up in all issue 1's. Instead we just got issues like any other month. They are all in the middle of stories.
You dont have to start off every reboot with an origin. 52 origins in one month might get a little tedious.

Even the books that are moving forward with out any obvious "rebooting" are free to ignore what they want of the past. Its not that hard not to mention "Big Event X" or Issue #xxx ever again.
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Old September 22 2011, 08:25 PM   #793
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

They made it clear early on that they wouldn't be telling new versions of most characters' origins in the #1s. That's one reason they decline to call it a reboot.
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Old September 22 2011, 08:30 PM   #794
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

@Myaschiev (I think i got your name wrong this time!) they seem to be doing something interesting with the aliens in the DCU 52 Verse this time around. The comment regarding seeing Kori for the first time from that soldier who saw the little kid's cell phone pic of her would indicate at least to me that no one has seen an Tamaranean...or at least not seen one in a while. Maybe wide spread contact has been limited in this continuity...via some kind of Green Lantern quarantine on Earth? I'm reaching incredibly high here but otherwise I got nothing...lol. Adam Strange could be part of a future wave??
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Old September 22 2011, 09:28 PM   #795
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Why bother?

The Andy Diggle Adam Strange story was the best reboot of the character since the horrible Kubert stuff.
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