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General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

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Old August 24 2011, 02:54 PM   #16
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Sovereign class variants?

Fat chance.

The Sovereign-class appeared to follow very quickly after the Galaxy, given what we know about about how often Starfleet seems to upgrade its ship classes (rarely). I've often thought that perhaps the Sovereign-class was out of sequence, hurried into service because the Federation needed a hard-hitting capital ship to compete with the Borg and Dominion.
It might simply be that the Sovereign is not intended to replace or succeed the Galaxy, but instead is intended to replace/succeed some older vessel - say, the Excelsior, which it greatly resembles.

Just because Picard moved from a Galaxy to a Sovereign doesn't mean squat about which class is supposed to follow which. Picard might just as well have been assigned to an Intrepid or a Miranda, and that wouldn't have made those "successors" of the Galaxy class, or even successors of the E-D.

Sisko moved from Danube to Defiant, too...

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Old August 24 2011, 03:29 PM   #17
cwl
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Re: Sovereign class variants?

The profile of the Sovereign class does resemble the Excelsior a bit. The Excelsior class despite several refits was very old by the 2370s so it is logical that Starfleet were thinking about retiring the Excelsiors and the Sovereign class does have some advantages over the Galaxy class in terms of being a flagship.

Aside from being a more modern design with newer technology compared to the Galaxy (which Galaxy refits could probably match with the correct upgrades) the Sovereign class is smaller, sleeker and more manouverable than the Galaxy class. Which would prove very useful in combat against the Borg as it would be harder to target the Sovereign class than the Galaxy class. Clearly it would be difficult to avoid incoming fire in a Galaxy class.
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Old August 24 2011, 06:56 PM   #18
Timo
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Re: Sovereign class variants?

I'm not sure the Galaxy class will be giving up its flagship status any time soon. Certainly there's no proof that the Sovereign would be the inheritor.

Several sources erroneously claim that the NCC-1701-E would be the new Federation Flagship. However, none of the movies featuring that ship support such a claim.

For all we know, moving from the E-D to the E-E was a step down in Picard's career. Which would not be completely surprising, considering how the end of the E-D is somewhat ignominious, and how the first movie featuring the E-E indicated that Picard was in Starfleet disfavor and (along with his ship) all but banished...

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Old August 24 2011, 07:12 PM   #19
David cgc
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Re: Sovereign class variants?

For First Contact, John Eaves did a design for the Miranda-equivalent of the Sovereign, to be Admiral Hayes' ship when it seen in earlier versions of the script. At the end of the design process, the producers started getting cold feet and wanted to see some more alternate designs, just to be absolutely sure they'd made the right call, so Eaves wrote "U.S.S. Enterprise" on the sketches and sent them over, since the other ship had been cut before he had the chance to show the designs to anyone.

Here's a page of sketches.
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Old August 24 2011, 09:04 PM   #20
Timo
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Re: Sovereign class variants?

Also, it would appear that Sovereign was the inspiration for the canon Nova and Prometheus classes, at least insofar as it provided them with a warp engine "look". Those could well be counted as "Sovereign variants", the way the New Orleans would be a Galaxy variant, even though they don't represent the same size range and (for that reason and others) don't fit the same mission class or "ship type", either.

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Old September 22 2011, 10:10 AM   #21
Rocketeer
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Re: Sovereign class variants?

I think, as mentioned by others, that the Sovereign was intended to replace the Excelsior.
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Old September 22 2011, 11:25 AM   #22
Timo
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Re: Sovereign class variants?

,,,Of course, in real life, this would be something of a problem because the Excelsior was established as a commonplace background vessel and something of a workhorse, whereas the Sovereign was a hero vessel and TPTB would thus have been reluctant to "dilute" the heroic value by presenting the newer type in greater numbers or in background roles.

Then again, TOS featured the hero ship type in all sorts of guest and background roles. And the Excelsior, too, was at one stage considered for a hero role. She was first created to be a villain (which may have directly contributed to her less than flattering "bully" image where the grace of Kirk's ship is replaced by the impression of bulging muscles, a thick neck, etc.). But when Kirk lost his hero ship, the existing detailed Excelsior model was a natural candidate for his next heroic ride, until different creative decisions were made.

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Old September 29 2011, 01:40 PM   #23
ReadyAndWilling
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Re: Sovereign class variants?

Ar-Pharazon wrote: View Post
There's the Ronin class, with what look like shuttlebays on the sides of the primary hull.

wow which episode was this in?
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Old September 29 2011, 03:47 PM   #24
C.E. Evans
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Re: Sovereign class variants?

ReadyAndWilling wrote: View Post
Ar-Pharazon wrote: View Post
There's the Ronin class, with what look like shuttlebays on the sides of the primary hull.
wow which episode was this in?
It wasn't in any episode. It's a fan-made design.
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Old September 29 2011, 07:45 PM   #25
cwl
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Re: Sovereign class variants?

she's a beauty^^ one of the best fan designs I've seen in a while.
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Old September 30 2011, 12:20 AM   #26
Ar-Pharazon
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Re: Sovereign class variants?

I believe the creator was on this board many years ago, when it was posted here.

It was a good 10 years ago though, so I could be wrong.

If I hadn't turned my AMT Ent-E into a Romulan BOP, I might've done the Ronin.
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Old September 30 2011, 10:21 PM   #27
Matt4511
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Re: Sovereign class variants?

Timo wrote: View Post
,,,Of course, in real life, this would be something of a problem because the Excelsior was established as a commonplace background vessel and something of a workhorse, whereas the Sovereign was a hero vessel and TPTB would thus have been reluctant to "dilute" the heroic value by presenting the newer type in greater numbers or in background roles.

[Snip]

Timo Saloniemi
Timo, the other problem with viewing the Sovereign as a replacement for the Excelsior, as opposed to the Galaxy, is that they all seem to be capable of filling similar roles — they are large, multi-mission capable explorers and heavy combatants (adjusted for their own eras, of course).

But as you correctly note, by the late 24th Century, the Excelsiors had obviously become a workhorse. If Starfleet sought to replace them en masse by that point, they'd probably design a ship that filled the light cruiser (combat) and general support (peacetime) roles. I see the Nebula and Intrepids as more logical candidates for the ship that will replace the aging Excelsiors by the late 24th century than the large, advanced, heavy-combatant Sovereigns or Galaxies. Excelsiors are just too far down the duty rung to warrant such enormous "replacements."
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Old October 1 2011, 02:06 AM   #28
Ar-Pharazon
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Re: Sovereign class variants?

^ Using the US Navy as an example, ship's roles change over the course of time.

In WWII we still had a large number of batlecruisers & battleships and though they tried updating the Iowa class for modern use, more out of nostalgia I think, they really didn't fit what they needed a ship to do in the 21st century.

Plus they were falling apart, structurally speaking and risked major damage every time they used the 16" guns (USS Defiant?).

Same as what you're saying Matt4511, lighter, quicker ships are the way they're going for the bulk of the fleet.
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Old October 1 2011, 02:22 AM   #29
C.E. Evans
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Re: Sovereign class variants?

Perhaps by the 25th-Century, Sovereign-class ships will be as commonplace as the Excelsior-class was during the 24th-Century.
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Old October 2 2011, 02:34 AM   #30
Mr Silver
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Re: Sovereign class variants?

The only thing I dislike about the Sovereign class is it's limitations for deep space exploration. It's not exactly a ship designed with exploration, diplomacy and scientific discovery in mind. Mind you, neither was the Galaxy class, although there was something friendlier about the Galaxy class design.

The Sovereign could be equipped with all the facilities needed for deep space exploration, but at it's core it's a tactical cruiser built to take a pounding and put up a fight. The sleeker and more muscular design of the ship compared to the likes of the Galaxy class, speaks volumes about it's function (add to that the darker internal design).

Starfleet should build a class of ship that has the scientific facilities of the Nebula class, the fortitude of the Galaxy class, the speed of the Intrepid class and the firepower of the Defiant class. I mean the Prometheus came pretty close, but it just isn't big enough to house a regular crew compliment along with the facilities needed for a ship of exploration.
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