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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old September 6 2011, 09:19 PM   #16
Christopher
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Re: If "classic" Trek had introduced the Borg...

Uxi wrote: View Post
The connection of Borg to V'ger makes a lot of sense, though it doesn't necessarily have to be so.
I don't think it makes any sense at all. It requires ignoring the vast differences between the two. The Borg are hybrids of technology and organic life; V'Ger was pure technology, having no interest in biological organisms and not even being aware that they constituted a form of life. There's no way V'Ger could've been ignorant of that if the Borg had created it. V'Ger was also vastly more advanced and powerful than the Borg, so advanced that it only needed a nudge to ascend to a higher level of existence. The Borg are primitive compared to V'Ger. Really, they have nothing whatsoever in common aside from involving cybernetics. You might as plausibly say that Noonien Soong created V'Ger.
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Old September 6 2011, 09:37 PM   #17
Uxi
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Re: If "classic" Trek had introduced the Borg...

Yeah, if you take that sentence you quoted in isolation away from the context from the rest of the post and then also assume the Borg have always been as they are as of TNG. I think V'ger's connection to the Borg in Q Who could make sense. Obviously far less of any possibility of connection with the Borg of from BoBW and beyond.
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Old September 6 2011, 10:55 PM   #18
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Re: If "classic" Trek had introduced the Borg...

I don't know... given the sheer vastness of the universe, it's vanishingly unlikely that any two entities with no explicit connection are going to have anything to do with each other. It's an idea that should be approached with the greatest of skepticism, not actively sought out.

And I still say even the "Q Who" Borg were primitive compared to the sheer mindboggling advancement of V'Ger's technology. Maybe if the production design for the Borg had been less clunky and hokey-looking, it would've been vaguely plausible, but as it was, no.
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Old September 6 2011, 11:27 PM   #19
Maurice
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Re: If "classic" Trek had introduced the Borg...

I agree with Christopher that the whole idea of the V'ger's Machine Planet being related to the Borg is nonsense, and just a silly attempt to connect every unrelated dot.
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Old September 6 2011, 11:45 PM   #20
Wingsley
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Re: If "classic" Trek had introduced the Borg...

I'll throw in my two cents here FWIW / LOL / etc...

I suspect that the Borg would've been conceptually different in TOS, to suit the sensibilities and general worldviews of both the show's makers and the audience of that time. They woud've been nasty technology scavengers like what we saw in "Q Who", not the totalitarian race-devourers of "The Best of Both Worlds" and later.

If budgetary concerns would've had an effect on the appearance of the Borg, I would think they might've looked a little like a cross between the early Borg of "Q Who" and DOCTOR WHO's Cybermen.

I have always had my doubts, though, about the compatibility of the Borg concept with the STAR TREK Universe, TNG or no TNG. Whether they assimilated the bodies of their victims or not, the notion of a massive race of machine-beings marauding the Galaxy at warp speed for thousands of centuries would suggest to me that there shouldn't be much of the Galaxy left for Kirk and company to explore.
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Old September 6 2011, 11:56 PM   #21
RAMA
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Re: If "classic" Trek had introduced the Borg...

Christopher wrote: View Post
Uxi wrote: View Post
The connection of Borg to V'ger makes a lot of sense, though it doesn't necessarily have to be so.
I don't think it makes any sense at all. It requires ignoring the vast differences between the two. The Borg are hybrids of technology and organic life; V'Ger was pure technology, having no interest in biological organisms and not even being aware that they constituted a form of life. There's no way V'Ger could've been ignorant of that if the Borg had created it. V'Ger was also vastly more advanced and powerful than the Borg, so advanced that it only needed a nudge to ascend to a higher level of existence. The Borg are primitive compared to V'Ger. Really, they have nothing whatsoever in common aside from involving cybernetics. You might as plausibly say that Noonien Soong created V'Ger.
I agree, two totally divergent cultures there...and V'Ger was already a machine people....it may have evolved, but whatever it was, it wasn't a cyborg! The Borg seemed insignificant by comparison to it's technology.

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Old September 7 2011, 03:22 AM   #22
Wingsley
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Re: If "classic" Trek had introduced the Borg...

I agree with Christopher; the Borg could not be connected to V'ger. It would be neat to see a Borg cube get zapped by one of those plasma-lighting bolt weapons, vanishing from existence to become "wall exhibits in Hell". V'ger could easily wipe the Borg out if it cared to.
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Old September 9 2011, 04:01 AM   #23
DeepSpaceWine
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Re: If "classic" Trek had introduced the Borg...

I'm thinking they would have looked like the alien robot race from Time Tunnel "Visitors from Beyond the Stars". That paralleled TOS Season 1 and had a small budget, so I think that's the closest depiction to what TOS Borg would have been like.
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Old September 9 2011, 05:43 AM   #24
YARN
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Re: If "classic" Trek had introduced the Borg...

not to worry, they'll probably show up in the next nuTrek movie...
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Old September 9 2011, 12:45 PM   #25
Maximara
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Re: If "classic" Trek had introduced the Borg...

Uxi wrote: View Post
The connection of Borg to V'ger makes a lot of sense, though it doesn't necessarily have to be so. A shame that the writers in TNG didn't think of it. Course, the change of the Borg after Q'Who from only being interested in technology to one that assimilate everything is the worst offense and entirely within TNG so has other issues.
The strange thing is the Borg apparently assimilated the bases along the Romulan Neutral Zone (stardate 41986.0)...and then went off for a cup of coffee or something. The even weirder part is in Q'Who Picard references the earlier episode. So the Borg were already aware of the Federation's existence.

So just what was the Borg cube that had been supposedly picking up Starfleet bases along the Romulan Neutral Zone like Pokemon doing with itself?
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Old September 9 2011, 01:23 PM   #26
Timo
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Re: If "classic" Trek had introduced the Borg...

The usual stuff?

I mean, why would the Borg be in any particular hurry with Earth, or with anything else for that matter? They're an ancient lot, and if they really wanted to simply conquer everything, they'd already have had time to do it many times over without undue haste.

For all we know, the Borg had been violating UFP assets every twenty years for the past three centuries already, and they simply hadn't been noticed yet - they're fairly secretive like that, and they don't tend to leave witnesses.

Indeed, the Borg may have been more or less regularly visiting Earth before that, doing their "Yeah, still too primitive" checks in wait of interesting technologies to assimilate. Hence the Grey myths..

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Old September 9 2011, 01:45 PM   #27
Anwar
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Re: If "classic" Trek had introduced the Borg...

Maximara wrote: View Post
Uxi wrote: View Post
The connection of Borg to V'ger makes a lot of sense, though it doesn't necessarily have to be so. A shame that the writers in TNG didn't think of it. Course, the change of the Borg after Q'Who from only being interested in technology to one that assimilate everything is the worst offense and entirely within TNG so has other issues.
The strange thing is the Borg apparently assimilated the bases along the Romulan Neutral Zone (stardate 41986.0)...and then went off for a cup of coffee or something. The even weirder part is in Q'Who Picard references the earlier episode. So the Borg were already aware of the Federation's existence.

So just what was the Borg cube that had been supposedly picking up Starfleet bases along the Romulan Neutral Zone like Pokemon doing with itself?
It left, and arrived at J-25 because it was unsatisfied with what it found at the Neutral Zone. Then when Q teleported the Enterprise to J-25 it got curious and wondered how it could do that, and when the databank search it did failed to yield answers it decided to go back to the Federation to see what it missed.

Weird thing is, once they assimilated Picard they'd know that it was Q who did all that but they still wanted to assimilate the Feds. Guess they figured if the Q were interested there may have been something worthwhile about them.
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Old September 9 2011, 01:59 PM   #28
Christopher
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Re: If "classic" Trek had introduced the Borg...

Maximara wrote: View Post
The strange thing is the Borg apparently assimilated the bases along the Romulan Neutral Zone (stardate 41986.0)...and then went off for a cup of coffee or something. The even weirder part is in Q'Who Picard references the earlier episode. So the Borg were already aware of the Federation's existence.

So just what was the Borg cube that had been supposedly picking up Starfleet bases along the Romulan Neutral Zone like Pokemon doing with itself?
The Borg knew about the Feeration even earlier than that, when they assimilated Magnus, Irene, and Annika Hansen in 2356. But the thing to keep in mind is that the galaxy is very, very large and there's a whole lot of stuff in it that has nothing to do with the Federation. The Borg had plenty of other matters closer to home to occupy their attention. The Federation was very, very far away from their territory, so it was low on their list of priorities. Borg space is huge, so it stands to reason that at any given moment, they're waging wars against dozens of civilizations or coalitions strong enough to offer some significant resistance to assimilation. Not to mention the resources and effort they'd have to expend on "domestic" affairs, managing the logistics of keeping such an immense territory operating, transferring resources to where they're needed, etc. Even with a single hive mind controlling it all and smoothly coordinating it without internal dissent, it would be a monumental effort just to keep such a vast entity from collapsing under its own weight. The Collective has a hell of a lot on its mind, so you can't expect it to drop everything to go after some new civilization it's discovered half a galaxy away.

Probably, after they assimilated the Hansens, the Borg decided to send one cube to survey the area around the Federation, perhaps not right away but when they could spare the time. It sampled some stuff around the Neutral Zone and went back to report, and the Borg filed the data away for future reference, but still had plenty of other more immediate matters to contend with. Once a large, powerful Federation vessel showed up closer to Borg territory and then escaped through inexplicable means, though, that probably piqued the Borg's curiosity enough to send a cube to assimilate it.
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Old September 15 2011, 07:00 PM   #29
jgalley
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Re: If "classic" Trek had introduced the Borg...

y'know that part of me that likes to see "little things" connected kinda likes the V'Ger/Borg connection.

but the intelligent part of my brain just can't accept that.

if you have any shred of intelligent thought in your head and look at the info given to us about V'Ger and then what is shown/known about the Borg...even a moron could figure out that there's no way the two are related IN ANY WAY.
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Old September 16 2011, 01:04 AM   #30
Herbert
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Re: If "classic" Trek had introduced the Borg...

The idea of a connection between the Borg and Vejur originated with a joke made by Gene Roddenberry during an interview shortly after "Q Who?." He joked that the planet of living machines might be the Borg's homeworld.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Vejur

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