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Old September 9 2011, 05:54 PM   #301
Nerys Myk
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

TV has both arc based and stand alone shows. Though the stand alones are getting less common. The Law and Orders were the most sucessfull of recent stand alones. I guess CSI are stand alones. Haven't watched enough to be sure. Many shows are a mix ( especially sit coms) with sub plots connecting what are mostly stand alones main plots.

The season analogy tends to fall apart because there usually isn't a break in comic production like there is in TV.
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Old September 9 2011, 05:56 PM   #302
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Buffy took a traditional television style hiatus between season's eight and nine (which the first issue is coming out next week) but yeah I understand. They're like paper TV without the need for stupid hiatuses and re-runs are usually widely available in comic store back issue bins and of course TPB (which are like DVD's). In fact with the extra features now included in some of the hardcover releases they pretty much like DVD's.

I wasn't meaning my analogy to be a sound one, but just to describe in relation to writing for trades and on occasion comics do stand alone stories as well.
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Old September 9 2011, 06:04 PM   #303
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
TV has both arc based and stand alone shows. Though the stand alones are getting less common. The Law and Orders were the most sucessfull of recent stand alones. I guess CSI are stand alones. Haven't watched enough to be sure. Many shows are a mix ( especially sit coms) with sub plots connecting what are mostly stand alones main plots.
See, the big difference between Law and Order and a comic book is that Law and Order is about three to six times longer, depending on how the comic is paced. So to get the just the equivalent of a Law and Order episode, let alone the story density of a film or heaven forfend a novel even then you need three issues.

I mean, yeah, back in the day they wrote eight-pagers that were still good comics, but they're not good in a really meaningful way, I'd guess. Like the Lois Lane books I adore, they're good, but in an entirely different way (arguably a "bad" way) that only appeals to niche-within-the-niche nerds like me.

The only standalones I can think of that would be taken as fully realized are probably Swamp Thing books, specifically "The Anatomy Lesson" and "Rite of Spring,"* but probably some others I've forgotten. The lesson there, really, is only that Alan Moore can do anything, except not write about rape, and avoid contorting conversations into weird things no one would ever say in order to support his visual segues.

*ETA: "The Anatomy Lesson" is fine. It's really great, actually, but I don't know why people talk it up as if it was the greatest comic ever made up till that point (clearly people who say this had not been reading Jim Starlin). But "Rite of Spring"? You'd never expect a story that is entirely, exclusively, about a man-plant fucking a platinum blonde with a psychic potato to be just about the most beautiful thing ever drawn, but there it is. Read it, if you never have.
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Old September 9 2011, 06:17 PM   #304
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Myasishchev wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
TV has both arc based and stand alone shows. Though the stand alones are getting less common. The Law and Orders were the most sucessfull of recent stand alones. I guess CSI are stand alones. Haven't watched enough to be sure. Many shows are a mix ( especially sit coms) with sub plots connecting what are mostly stand alones main plots.
See, the big difference between Law and Order and a comic book is that Law and Order is about three to six times longer, depending on how the comic is paced. So to get the just the equivalent of a Law and Order episode, let alone the story density of a film or heaven forfend a novel even then you need three issues.

I mean, yeah, back in the day they wrote eight-pagers that were still good comics, but they're not good in a really meaningful way, I'd guess. Like the Lois Lane books I adore, they're good, but in an entirely different way (arguably a "bad" way) that only appeals to niche-within-the-niche nerds like me.

The only standalones I can think of that would be taken as fully realized are probably Swamp Thing books. And Alan Moore can do anything, except not write about rape.
I agree its about pacing. You can tell a good story in 8 pages, 20 or 1000 if you know how. I think most L&Os can be told in a single issue. Mostly they're taking heads. Movies, novels. Yeah more than a single issue. But comics aren't really any of those.
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Old September 9 2011, 06:23 PM   #305
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

That's true. I wonder if defaulting to using other media to interpret comics is probably going about it all wrong in the first place, now.

I still want the 1000 page story. It's got to be better. There's more!
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Old September 9 2011, 06:28 PM   #306
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

It's not wrong if that is indeed what the publishers are doing. They're using the terminology themselves all the time now. Really though I don't think it matters very much.
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Old September 9 2011, 06:34 PM   #307
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
It's not wrong if that is indeed what the publishers are doing. They're using the terminology themselves all the time now. Really though I don't think it matters very much.
Co-opting the terms is fine. (though comic books have their own terms) but you cant write or pace a comic book like a movie or TV show.
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Old September 9 2011, 06:38 PM   #308
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
It's not wrong if that is indeed what the publishers are doing. They're using the terminology themselves all the time now. Really though I don't think it matters very much.
Co-opting the terms is fine. (though comic books have their own terms) but you cant write or pace a comic book like a movie or TV show.
I could, but that'd be a really long comic. 24 panels for every second of action? Even Bendis would probably get fed up with that.
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Old September 9 2011, 07:14 PM   #309
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Myasishchev wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
It's not wrong if that is indeed what the publishers are doing. They're using the terminology themselves all the time now. Really though I don't think it matters very much.
Co-opting the terms is fine. (though comic books have their own terms) but you cant write or pace a comic book like a movie or TV show.
I could, but that'd be a really long comic. 24 panels for every second of action? Even Bendis would probably get fed up with that.
His wet dream is 24 panels for every second of dialog.
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Old September 9 2011, 07:37 PM   #310
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

I don't think anyone is saying that you could write a comic book as a television series and that wasn't the basis of my analogy. There are however similarities or else the creators wouldn't be using the terminology in the first place.



Back to the 52 verse though...is any one else finding the Purple Lady "mystery" a little lame? It doesn't interest me whatsoever and seems like a lame back door plot in case they want to abandon this relaunch at any given time. I base that on the fact that the lady told Barry in Flashpoint #5 that she needed his help to "fix" the timelines. To me I think she is one of the monitors disguised.
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Old September 9 2011, 07:47 PM   #311
Nerys Myk
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
I don't think anyone is saying that you could write a comic book as a television series and that wasn't the basis of my analogy. There are however similarities or else the creators wouldn't be using the terminology in the first place.
.
They use the terminology because it makes comics sound more "respectable" and TV/Movies are their "holy grail".
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Old September 9 2011, 08:05 PM   #312
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
I don't think anyone is saying that you could write a comic book as a television series and that wasn't the basis of my analogy. There are however similarities or else the creators wouldn't be using the terminology in the first place.



Back to the 52 verse though...is any one else finding the Purple Lady "mystery" a little lame? It doesn't interest me whatsoever and seems like a lame back door plot in case they want to abandon this relaunch at any given time. I base that on the fact that the lady told Barry in Flashpoint #5 that she needed his help to "fix" the timelines. To me I think she is one of the monitors disguised.
Oh, yeah.

It's the Time Trapper. Or at least, I'd bet a coke it was the Time Trapper. Purple's a giveaway. But you can't have a Time Trapper without it being someone we know and are surprised to see become to Time Trapper, so bonus crazy prediction: it's Iris West.

The alternative to a back-door unboot is that she's going to be the focus of a time-travel heavy crossover event. Because everyone loved Flashpoint. Didn't they? Bueller?
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Old September 9 2011, 08:06 PM   #313
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Fair enough, although if TV really was their holy grail you'd think we would have got a half decent live action adaption by now

Yeah Time Trapper was Temporal Flux's theory right off the bat. It makes the most sense. Time travel seems closed off now as well given one of the teaser statements and what happened in Vanishing Point. I guess she is the linchpin to restore things if they want.
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Old September 9 2011, 08:28 PM   #314
Nerys Myk
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

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Fair enough, although if TV really was their holy grail you'd think we would have got a half decent live action adaption by now

Yeah Time Trapper was Temporal Flux's theory right off the bat. It makes the most sense. Time travel seems closed off now as well given one of the teaser statements and what happened in Vanishing Point. I guess she is the linchpin to restore things if they want.
Like I said writig comics isn't the same as writing TV ( or movies) very few writers have made the transistion. Even the guys from TV who "slum" in comic can't always adjust to the medium. Different skill sets.

As for Purple Lady, she's probably the impetus for the mext megacrossover,
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Old September 9 2011, 08:40 PM   #315
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Broccoli wrote: View Post
Isn't the "Earth One" graphic novels DC's newest attempt to ape Marvel's Ultimate line?

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That's true, but it lasted nearly a decade. A decade is practically an eternity in comic book time.
Erm...it lasted three years and had only two titles (one of which came out irregularly) before being folded.
I was talking about the Ultimate line. I was commenting on the first point that the Ultimate Line is kind of a mess now and Ultimatum was used to fix that.
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