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Old September 9 2011, 04:09 AM   #31
Guy Gardener
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Re: Why did Chakotay Choose to be with seven instead of janeway?

Smellincoffee wrote: View Post
Because a relationship between two middle-aged adults wouldn't do much for the ratings, but any scene with Seven -- especially a romantic one -- would.
I spent 5 years following Sally Filed manbagging a succession of silverfoxes on Brothers and Sisters.

Apparently "Dilf" is a thing.

But the Dilf they were talking about was obviously a GDIF.

GDILF?

Gandalf?

Is there anyway ever that Lord of the Rings is not blatantly homoerotic?
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Old September 9 2011, 04:14 AM   #32
starlitegirl
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Re: Why did Chakotay Choose to be with seven instead of janeway?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Is there anyway ever that Lord of the Rings is not blatantly homoerotic?
Now I have to watch and see if this is true. I never saw it, but I'm not given to think of or see those things. In fact, despite having a homosexual brother, I never ever see these things. He sees them, and I completely miss them.
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Old September 9 2011, 06:53 AM   #33
froot
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Re: Why did Chakotay Choose to be with seven instead of janeway?

Fang66 wrote: View Post
The question is ludicrously stupid. Choice A hot cyborg babe, choice B frumpy and grumpy general Janeway. The real question should be why did 7 choose Chakotay instead of one of the male crewmen who actually produced testosterone.
These ass-backwards priorities would work on a character that's a 13-year-old kid in our time, but since these are mature adults who live in the enlightened 24th century where hopefully Looks (and perceived amounts of testosterone) Aren't Everything, I'm going to go ahead and say the question isn't what's ludicrously stupid here.

exodus wrote: View Post
I honestly think it was meant as an inside joke and big "F-U" to Mulgrew for not allowing Janeway to have an on going romantic interest like they wanted. I think they wanted to get Janeway & Chakotay together for a long, long time and Mulgrew heatedly refused every time. The writers knew J/C was part of the dynamtic that could have improved the show and brought in more viewers. So their answer was to Mulgrew was, then Janeway will never have him and paired him up with Seven instead. So because Mulgrew wanted Janeway to be all career, a career is now all she has.
Plus it being the last ep., Mulgrew couldn't debate it.
This is all just made-up. KM's said over and over again she A) helped with "Endgame" and B) Likes "Endgame," even if the fans don't, and C) Likes the idea of C/7. It's Ryan and Beltran who usually comment on how C/7 was too out-of-left-field for them.

EDIT: The writers were clearly pushing for J/C and she pushed back, but I doubt they'd want to get rid of perfectly good UST by making J/C openly get together any time before the end anyway.
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Old September 9 2011, 07:28 AM   #34
Fang66
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Re: Why did Chakotay Choose to be with seven instead of janeway?

froot wrote: View Post
These ass-backwards priorities would work on a character that's a 13-year-old kid in our time, but since these are mature adults who live in the enlightened 24th century where hopefully Looks (and perceived amounts of testosterone) Aren't Everything, I'm going to go ahead and say the question isn't what's ludicrously stupid here.
Rubbish, pure sexual attraction is a major theme of Star Trek in the 23rd and 24th centuries. Biology won't change in 2 or 3 hundred years. 7 is much more physically attractive than Janeway so unless 7 has some major and I mean major character flaws then it is beyond ludicrous to think that Chakotay would actually even consider the sour faced hag Janeway over 7.
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Old September 9 2011, 08:22 AM   #35
Guy Gardener
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Re: Why did Chakotay Choose to be with seven instead of janeway?

24th century humans live comfortably well into their 2nd century.

Janeway and Chakotay are kids.

"Starfleet" is something that kids do.

One can argue that she's wasted her child bearing years pursuing a career, but I would like to counter argue that if kathryn can still comfortably have children into her 90s, that Janeway is in no rush to find a man to settle down with or ride like a cowgirl.
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Old September 9 2011, 09:08 PM   #36
JanewayRulz!
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Re: Why did Chakotay Choose to be with seven instead of janeway?

The thing that kills me is that Chakotay was never going the extra mile for Seven during her years on the ship. He was ready to drop her during (IIRC) "Dark Frontier", "Infinite Regress" and "Imperfection", when Janeway wasn't. He even admitted in "Hope and Fear that Janeway saw more in her than he could. For him in that last ep to all of a sudden say "WOW, lets do lunch." just seems so out of character.

Then again, for Seven to reciprocate so easily after 4 years of solitude, THAT too seems unlikely.

Speaking of unlikely, how about going from a problem where a strong emotion could shut down her cortical node and kill her without multiple difficult surgical interventions, to a problem that can be healed in one afternoon in sickbay. No need for post op recovery either since she scheduled her date for the same day.

I think the real problem was that between Captain Janeway and Admiral Janeway, there was nothing for C & 7 to "do" in "Endgame"... so TPTB put them into a side story where they (along with Tuvok and 22 other crew members) inspired the Admiral to change history.

The real disservice in this story is that was "all" their characters did.

Quite an igmoninious end to a character (7) that was assailed for taking the lion's share of story lines over the previous 4 years.
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Old September 10 2011, 12:41 AM   #37
Markira
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Re: Why did Chakotay Choose to be with seven instead of janeway?

The part that really makes me is when Chakotay tells Seven he wants to be in "transporter range" of her.
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Old September 10 2011, 01:13 AM   #38
starlitegirl
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Re: Why did Chakotay Choose to be with seven instead of janeway?

The amusing part about this discussion is that Chakotay is not even in the same League as Janeway. He's best off with a Borg just gaining her footing as a human that only recently discovered she had a six year relationship in a dream reality.

Janeway belongs with the guy from Workforce. I wanted him to stay on the ship. But nooooo. That wouldn't be proper. Egads. 30k LY from home and they're concerned with these things? With all the other members they had that weren't part of the fleet, they could have easily worked around that. Almost wish they didn't even put her in the adorable relationship. BOO!
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Old September 10 2011, 02:38 AM   #39
Guy Gardener
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Re: Why did Chakotay Choose to be with seven instead of janeway?

Funny how Jim Read was back every other week to do Charmed.

If he had accepted a reoccurring role on voyager as Mr Janeway, which would have overlapped surely... If the casting directors of both Voyager and Charmed requested that Jim was on set on the same day and the same hour, which show would he acquiesce to?

But Voyager never called no matter how much he waited by the phone pining.
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Old September 10 2011, 05:03 AM   #40
antiquityscion
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Re: Why did Chakotay Choose to be with seven instead of janeway?

I never liked the Chakotay\Seven romance, either. They had absolutely no chemistry at all. Personally, I thought Chakotay and Janeway would have been a better fit.

I mean I have tried to rationalize it in that in Unity, Chakotay fell for a blonde human Borg girl, Riley Frazier. It is possible that maybe Seven and Chakotay read each other's thoughts like Chakotay and Frazier. But they never explored that at all. And again, there just was no chemistry between the two.

That, and the fact that Chakotay tried to KILL Seven when they first met!

On Seven's end, the love of her life in Uni-matrix Zero, KoroK, could have had more stories, and they could have reunited somehow, with a good script. Would have made more sense.
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Old September 10 2011, 09:20 PM   #41
exodus
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Re: Why did Chakotay Choose to be with seven instead of janeway?

Fang66 wrote: View Post
froot wrote: View Post
These ass-backwards priorities would work on a character that's a 13-year-old kid in our time, but since these are mature adults who live in the enlightened 24th century where hopefully Looks (and perceived amounts of testosterone) Aren't Everything, I'm going to go ahead and say the question isn't what's ludicrously stupid here.
Rubbish, pure sexual attraction is a major theme of Star Trek in the 23rd and 24th centuries. Biology won't change in 2 or 3 hundred years. 7 is much more physically attractive than Janeway so unless 7 has some major and I mean major character flaws then it is beyond ludicrous to think that Chakotay would actually even consider the sour faced hag Janeway over 7.
Recognizing prejudice is also a major theme in Trek.
Kes loved Neelix, Dax loved Worf, Leeta loves Rom.
Trek has shown several times that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and a doesn't determine relationships.
Especially in this day a age, woman Janeway's age are considered the new 30.
"A hag?"
Seriously?? What is this, a POPEYE cartoon?
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Last edited by exodus; September 10 2011 at 09:33 PM.
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Old September 11 2011, 01:34 AM   #42
exodus
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Re: Why did Chakotay Choose to be with seven instead of janeway?

froot wrote: View Post

exodus wrote: View Post
I honestly think it was meant as an inside joke and big "F-U" to Mulgrew for not allowing Janeway to have an on going romantic interest like they wanted. I think they wanted to get Janeway & Chakotay together for a long, long time and Mulgrew heatedly refused every time. The writers knew J/C was part of the dynamtic that could have improved the show and brought in more viewers. So their answer was to Mulgrew was, then Janeway will never have him and paired him up with Seven instead. So because Mulgrew wanted Janeway to be all career, a career is now all she has.
Plus it being the last ep., Mulgrew couldn't debate it.
This is all just made-up.
Yeah, it is.
I thought the question being asked was hypothetical?
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Old September 11 2011, 01:48 AM   #43
Kass18
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Re: Why did Chakotay Choose to be with seven instead of janeway?

The whole thing just disappoints me greatly...J/C forever. Thank god for fanfiction
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Old September 11 2011, 01:57 AM   #44
JanewayRulz!
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Re: Why did Chakotay Choose to be with seven instead of janeway?

Kass18 wrote: View Post
... J/C forever. Thank god for fanfiction
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Old September 11 2011, 02:19 AM   #45
Guy Gardener
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Re: Why did Chakotay Choose to be with seven instead of janeway?

Braga (helped) write this episode.

Braga was sleeping with Jeri Ryan at this point in time.

10 thoughts.

1. This is exactly how Braga pulled Jeri Ryan.

2 This is how Braga wished he had pulled Ryan.

3. This is misdirection so that future boyfriends of Ryan, or assholes trying to pull his girlfriend will pull her wrong using this 'how to' method.

4. This was Bermans C-game to pull a hot leggy blond so that Jeri would appreciate that he had used his A-game to pull her.

5. This was a repull by proxy, because Jeri was beginning to pull away and he was using Beltran like a muppet to assure her that he was still quite into her.

6. Braga was pulling away and hoped to unload Jeri on Beltran, so that he could trick her into pulling Beltran and he would win the break up.

7. This was punishment. Braga forced the pull because Jeri would never put the cap back on their toothpaste and it was ruining the bathroom counter top.

8. Sevens brain surgery was a metaphor for the vasectomy she kept insisting that Braga should have if he loved her and he shouldn't have pulled her in the first place if his swimmers were still pulling out of their starting blocks.

9. This was a snapshot pull for prosperity since in his old age no one might ever believe that he had pulled that.

10. This WAS a Valentines pull.
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