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Old September 6 2011, 06:57 PM   #316
Astraea
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

TheLobes wrote: View Post
Do you guys consider those books to be 'great novels' or think they are well written?
Much of the books are well-written (there are specific scenes and chapters I'm thinking of - not sure if I should spoil them, because a lot of the examples are from ADWD.) I'm withholding judgment on whether it's a "great fantasy epic" until I see how the final two books conclude - the first three are certainly tremendous, but a great build-up doesn't mean anything if you can't provide a satisfying ending.
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Old September 6 2011, 07:29 PM   #317
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

TheLobes wrote: View Post
Do you guys consider those books to be 'great novels' or think they are well written?
They're very good reads, and go quite quickly for their size. Even the weakest of them is the sort of novel you can find yourself plunging through over a dozen chapters in an afternoon.

As literature they have a few standard fantasy ticks - Martin must dutifully spend a great deal of time explaining heraldry, or what so-and-so is eating - and the strength of their plotting loosens as the series progresses, but it's the best non-Pratchett fantasy I've read in a long time.
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Old September 6 2011, 11:42 PM   #318
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

The last two books could've definitely gotten some more editing/fat-trimming out of them, I think.

(Speaking of which, is it just me, or are almost all of the Lords This-and-That fat and/or huge beyond belief? Especially in ADWD, it seemed like every non-POV/non-major male character was a porker!)

But yes, all in all... pretty good reads.

Cheers,
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Old September 7 2011, 02:03 AM   #319
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

TheLobes wrote: View Post
Do you guys consider those books to be 'great novels' or think they are well written?
I consider them to be great novels, no doubt about it.
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Old September 7 2011, 08:38 PM   #320
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

I just read "The Eye of the World" by Robert Jordan... I don't read a lot of fantasy, but if that's what we're comparing GRRM to, then A Song of Ice and Fire is a goddamn masterpiece.
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Old September 7 2011, 10:41 PM   #321
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Colonel Midnight wrote: View Post
The last two books could've definitely gotten some more editing/fat-trimming out of them, I think.

(Speaking of which, is it just me, or are almost all of the Lords This-and-That fat and/or huge beyond belief? Especially in ADWD, it seemed like every non-POV/non-major male character was a porker!)

But yes, all in all... pretty good reads.

Cheers,
-CM-
I agree about the need for editing in the last two books; in particular, Tyrion and Dany's chapters needed some serious trimming in ADWD.

But I'm not sure about the comment about ADWD having a large amount of large lords. Aside from Wyman Manderly, Tyrion's lord who died of the pale mare, and Doran Martell, who else is really fat? (Come to think of it, Doran Martell might not even be fat - I'm only thinking of him as such because he's got such bad gout, which is traditionally associated with overindulgence.) Any other large characters were introduced long before ADWD: Illyrio, Sam, possibly Varys, Robert Baratheon, and Lollys (and none of them are lords except Robert, who's obviously not in ADWD.)
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Old September 7 2011, 10:55 PM   #322
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Ok, this story has me in stitches!

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Old September 7 2011, 11:08 PM   #323
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Mutenroshi wrote: View Post
Ok, this story has me in stitches!

Here's the beginning of this story:
http://www.irishcentral.com/ent/Iris...128428493.html

Apparently she made a big deal out of it before walking out, despite being cast probably as King's Landing whore #4 or something like that.

Getting mentioned in relation to GoT will probably be a highlight of her acting career.
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Old September 8 2011, 05:32 AM   #324
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

I consider them great so far, looking forward to seeing how things wrap up and what ties together...
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Old September 8 2011, 05:37 AM   #325
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Does anyone else think that Septa Lemore could be Lyanna Stark?
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Old September 8 2011, 11:05 AM   #326
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Lyanna died in Ned's arms. So no.
I expect him to be able to recognize his own sister.
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Old September 8 2011, 01:16 PM   #327
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Yeah, no. Maybe more going on there than we know so far, but that's too much. Ned confirmed that one, they had a recognizable body to bury, etc.

Series started off really tight, but these last two were pretty loose, wandering tales. Needed to be edited down to 1 book that had a better cohesion. Killing people just to spend pages introducing new people, just to kill them, seems to waste a lot of time, and doesn't appear to be moving the story forward. Feels like the middle seasons of Lost, before they decided to regroup and head for the finale. Hopefully, GRRM will do similarly and tighten up the story as he heads for the big finish...
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Old September 8 2011, 01:20 PM   #328
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

I like the begining, with all the great fammilies, Stark, Lannister, Baratheon, Targeryan looked interesting untill the writer began to kill them off one by one.

With out Ned, Benjen, Robb, Jon - the Starks aren't really that interesting.

With out Joffrey, Robert, Tywin and Jamies hand - neither of Baratheon or Lannisters have much else to offer.

With out Catelyn and Lysa the house of Tully became none exsistant.

And there was to little of Tyrells or Martells in the story to make anything of them.


And way to many battles are left behind the pages.



One of the thing that writer have missed in this story is the "Resurrection".
1. Writer never described how dead beeing brougt back to live beyond the wall.
2. Beric Dondarrion - every majore character in the book seem to be ignoring the part where this guy was resurrected multiplied times. No one is that ignorant.
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Old September 8 2011, 04:50 PM   #329
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Greyjoys will own everyone in the end. It is known.

1. Writer never described how dead beeing brougt back to live beyond the wall.
Others' magic. Martin also never described why the seasons in this world are of random length. When people ask him what is the reason for that, he says "Magic".
2. Beric Dondarrion - every majore character in the book seem to be ignoring the part where this guy was resurrected multiplied times. No one is that ignorant.
His followers in BwB know that he was resurrected multiple times. Most of the people in Westeros do not believe in magic or believe that it died with the dragons.
There's a scene in ACOK I think, where Alliser Thorne arrives at court in King's Landing, presents the rotted hand of the wight and says that the dead rise beyond the Wall. No one, including Tyrion, believes him and the joke advice he gets from Tyrion is "Bury your dead deeper so they won't rise".
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Old September 8 2011, 07:53 PM   #330
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Agreed... the "resurrections" are being written off by most as fog and rumor of war, like "Renly's Ghost".
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