RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,835
Posts: 5,473,346
Members: 25,039
Currently online: 372
Newest member: noroadcordova

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: Covenant
By: Michelle on Nov 22

Two Official Starships Collection Previews
By: T'Bonz on Nov 21

Saldana: Women Issues In Hollywood
By: T'Bonz on Nov 21

Shatner Book Kickstarter
By: T'Bonz on Nov 20

Trek Original Series Slippers
By: T'Bonz on Nov 19

Hemsworth Is Sexiest Man Alive
By: T'Bonz on Nov 19

Trek Business Card Cases
By: T'Bonz on Nov 17

February IDW Publishing Trek Comics
By: T'Bonz on Nov 17

Retro Review: The Siege of AR-558
By: Michelle on Nov 15

Trevco Full Bleed Uniform T-Shirts
By: T'Bonz on Nov 14


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 7 2011, 05:03 PM   #211
captcalhoun
Admiral
 
Location: everywhere
Re: Charting the Novel-verse

titanic: the ship sinks.

Downfall: Hitler dies.

Soylent Green: it's people.

Empire Strikes Back: Vader is Luke's dad.
captcalhoun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 7 2011, 07:40 PM   #212
Relayer1
Commodore
 
Relayer1's Avatar
 
Location: The Black Country, England
Re: Charting the Novel-verse

Christopher wrote: View Post
Mainer82 wrote: View Post
I'm wondering if there are any other book series or authors that follow David's style of writing and fairly good respect to the ST canon?
Well, we've all got our own writing styles, but we're all obligated to respect the canon -- just part of the rules of writing tie-ins -- and a lot of us work tons of continuity references into our books. However, the majority of the novels published in the past decade have had a shared continuity that Crucible is not a part of, because the decision was made to ground that trilogy solely in the original (and animated) series.
What are the 'out of continuity' elements of the Crucible books ? They are on my to be read pile at the moment.

And why would a a decision be made for a recent novel to deliberately violate continuity ?
Relayer1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 7 2011, 08:12 PM   #213
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Charting the Novel-verse

Relayer1 wrote: View Post
What are the 'out of continuity' elements of the Crucible books ? They are on my to be read pile at the moment.

And why would a a decision be made for a recent novel to deliberately violate continuity ?
Let me be clear: Crucible, like all tie-in novels, is consistent with the continuity of canonical, onscreen Star Trek. It was simply decided to take it in a different direction than other novels have taken when it comes to things beyond established screen continuity. For instance, its version of the events in the years following Star Trek: The Motion Picture is incompatible with what my novel Ex Machina established, and its version of the elderly Admiral McCoy's life in the 24th century differs from what various other novels and short stories have established. This is because Crucible was meant to be a celebration of TOS itself, one that would be accessible to readers who aren't necessarily familiar with the broader prose continuity.

And differing from that prose continuity isn't "violating" anything, because that continuity is optional, not obligatory. It's something that various writers and editors have chosen to build between them, but it was never intended to prevent alternative paths from being taken. As it stands, it's just one of several alternative continuities in the books, alongside the Shatner novels, Crucible, and Diane Duane's concluding Rihannsu novels, plus assorted standalone novels and stories. Not to mention the distinct continuities of other tie-ins like the IDW and TokyoPop comics and Star Trek Online.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 7 2011, 09:24 PM   #214
Relayer1
Commodore
 
Relayer1's Avatar
 
Location: The Black Country, England
Re: Charting the Novel-verse

Christopher wrote: View Post
Relayer1 wrote: View Post
What are the 'out of continuity' elements of the Crucible books ? They are on my to be read pile at the moment.

And why would a a decision be made for a recent novel to deliberately violate continuity ?
Let me be clear: Crucible, like all tie-in novels, is consistent with the continuity of canonical, onscreen Star Trek. It was simply decided to take it in a different direction than other novels have taken when it comes to things beyond established screen continuity. For instance, its version of the events in the years following Star Trek: The Motion Picture is incompatible with what my novel Ex Machina established, and its version of the elderly Admiral McCoy's life in the 24th century differs from what various other novels and short stories have established. This is because Crucible was meant to be a celebration of TOS itself, one that would be accessible to readers who aren't necessarily familiar with the broader prose continuity.

And differing from that prose continuity isn't "violating" anything, because that continuity is optional, not obligatory. It's something that various writers and editors have chosen to build between them, but it was never intended to prevent alternative paths from being taken. As it stands, it's just one of several alternative continuities in the books, alongside the Shatner novels, Crucible, and Diane Duane's concluding Rihannsu novels, plus assorted standalone novels and stories. Not to mention the distinct continuities of other tie-ins like the IDW and TokyoPop comics and Star Trek Online.
Fair point, and thanks for the answer.

I just find it odd that novels are being released that deliberately ignore the current novel continuity (note I don't say canon !) when they could easily be written to 'fit in'.

Obviously contradictory 'old' novels are unavoidable, and presumably can be filed as 'Myriad Universes'.

My problem with it is probably just symptomatic of my anally retentive fanboy mentality...
Relayer1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 7 2011, 09:39 PM   #215
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Charting the Novel-verse

Relayer1 wrote: View Post
I just find it odd that novels are being released that deliberately ignore the current novel continuity (note I don't say canon !) when they could easily be written to 'fit in'.
Because continuity isn't the reason we tell stories. We tell stories to explore interesting ideas. It can be interesting to explore an evolving, interconnected continuity, but the continuity is a means to that end, not an end in itself. If someone has a great idea for a story that can't fit with that continuity, they shouldn't be forbidden to tell it.

And Crucible could not have been written to fit the main novel continuity. Its storyline contains elements that take the characters and their lives in very different directions than what the other novels have done. It's a huge, epic, sweeping story, and its author and editor decided that it needed the freedom to strike its own course -- grounded in canon, of course, but otherwise not held back by anything else. It's what the story needed, and that's the priority.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 7 2011, 09:48 PM   #216
Relayer1
Commodore
 
Relayer1's Avatar
 
Location: The Black Country, England
Re: Charting the Novel-verse

Christopher wrote: View Post

Because continuity isn't the reason we tell stories. We tell stories to explore interesting ideas. It can be interesting to explore an evolving, interconnected continuity, but the continuity is a means to that end, not an end in itself. If someone has a great idea for a story that can't fit with that continuity, they shouldn't be forbidden to tell it.

And Crucible could not have been written to fit the main novel continuity. Its storyline contains elements that take the characters and their lives in very different directions than what the other novels have done.
...is a pretty compelling reason !

Not having read it yet it is hard to judge if it could have been made to fit continuity and still told an equally good story.

Last edited by Relayer1; September 8 2011 at 09:27 AM.
Relayer1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 10 2011, 02:49 AM   #217
Stevil2001
Rear Admiral
 
Stevil2001's Avatar
 
Location: 2010
Re: Charting the Novel-verse

The way Provenance of Shadows ends, at least, definitely couldn't work and would be much less powerful if it fit in with "the novel continuity."
__________________
"I don't like adventure. I'm a stay-at-home-and-read kind of guy."
Science's Less Accurate Grandmother
Stevil2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 20 2012, 02:15 PM   #218
Yevetha
Commodore
 
Re: Charting the Novel-verse

Chrisptopher posted:
Because continuity isn't the reason we tell stories. We tell stories to explore interesting ideas. It can be interesting to explore an evolving, interconnected continuity, but the continuity is a means to that end, not an end in itself. If someone has a great idea for a story that can't fit with that continuity, they shouldn't be forbidden to tell it.
There is always a way to make the idea, you might just need a diferent sctor of space or a different era, thats all.
Yevetha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 20 2012, 03:00 PM   #219
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Charting the Novel-verse

Yevetha wrote: View Post
Chrisptopher posted:
Because continuity isn't the reason we tell stories. We tell stories to explore interesting ideas. It can be interesting to explore an evolving, interconnected continuity, but the continuity is a means to that end, not an end in itself. If someone has a great idea for a story that can't fit with that continuity, they shouldn't be forbidden to tell it.
There is always a way to make the idea, you might just need a diferent sctor of space or a different era, thats all.
There are so many things wrong with that assumption that it would take all morning to go into it. But did you miss the part where I said continuity is not an end in itself? It is not something that writers should be required to obey. That's an arbitrary limitation that has nothing to do with quality. Saying that all stories need to be kept slavishly consistent with each other is like saying that all stories need to be musicals or that all stories need explicit sex scenes. Continuity is a stylistic option. It's a technique that works well in some contexts but absolutely should not be the only permitted approach.

The writers and editors developed the interconnected Trek novel continuity because it was fun and interesting, and because we wanted to pay tribute to other authors' works we respected and play with their ideas and characters further. But if the best way to tell a story is to move in a separate direction from that continuity, then it would be wrong to force that story into a mold it doesn't belong in.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 20 2012, 03:34 PM   #220
Yevetha
Commodore
 
Re: Charting the Novel-verse

But did you miss the part where I said continuity is not an end in itself?
Its not, but it keeps things straight.
It is not something that writers should be required to obey.
I dont have that expectation unless they are working for a franchise.

Saying that all stories need to be kept slavishly consistent with each other is like saying that all stories need to be musicals or that all stories need explicit sex scenes.
Not slavishly, i belive in retcons.

But if the best way to tell a story is to move in a separate direction from that continuity, then it would be wrong to force that story into a mold it doesn't belong in.
__________________
Unless you want to do it with certain charcters or planets continuity is not an issue.
Yevetha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22 2012, 11:26 PM   #221
Yevetha
Commodore
 
Re: Charting the Novel-verse

Is Left Hand of Destiny canonically consistent with the following books: Diplomatic Impalusibility, Gorkon Trilogy, A Stich at a Time, Taking Wing, Orion's Hounds, Eatching the Clock and The Buried Age?
Yevetha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22 2012, 11:32 PM   #222
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Charting the Novel-verse

Yes, The Left Hand of Destiny is in the same continuity as most modern Trek novels. It is, after all, part of the DS9 post-finale series, albeit a peripheral part. (Although there is an unintentional contradiction between the way LHoD and the Christie Golden Voyager novels depict the Klingon planet Boreth. LHoD portrays it as a frozen waste with no indigenous life, but the VGR novels depict a jungle where the Klingons conduct hunting rituals. I think those can be reconciled if one assumes the jungle is a terraformed enclave; if all the life was brought in artificially, then it can be reconciled with the lack of indigenous life asserted in LHoD.)
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22 2012, 11:33 PM   #223
Yevetha
Commodore
 
Re: Charting the Novel-verse

How does Full Circle depict Boreth?
Yevetha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22 2012, 11:43 PM   #224
Deranged Nasat
Vice Admiral
 
Deranged Nasat's Avatar
 
Location: I am here. You are here too. Yes.
Re: Charting the Novel-verse

We're implicitly directed to gloss over the contradictory appearances of Boreth in Spirit Walk Book One, which while building directly on The Farther Shore also references the events of The Left Hand of Destiny. So the later Christie Golden books explicitly acknowledge that LHoD happened. No explanation is given for the climate portrayals; we're supposedly just meant to shrug it off as one of those things that happens. But I like Christopher's suggestion.

"This is our most sacred planet! I want to go hunting there!"

"But, Chancellor, there aren't any lifeforms on Boreth"

"Yes, I desire to hunt in the jungles of sacred Boreth".

"But Chancellor!"

*Chancellor gives meaningful look*

"Sigh. Yes, Chancellor. As you command".
__________________
We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile and nothing can grow there; too much, the best of us is washed away.
Deranged Nasat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23 2012, 12:17 AM   #225
Yevetha
Commodore
 
Re: Charting the Novel-verse

Boreth can have different climate on different parts of the planet.

Retcon done.
Yevetha is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:20 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.