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Old September 1 2011, 07:38 PM   #286
Ayelbourne
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

I've just finished listening to the AffC audiobook and my feelings about the book are pretty mixed.
Overall it drags way too much compared to ASoS and seems to introduce new characters just for the sake of introducing new characters.

But lets start with what works:
Jaime:
His 180 was executed with great care and absolutely believable. I cheered out loud when he burned that letter.
I'm also looking forward to seeing his sparring sessions with Ser Illyn Payne on screen.

Cersei:
Much like Joffrey, a character who I loved to hate. Watching her selfdestruct was a joy to behold.

Arya:
For doing something productive for a change.

Brienne:
While most of her early chapters felt boring, I'll still include her up here just because of her last two chapters.
That word that she screamed?
"Arya", most likely. It's pretty much the only word that could have saved her at that point.

What didn't work:
All three Ironborn-PoVs
I cannot, for the love of god, bring myself to care about these guys. I just can't.
They're complete jerks who basically whine because they cannot reave and rape while completely dismissing alternative ways of life (I'll give Asha probs for suggesting that at least).
While that in itself holds the potential for villians you'd "love to hate", they're also rather dull and one-note, with Aeron Damphair being the worst of them.
"What is dead can never die, but rises again, harder and stronger."
"What is dead can never die, but rises again, harder and stronger."
"What is dead can never die, but rises again, harder and stronger."
"What is dead can never die, but rises again, harder and stronger."
"What is dead can never die, but rises again, harder and stronger."
ALRIGHT, STOP IT!!! I heard you the first time!
No need to repeat that BS twice per page.
Also, being pissed about the outcome of the Kingsmoot is kinda stupid after you organized it yourself, idiot!

One of the best things about ASoS was that it dealt with the Ironborn offcreen. I'm fine with the cliffnotes, thank you very much.

Samwell:
Meh, he whines a lot. What else is new. Also, he get's laid, which of course makes him whine even more.

The Jury is still out on Arianne and Dorne in general. So far, i'm fine with where it seems to be going.

But:
Arys Oakheart? What in seven hells was the point of that chapter? He does nothing but whine (which is Sam's occupation already) and then dies in someonelses PoV. Relevance?

Oh well, on to ADWD, I guess. Not looking forward to that Ramsay Bolton PoV. I really do not want to get into the mind of that creep.
Oh and there's more Aeron Hotair...pardon...Damphair. Splendid...

Overall, the book felt like on of those early episodes of Lost. You know, the ones where the good stuff only happened in the last three minutes.
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Old September 1 2011, 07:40 PM   #287
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

I am so with you on the Ironborn.
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Old September 1 2011, 07:44 PM   #288
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

I have problems with A Feast for Crows, but I love Aeron Damphair. He's just the right level of utterly crazy. He's one of the few characters in ASIOAF I'd gladly read an entire book about.

But yes, generally Martin has an predeliction for rambling chapters a problem that can traced back to A Clash of Kings and has only bloated since then. Sometimes I feel that form - that is, character oriented third person POV chapters - is getting a little in the way of content - the elaborate mutli-layered throne game that the series's really interesting stuff revolves around.
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Old September 1 2011, 08:14 PM   #289
Starbrow
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

At the end of the 4th Book, who is Pate? Why was he saved as the last lines of the 4th book?



Septons in this book i found to be very scary characters. Torturing people like that at the end. But Cersei was sure bold, to go out like that with out guards. I hope its not the end of her character.

And i still dont understand, Goald Cloaks - on who's side are they? I was so sure they would come to the Cersei's rescure.
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Old September 1 2011, 08:36 PM   #290
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Starbrow wrote: View Post
At the end of the 4th Book, who is Pate? Why was he saved as the last lines of the 4th book?
The real Pate was the young Citadel student killed in the prologue. By the end of the book he's been replaced by the Faceless Man - presumably Jaqen H'ghar - who killed him.
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Old September 1 2011, 08:53 PM   #291
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

I really hated the AFFC prologue. It was like "New Guy meets New Guy, New Guy, and New Guy at the New Place, talk about New People, and then New Guy gets killed." Or, Meanwhile, in a completely different book series... And then we don't even see them again until the final Sam chapter, and then all the establishing of Oldtown feels for naught at this point, as it never reappears at all in ADWD. ARGH!
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Old September 1 2011, 08:54 PM   #292
Ayelbourne
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Kegg wrote: View Post
Sometimes I feel that form - that is, character oriented third person POV chapters - is getting a little in the way of content
I agree. Interestingly enough, the books get a lot more interesting when he kind of breaks that mold.
The Red Wedding, for example, went back and forth between Arya and Catelynn with short chapters, making the whole event feel like one big chapter.
The same happens later at Joffreys wedding with Sansa/Tyrion/Sansa.
GRRM really should do that more often.
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Old September 2 2011, 02:15 AM   #293
Shurik
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Ironborn are awesome, there should be more of them.
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Old September 2 2011, 03:42 AM   #294
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

The question is... has GRRM ever PAID THE IRON PRICE... for a jelly donut?
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Old September 2 2011, 01:40 PM   #295
Shurik
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Yoda wrote: View Post
The question is... has GRRM ever PAID THE IRON PRICE... for a jelly donut?
Now there's a question someone needs to ask him at one of the conventions he visits
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Old September 2 2011, 01:53 PM   #296
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Ayelbourne wrote: View Post
Brienne:
While most of her early chapters felt boring, I'll still include her up here just because of her last two chapters.
That word that she screamed?
"Arya", most likely. It's pretty much the only word that could have saved her at that point.
Sword.

I would imagine the one word she could say to save herself is Sword, seeing as Zombie Kate just gave her an ultimatum of either sword (bringing her Jaime) or noose (they all die). I'm paraphrasing that obviously but I do recall that when I read that chapter (3 or 4 days ago) that seemed pretty obvious to me.
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Old September 2 2011, 06:24 PM   #297
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Why would she have screamed Arya? Wasn't she wandering around looking for Sansa, not Arya?
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Old September 3 2011, 12:01 AM   #298
Ayelbourne
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

She knew Arya was probably still alive. A fact that Lady Stoneheart might not have known. Of course, Thoros could have told her that as well.

It's a stretch. But so is "sword", since I just don't see Brienne betraying anyone willingly. Especially not if said sword is called Oathkeeper.
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Old September 3 2011, 01:49 AM   #299
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

By that point, hadn't Brienne learned that Arya had traveled briefly with the Hound and was headed for a port? Or was she still thinking she was chasing down Sansa with that information?
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Old September 3 2011, 01:37 PM   #300
Shurik
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

PsychoPere wrote: View Post
By that point, hadn't Brienne learned that Arya had traveled briefly with the Hound and was headed for a port? Or was she still thinking she was chasing down Sansa with that information?
IIRC, the head monk on the silent island told her that the Stark girl who traveled with the Hound was Arya and not Sansa.
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