RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,525
Posts: 5,512,450
Members: 25,138
Currently online: 437
Newest member: Bazzzz85

TrekToday headlines

Captain Kirk’s Boldest Missions
By: T'Bonz on Dec 25

Trek Paper Clips
By: T'Bonz on Dec 24

Sargent Passes
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

QMx Trek Insignia Badges
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

And The New Director Of Star Trek 3 Is…
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

TV Alert: Pine On Tonight Show
By: T'Bonz on Dec 22

Retro Review: The Emperor’s New Cloak
By: Michelle on Dec 20

Star Trek Opera
By: T'Bonz on Dec 19

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18

IDW Publishing March 2015 Comics
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old August 18 2011, 10:38 PM   #76
Captain Robert April
Vice Admiral
 
Location: In selfless service to fandom, on the road to becoming a Star Trek trivia god...
Re: Nichelle Nichols Interview

Takeru wrote: View Post
DS9Sega wrote: View Post
The chance encounter occurred at an NAACP fund-raiser held the day after Nichols…turned in her resignation.
Wasn't she a dayplayer? Why would she hand in her resignation, she never had a contract. What's the point in resigning and ensuring they never ask you back, when she could have been unavailable for as many episodes as she liked. The producers might have decided to get rid of the character, but maybe she could have returned to the show later.
She had no obligations to Star Trek, she could try to get every job she wanted and if it had worked out she could have left the show without further notice.

I don't know and don't care if she met MLK or not, but I don't truly believe that she wanted to quit in the first place, she may have dreamed about getting storylines or finding a better job, but it makes almost no sense that she thought NOT making money while she pursued other opportunities was better than making money and having regular appearances on a network show on her resume while she's doing it.
In fact, all of "the other four" got gigs on other shows while Star Trek was still on the air.

I suspect Nichelle was up for the part of Peggy, Mannix's secretary. That definitely would've precluded any more appearances as Uhura, or at least a substantial number of them.

Who knows, we have wound up praising Elizabeth Rogers for those hundred or so appearances as Lt. Palmer, instead of just the two.
Captain Robert April is offline  
Old August 18 2011, 10:51 PM   #77
Cookies and Cake
Admiral
 
Location: North America
Re: Nichelle Nichols Interview

I would have praised Elizabeth Rogers. I thought Lt. Palmer was, you know, hot.
__________________
CorporalCaptain
Cookies and Cake is offline  
Old August 19 2011, 08:50 PM   #78
CoveSanta
Rear Admiral
 
Location: CoveTom
Re: Nichelle Nichols Interview

Dennis wrote: View Post
Even the use of Trek fans as nonspeaking background performers in ST:TMP was sufficiently offensive to cause changes to Guild agreements with the major studios to prevent it being done again in that manner.
I thought that Paramount secured a waiver from the Screen Extras Guild (at the time separate from SAG) allowing them to make use of the fans in that scene.
CoveSanta is offline  
Old August 19 2011, 10:48 PM   #79
Captain Robert April
Vice Admiral
 
Location: In selfless service to fandom, on the road to becoming a Star Trek trivia god...
Re: Nichelle Nichols Interview

The initial idea was to bring in a bunch of fans, as a "thank you" for keeping the faith.

THEN the SEG through a hissyfit, demanding that at least a certain percentage of the extras in the Rec Deck scene be union members.

Made for some interesting encounters between fans who were overjoyed just to be there and jaded, cynical extras who barely even knew which production they were on, and who really didn't appreciate all these amateurs running around taking the jobs of other hardworking union members.
Captain Robert April is offline  
Old August 20 2011, 12:07 AM   #80
CoveSanta
Rear Admiral
 
Location: CoveTom
Re: Nichelle Nichols Interview

Which is yet another example of why I have such disdain for SAG. It's not like we're talking about a situation where the studio was really trying to avoid hiring union members. We're talking about some producers trying to do something nice for a group of extremely loyal and dedicated fans for one day.
CoveSanta is offline  
Old August 21 2011, 12:08 AM   #81
MauriceNavidad
Vice Admiral
 
MauriceNavidad's Avatar
 
Location: Maurice in San Francisco
View MauriceNavidad's Twitter Profile
Re: Nichelle Nichols Interview

CoveTom wrote: View Post
Which is yet another example of why I have such disdain for SAG. It's not like we're talking about a situation where the studio was really trying to avoid hiring union members. We're talking about some producers trying to do something nice for a group of extremely loyal and dedicated fans for one day.
That's not fair to SAG, which I don't believe had any jurisdiction over Extras/Background Actors back in 1979. Before 1992 most background actors in US film and TV were represented by the Screen Extras Guild. SEG members went over to SAG in 1992.
__________________
* * *
“Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip.”
― Winston S. Churchill
MauriceNavidad is offline  
Old August 21 2011, 12:24 AM   #82
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: Nichelle Nichols Interview

CoveTom wrote: View Post
Which is yet another example of why I have such disdain for SAG. It's not like we're talking about a situation where the studio was really trying to avoid hiring union members. We're talking about some producers trying to do something nice for a group of extremely loyal and dedicated fans for one day.
From the POV of the fans, perhaps. Any time management violates a union or guild agreement they have a reason that sounds good to someone. The job of a union is to protect the rights of workers under the negotiated contract, not applaud while the bosses pull a publicity stunt that takes work away from their members - if the union can't or doesn't do that every time, then they're not good for much.

I read that the ST:TMP event led directly to a change in the studio/guild agreements to prevent it being pulled again, and that's all to the good. It's dandy for people who don't have an honest stake in the outcome of these things to view the process of sausage-making with "disdain" but I'm glad the guilds are there and doing what they do.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline  
Old August 21 2011, 03:17 AM   #83
DakotaSmith
Fleet Captain
 
DakotaSmith's Avatar
 
Location: Redfield, Iowa, USA
View DakotaSmith's Twitter Profile Send a message via AIM to DakotaSmith Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to DakotaSmith Send a message via Yahoo to DakotaSmith
Re: Nichelle Nichols Interview

I'm 46. One of my earliest memories is of a Mugato, and with my parents' help I can successfully pinpoint to first-run TOS. I have been listening to the MLK story my entire life.

I know that it's changed. I would be unable to give empirical evidence, but I know that if you asked me at different times in my life about the story, I would have different answers -- because the story was always changing slightly.

Going 'way back ... maybe to TMOST, which was published during the show's run, my infant and early childhood memories are unclear ... but ever since I have been aware that Nichols once entertained leaving the show, there has been a slightly different twist on it. Initially, it was all just the money.

My most vague memory is that there's some kind of race reason given ... I wonder if I'm remembering a pre-TMP-era interview somewhere. If I recall, it was in that "tween period" from around 1972-1977. Everybody, Roddenberry, the studio, the actors, knew there was money to be had from Star Trek. The actors would get memos from Roddenberry who'd say, "This is great, we have a start date but no script. But what the hell, most people have a script and no start date!"

So there was an interview, maybe in the context of one of the big East Coast ST cons of the 1970s. They got into talking about residuals. Everyone agreed, to the reporter's surprise, that they hadn't been paid since the third viewing. That was all a standard contract ever bothered to deal with, since it was utterly unheard-of for a show to do so phenomenally well in syndication.

Before anyone suggests I'm remembering the Tomorrow Show With Tom Snyder interview, I'm not. That had a similar conversation, but it was between Doohan, Kelley, and Snyder. The one I'm remembering was Nichols, Koenig ... and one of the popular babes of the week. They were at some con and had shot interviews with the local news. The popular babe of the week might have been Barbara Luna, but I'm not sure.

Anyway, they were being interviewed, talked about residuals, how they weren't getting any, not even Bill or Leonard were getting any ... the studio was making money but none of the actors were. It was one of those moments where you can see that someone feels like they're kind of getting screwed.

At some point, Nichelle mentioned off-hand wanting to quit after the first year because she was getting paid so little. She didn't mention MLK at all. She said that she didn't really have much going on otherwise and finally decided that at least where she was, she was showing a female black officer in a racially-mixed cast. Maybe that counted for something, she thought. Then I think she realized she might be coming off bitter and that never plays well to fans, so she started talking about how great the cons she'd been attending were and how wonderful the fans are, etc.

Thinking about it, I recall that story being re-told in the context of interviews surrounding TAS. It was the same story told a bit more positively, and with the spin of being so happy to be doing Star Trek again and doing voices other than Uhura's. The "moral of the story" became, "I once thought about quitting, but I was nuts. A female black officer on TV is a great role model! And look what I'm doing now!"

So the slightly bitter interview might have been 1972-73. The TAS retelling would have been about 1973.

The first time MLK entered the picture was years later. I want to say that it was in context of some friends who'd gone to one of the Star Trekons in Kansas City at which she was a guest. They brought back the local papers' coverage of it. I think it was when the cast was being groomed for Phase II. The story became, "I once thought about quitting, but I thought, 'What would MLK do'? Here I am, a black female officer, an equal among whites and men, how could I quit? And now, of course, we're getting called in for fittings and they're writing scripts and we're going to do it again. And I'm going to have a lot more to do than I did in the original series ..."

I want to say that the first iteration I ever heard that actually involved MLK personally must have been during the press junkets surrounding STTMP. The first iteration involved a relatively chance meeting ... the two of them happening to be in the same hotel, and it turned out he used to watch the show. They wound up in the same room (MLK asked to see her in some early iterations, I think). She said she was flattered he liked the show, but to be honest she was thinking of quitting. He advised against it because she was a black female officer and a role model.

After that, the specific details and changes get vague. It's never been that the story has been horribly embellished out of shape over the years. It's that minor individual details change over time -- but just frequently enough to jog your memory of the last time you heard the story.

It's also not entirely Nichols' doing, either. The moment MLK entered the narrative, the story grew a life of its own within fandom. It would travel more by word of mouth between fans. By the time I remember actually hearing Nichols invoke meeting MLK, fans had been saying to each other, "Really? Well I heard she actually met him!" for months.

I'm not quite sure whether this is part of aging that I enjoy or not: that I can just barely remember how stories have changed during my lifetime.
__________________
"No human being has the right — under any circumstances — to initiate force against another human being, nor to threaten or delegate its initiation."

DakotaSmith is offline  
Old August 21 2011, 05:10 AM   #84
Josan
Commodore
 
Josan's Avatar
 
Location: London, Canada
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Josan
Re: Nichelle Nichols Interview

I wouldn't worry about aging or your memory. Not 100% recalling things that really don't directly impact you or yours, that are just stories told by actors, is no big thing.
__________________
Winterwind - Re-vamped and Re-launched July 2013
http://www.winterwind-productions.com
Issue 19 of the Winterwind Papers now online
Nationalism, brotherhood, 'pop' culture and puppy love
Josan is offline  
Old August 21 2011, 05:22 AM   #85
Captain Robert April
Vice Admiral
 
Location: In selfless service to fandom, on the road to becoming a Star Trek trivia god...
Re: Nichelle Nichols Interview

Just flipped through TMoST, and the part about Nichelle only talks about her early career, what she does in her spare time, and that she shares her home with two Siamese cats. Her son doesn't even merit a mention!
Captain Robert April is offline  
Old August 21 2011, 05:41 AM   #86
DakotaSmith
Fleet Captain
 
DakotaSmith's Avatar
 
Location: Redfield, Iowa, USA
View DakotaSmith's Twitter Profile Send a message via AIM to DakotaSmith Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to DakotaSmith Send a message via Yahoo to DakotaSmith
Re: Nichelle Nichols Interview

Yeah, I'm not sure there's anything in TMOST. As I say, I think I could pinpoint the first time I happen to remember her talking about it as 1972-73. I could have the timing off or out of order.

This whole story is one of those really fascinating things to me, looking back on it from damned near half a century later. It's not that Nichols herself is much to blame. Yes, she's changed the story a bit -- but the fans were doing it right along with her. They might even have preceded her a couple of times and Nichols' alterations were just keeping up with them.

It's one of those weird stories that tends to make me ask, "Where do certain jokes come from?" There are jokes, anecdotes, old wives' tales that've been around in some form for centuries. Where do they come from? Sometimes there's no answer.

This is one of those stories, where I actually watched -- and unwittingly participated -- in its alteration over the years. It is a serious head trip to see almost half a century's progress on what is basically a word-of-mouth story. Having seen this story change in the telling in only fifty years is one of the reasons I don't take ancient holy books that have been repeatedly transcribed terribly seriously ...

I suspect the number of times Nichols has even told the story over the years is pretty limited. Fans have told it hundreds of times more. It is just a very weird animal.
__________________
"No human being has the right — under any circumstances — to initiate force against another human being, nor to threaten or delegate its initiation."

DakotaSmith is offline  
Old August 21 2011, 08:28 AM   #87
Mr_Homn
Captain
 
Mr_Homn's Avatar
 
Re: Nichelle Nichols Interview

DakotaSmith wrote: View Post

This is one of those stories, where I actually watched -- and unwittingly participated -- in its alteration over the years. It is a serious head trip to see almost half a century's progress on what is basically a word-of-mouth story. Having seen this story change in the telling in only fifty years is one of the reasons I don't take ancient holy books that have been repeatedly transcribed terribly seriously ...
Great point
__________________
"Thank you.. for the drinks."
Mr_Homn is offline  
Old August 21 2011, 09:26 PM   #88
A beaker full of death
Vice Admiral
 
A beaker full of death's Avatar
 
Re: Nichelle Nichols Interview

Seems in one iteration King knew she was fourth in command. Wasn't that fanon that evolved years later?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_U3K...eature=related
__________________
"shall not be infringed" is naturally open to infringements of all kinds, because shut up and think of the children.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/...#ixzz2ImW0V3GV
A beaker full of death is offline  
Old August 21 2011, 09:38 PM   #89
DakotaSmith
Fleet Captain
 
DakotaSmith's Avatar
 
Location: Redfield, Iowa, USA
View DakotaSmith's Twitter Profile Send a message via AIM to DakotaSmith Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to DakotaSmith Send a message via Yahoo to DakotaSmith
Re: Nichelle Nichols Interview

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
Seems in one iteration King knew she was fourth in command. Wasn't that fanon that evolved years later?
I don't have it in-hand, but I believe the Writer's Guide circa the second or third seasons state that she's fourth in command after Scotty. I suspect this was inserted by Roddenberry as a nod to his mistress bugging him about her crappy part. It was an easy thing to claim yet never act on. How frequently did they even need to go further down the chain than Scotty, after all?

It may not be in the Writer's Guide, my memory is hazy. I believe that it appears in some early semi-official material -- The Making Of Star Trek, The World of Star Trek or The Trouble With Tribbles (the book, not the episode) is where I'd look.

Nichols has repeated that Uhura was 4th in command since forever. It wouldn't shock me if that particular tidbit worked its way into the story at some point. It would shock me a lot of MLK actually knew it -- only the most zealous fans even cared.

Dakota Smith
__________________
"No human being has the right — under any circumstances — to initiate force against another human being, nor to threaten or delegate its initiation."

DakotaSmith is offline  
Old August 22 2011, 04:04 AM   #90
Captain Robert April
Vice Admiral
 
Location: In selfless service to fandom, on the road to becoming a Star Trek trivia god...
Re: Nichelle Nichols Interview

Generally after Scotty, Sulu was put in command. Hell, in "Journey to Babel", Kirk put Ensign Chekov in command, with Lieutenant Uhura sitting right there!

Star Trek Writer's Guide, Third Season wrote:
LIEUTENANT UHURA--- Communications Officer, played by attractive young actress Nichelle Nichols. Uhura was born in the United States of Africa. Quick and intelligent, she is a highly efficient officer and expert in all ships systems relating to communications. Uhura is also a warm, highly female female off duty. She is something of a favorite in the Recreation Room during off duty hours, too, because she sings -- old ballads as well as the newer space ballads -- and she can do an impersonation at the drop of a communicator.
To be perfectly honest, I really have no idea where the idea that Uhura was fourth in command came from. The closest she ever came was "The Lorelei Signal" in TAS, and that was only because the entire male crew was incapacitated and she was the senior female bridge officer, not because of where she was in the normal chain of command.
Captain Robert April is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:47 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.