TOS: Cast No Shadow by James Swallow Review Thread (Spoilers!)

[JD]

MatthiasRussell wrote:

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Sorry, just not interested in this one. The time for this book was 10 years ago.

I have to disagree with you here. One of the things I've loved about Trek Lit is the fact that they do tend to jump around in the timeline alot.

I've moved beyond my interest in this part of the timeline. I don't mean to criticize this book or the author but this story seemed to come out of no where; I don't think the lost era has been visited in awhile. Is there much enthusiasm for this book?

I saw quite a few people post about how much they were looking forward to the book before it came out, and it was certainly one of my most anticipated books of the year. As for it coming "out of nowhere", I don't really see where it's any more "out of nowhere" than books like Watching the Clock, or Indistinguishable From Magic.

[FatherRob]

JoeZhang wrote:

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The more I think about it, another problem I have with the book (and this is my own bias not necessary a problem for other readers) is that I think in their current form, Klingons are pretty much played out and that adds to the rather generic feel of the book. It will be interesting to see if the movies takes them in a different cultural direction than we have seen over the last 25 years.

I actually find myself curious about how a Kitumba-style Klingon Empire would have worked out long term. I'll be curious to see how much retconning Phase II does with Kitumba when they produce that script.

I do agree, though, about the Klingons. Only KRAD's Klingon Empire series makes them tolerable for me (but I must agree, I likey his stories!). I really enjoyed Pawns and Symbols... an interesting Klingon journey!

Rob+

[Ronald Held]

Just got my copy, and it is next after Vanguard Declassified is finished(about half way through it).

[Julio Angel Ortiz]

Swallow's Titan novel Synthesis was great. Might have to pick this one up...

[FatherRob]

FWIW - My review is now up at trekmovie.com.

Rob+

[MatthiasRussell]

Julio Angel Ortiz wrote:

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Swallow's Titan novel Synthesis was great. Might have to pick this one up...

I did LOVE Synthesis and am looking forward to more White-Blue.

[JoeZhang]

FatherRob wrote:

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FWIW - My review is now up at trekmovie.com.

Rob+

Good stuff - this bit:

Gone is her (albeit flawed) logic seen in Star Trek VI, replaced by stereotypical childhood issues

is pretty much the heart of the problems with the book - we *know* the Federation-Klingon alliance works out because we've seen it but the characters don't or shouldn't - and a character who decides via (faulty) logic that this is the best cause of action and is still convinced of that would be more interesting (and from our vantage point, tragic) than the motivation we got. I think the back-story we get here makes the character less rather than more interesting.

[Jedi_Master]

JoeZhang wrote:

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Look forward to reading the review. The more I think about it, another problem I have with the book (and this is my own bias not necessary a problem for other readers) is that in their current form, Klingons are pretty much played out and that adds to the rather generic feel of the book. It will be interesting to see if the movies takes them in a different cultural direction than we have seen over the last 25 years.

It is a bit tiresome to see the stereotypical idiot Klingon who puts his or her personal advancement before honor and what is "right".

But the book overall seemed to be telling a personal story about Valeris, tying in her journey to the overall plot.

I think that Swallow's handling of the forced mindmeld at the end of Star Trek:VI redeems any "stereotype" issues in the novel.

[JoeZhang]

I think that Swallow's handling of the forced mindmeld at the end of Star Trek:VI redeems any "stereotype" issues in the novel.

I thought the 'resolution' of that was contrived to be honest.

[EmperorKalan]

A lot of John M. Ford and FASA bits in the Klingons' characterization and equipment, though not mentioned in the Acknowledgments.

[FatherRob]

JoeZhang wrote:

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I thought the 'resolution' of that was contrived to be honest.

Ditto here... it's just another sterotype added to the mix. Granted, I can understand that stereotype far more than using the out that makes its way into the bulk of the story... and I can't see a way around said view of the forced meld (especially having just read Yesterday's Son last night!)

That begin said...

Cold hard logic leading Valeris to her conclusions during the Gorkon/Khitomer conspiracy would have been far more compelling, cold, and Vulcan than what we got...

At least, in my opinion.

Rob+

[BrotherBenny]

I finished it over the weekend and I thought it was very well done. I liked the parallels between Jack Ryan from the Hunt for Red October (move version) and Elias Vaughn (Next time Jack, write a goddamn memo) as it showed the beginning of the latter's career. Valeris was always a flawed character and regardless of the type of flaw it is, it will always be cliched because there are only so many flaws and therefore they are used all the time.

The terrorist plot was also interesting as it showed yet again how one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. I think the only way to stamp out terrorism is to understand why they do what they do and make them know that you understand and are willing to do something about it. The politics of this novel are great, with everything the bad guys have done swept under the rug so no one knows anything.

I do have one question though. We saw a Kriosian in TNG but was Krios independent by then or just left alone by the Klingons as a result of the events in the book?

[FatherRob]

BrotherBenny wrote:

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I finished it over the weekend... Valeris was always a flawed character and regardless of the type of flaw it is, it will always be cliched because there are only so many flaws and therefore they are used all the time.

All the more reason for a very different take (see the spoiler in my post above) on motivations for Valeris.

Rob+

[BrotherBenny]

You forget that

Vulcans are not without emotion, they just bury them under what is arguably a thin veneer of logic. To me, Vulcans lie and scheme just as much as the Romulans, but they say it is logical, as if that will cover it. Very few Vulcans appear to have achieved Kolinahr and therefore their emotions are bound to come through at times, no matter how much they bury them. She had hatred for Klingons as a girl and held on to it for decades, nurturing it and twisting her logic.

Vulcans are as susceptible as the rest of us when it comes to revenge it would seem. Just as humans become blinded by revenge, so do Vulcans, but it manifests differently, and seemingly more potently. Because they bury their emotions and don't really deal with anything, when they erupt, they do so like Pompeii instead of something more.

In my view, Valeris wasn't even sure of her own motivations at any given point, she was working on instinct, not logic.

[JoeZhang]

BrotherBenny wrote:

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You forget that

Vulcans are not without emotion, they just bury them under what is arguably a thin veneer of logic. To me, Vulcans lie and scheme just as much as the Romulans, but they say it is logical, as if that will cover it. Very few Vulcans appear to have achieved Kolinahr and therefore their emotions are bound to come through at times, no matter how much they bury them. She had hatred for Klingons as a girl and held on to it for decades, nurturing it and twisting her logic.

Vulcans are as susceptible as the rest of us when it comes to revenge it would seem. Just as humans become blinded by revenge, so do Vulcans, but it manifests differently, and seemingly more potently. Because they bury their emotions and don't really deal with anything, when they erupt, they do so like Pompeii instead of something more.

In my view, Valeris wasn't even sure of her own motivations at any given point, she was working on instinct, not logic.

But the problem is not with her being a vulcan but that the reasoning behind her motivation is maybe the most clichéd (just behind "I was abused as a child!") in modern fiction, her species is irrelevant in that regard, she could be a talking octopus for all the difference it makes to the use of that tired plot point.