Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel, DVD

[captcalhoun]

my review:

Captian America A+

Let's be clear, this film rocks. It doesn't matter if you're an Americaphile or Americaphobic, it's not a gung-ho flag-waving patriotic movie. This is a movie about a guy, a little guy, who gets beat up because he refuses to give into bullies. A guy given a chance to become the peak of humanity and to use that to Do The Right Thing. He then does; and how. Don't bother with the 3D version, I saw it in 2D and it's perfectly great that way. Evans erases any lingering memories of his (well cast) role as Human Torch and exemplifies Cap perfectly. Hayley Atwell as Agent Peggy Carter is frankly sex on legs. Hugo Weaving is his usual brilliant self as Johann Schmitt, the Red Skull. Able support provided by Stanley Tucci as Erskine, Tobey Jones as Armin Zola, Tommy Lee Jones as Col. Phillips, Dominic Cooper as Howard Stark and Sebastian Stan as Bucky Barnes.

[Captain Craig]

^^^^
Thread back on track. Nice review.

[captcalhoun]

thanks.

[Dac]

Just got back from it here in the UK and...wow. I think this is by and far the weirdest narrative structure and editing I've seen in a mainstream movie. I mean, it had little to no pacing, stuff just happened, and while nothing happened for the sake of happening, there was by no means any drama in any of the action scenes save for maybe Steve breaking out the prisoners from the Hydra base. The random action montage after he becomes the cap, the Train heist and even the climactic battle all felt flat and uneventful. Also, while I get this isn't "our" universe, the super high tech world of 1940s New York City was just incredibly odd and seemed at odds with the semi realistic worlds of Iron Man, Hulk and Thor. While I get the cosmic cube was the source of all of Hydras superweapons, those random skyscrapers in the new york skyline and hovercars just seemed....dumb. Red Skull never seemed menacing enough, sure, we see him shoot an old dude and order the destruction of a village we never even see, but that was small potatoes for a bad guy who literally has a Red Skull and is a Nazi.

I don't know...Thor was about a bunch of human aliens who live forever in a golden city amonst the clouds and stars, but made a conscious effort to rationalize it's story within our confines of reality and in my opinion nailed it, whereas Captain America was just like "We had flying hover cars and lasers in World War 2. Deal with it."

It was by no means terrible, but It just seemed like it needed a complete overhaul when it came to the story and editing, because I never once had an edge of my seat moment. Sure, we know Cap and Thor would survive their movies because they had to be in the Avengers, but Thor had suspense whereas Captain America just had random fight scenes. Even Bucky's death was emotionless, as Steve saying he can't cry in a bombed out bar 5 minutes later had no effect whatsoever to hammer home he's "dead".

I wanted to like this film, but considering it just ended with no closure on either the 40's plotline or even the modern day one, it was just incredibly weird to watch. The best thing I can say about it was that The Avengers looks quite good.

[CorporalCaptain]

Dac wrote:

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considering it just ended with no closure on either the 40's plotline or even the modern day one, it was just incredibly weird to watch.

First off, I want to make it clear that I'm not picking at your review.

But I want to say that Steve having no closure on his experiences in WWII is precisely the point. It's one of the things about the film I liked the most, as it drives home the loss he feels. Us not knowing how things turned out allows us to feel directly what Steve feels. It's literally as if he died. But he has also been given a second chance at life in another time.

[Dac]

CorporalCaptain wrote:

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First off, I want to make it clear that I'm not picking at your review.

But I want to say that Steve having no closure on his experiences in WWII is precisely the point. It's one of the things about the film I liked the most, as it drives home the loss he feels. Us not knowing how things turned out allows us to feel directly what Steve feels. It's literally as if he died. But he has also been given a second chance at life in another time.

But at the very end of the film he's completely unfazed by the fact he's been frozen for 70 years. Sure, he looks around New York like "WTF", but it's not like he had any major freakout or anything, he takes it pretty well considering, or at least for as long as we see him, which is all of 30 seconds or so before the movie just cuts to the credits. Sure, he's somewhat gutted about not going on that date with Peggy, but that's not really played up, just mentioned. The whole film seemed extremely detached and unemotional.

[davejames]

Dac wrote:

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Just got back from it here in the UK and...wow. I think this is by and far the weirdest narrative structure and editing I've seen in a mainstream movie. I mean, it had little to no pacing, stuff just happened, and while nothing happened for the sake of happening, there was by no means any drama in any of the action scenes save for maybe Steve breaking out the prisoners from the Hydra base. The random action montage after he becomes the cap, the Train heist and even the climactic battle all felt flat and uneventful.

I really liked the movie, but I agree those scenes weren't quite as thrilling as they could have been. Mostly I just blame that on the dull and lackluster score though.

Instead of lifting up the action (as the great themes in The Rocketeer, Superman, and even The Shadow did), the music just kind of laid there and didn't help out at all.

I would still rate the movie higher than Thor though. Thor had some cool moments, but the transitions and tonal shifts between the Earth and Asgard scenes were jarring as hell. I thought Captain America flowed MUCH better.

[Star Wolf]

I liked it. I would rank it second in the current wave of comic movies to X-Men First Class. My major nitpick wasn't having Captain Rogers and his Howling Commandos fighting Hydra instead of the SS but it was almost totally ignoring America's racial segregation.

So instead of Steve Rogers being more heroic in ignoring skin color and American norms when recruiting his team or on war bond tours we had happy smiling integrated audiences, civilian and GIs in Italy just ignoring that fact of history. The only reference we got was Dum Dum Dugan being surprised that Jim Morita was a fellow POW, but given the rest of the actions Morita could have been from any unit and not the segregated 442 RCT and Gabe Jones could have studied at Harvard instead of Howard.

[Dac]

davejames wrote:

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I would still rate the movie higher than Thor though. Thor had some cool moments, but the transitions and tonal shifts between the Earth and Asgard scenes were jarring as hell. I thought Captain America flowed MUCH better.

Hell no, Thor wins for being a complete movie with a story that went from A to B. Captain America just started and then shit happened with no resolution at all. The big finale was all of 5 minutes long with maybe only 10 punches being pulled. Bucky's death was unexpected, but incredibly shallow and not hard hitting in the slightest. Hell, Thor made a conscious effort to reconcile alien humans who live forever on a city in the clouds with "our" world, and did a damned good job at it. Captain America had an alt history world war 2 with giant futuristic Skyscrapers in New York, Hover cars and lasers without so much as a wink to the audience.

[Python Trek]

Dac wrote:

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Hell no, Thor wins for being a complete movie with a story that went from A to B. Captain America just started and then shit happened with no resolution at all. The big finale was all of 5 minutes long with maybe only 10 punches being pulled. Bucky's death was unexpected, but incredibly shallow and not hard hitting in the slightest. Hell, Thor made a conscious effort to reconcile alien humans who live forever on a city in the clouds with "our" world, and did a damned good job at it. Captain America had an alt history world war 2 with giant futuristic Skyscrapers in New York, Hover cars and lasers without so much as a wink to the audience.

I haven't seen the Cap film yet, but your comments are, IMO, an encapsulation of the various reviews that I've read. I had really high hopes for this one, though....I've been a huge Cap fan since I was about five.

[DarKush]

Star Wolf wrote:

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I liked it. I would rank it second in the current wave of comic movies to X-Men First Class. My major nitpick wasn't having Captain Rogers and his Howling Commandos fighting Hydra instead of the SS but it was almost totally ignoring America's racial segregation.

So instead of Steve Rogers being more heroic in ignoring skin color and American norms when recruiting his team or on war bond tours we had happy smiling integrated audiences, civilian and GIs in Italy just ignoring that fact of history. The only reference we got was Dum Dum Dugan being surprised that Jim Morita was a fellow POW, but given the rest of the actions Morita could have been from any unit and not the segregated 442 RCT and Gabe Jones could have studied at Harvard instead of Howard.

I thought the omission of the racial segregation of the US Armed Forces in the movie was odd as well. I just went with the idea that this special unit of the Armed Forces was integrated, though it still is a little tough to believe they would ever contemplate a non-white soldier receiving the super-soldier serum and being frontline soldiers, unless it was done like in the Truth miniseries, to use minorities as guinea pigs to work out the kinks before the white soldiers got it. In attention to Truth, I liked how the comic Flags of Our Fathers, a Black Panther-Captain America WW2 team-up, handled the issue. It showed Cap as forward thinking and not tolerant of the conventional racial wisdom of that day.

As the movie progressed and became even more fantastical, with all this futuristic Hydra weapons, etc., I just decided to roll with it. Captain America was a very fantasy take on WW2. Did it do a disservice to the character and the war itself? I guess that's a matter of opinion.

It's funny but the way ENT dealt with Nazis came off as more realistic than in Captain America, and they had space Nazis.

[Nerys Myk]

DarKush wrote:

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I thought the omission of the racial segregation of the US Armed Forces in the movie was odd as well. I just went with the idea that this special unit of the Armed Forces was integrated, though it still is a little tough to believe they would ever contemplate a non-white soldier receiving the super-soldier serum and being frontline soldiers, unless it was done like in the Truth miniseries, to use minorities as guinea pigs to work out the kinks before the white soldiers got it. In attention to Truth, I liked how the comic Flags of Our Fathers, a Black Panther-Captain America WW2 team-up, handled the issue. It showed Cap as forward thinking and not tolerant of the conventional racial wisdom of that day.

As the movie progressed and became even more fantastical, with all this futuristic Hydra weapons, etc., I just decided to roll with it. Captain America was a very fantasy take on WW2. Did it do a disservice to the character and the war itself? I guess that's a matter of opinion.

It's funny but the way ENT dealt with Nazis came off as more realistic than in Captain America, and they had space Nazis.

While an interesting topic, its not really one that this particular movie was designed to discuss. Heck, I dont even think the Sgt Fury and his Howling Commando book ( where Gabe Jones first appeared) discussed how a black man could be in a elite commando unit in a segregated US Army.

This is after all Captain America not Band of Brothers or Tuskegee Airmen. Its supposed to be fantastical and futuristic not a realistic warts and all examination of the US Army in WWII.

[davejames]

Dac wrote:

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Hell no, Thor wins for being a complete movie with a story that went from A to B. Captain America just started and then shit happened with no resolution at all. The big finale was all of 5 minutes long with maybe only 10 punches being pulled. Bucky's death was unexpected, but incredibly shallow and not hard hitting in the slightest. Hell, Thor made a conscious effort to reconcile alien humans who live forever on a city in the clouds with "our" world, and did a damned good job at it. Captain America had an alt history world war 2 with giant futuristic Skyscrapers in New York, Hover cars and lasers without so much as a wink to the audience.

So the way the movie constantly shifts back and forth between serious and Shakespearean to lighthearted and campy didn't strike anybody else as... odd?

Hmm, ok. Guess it was just me then.

[flemm]

davejames wrote:

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So the way the movie constantly shifts back and forth between serious and Shakespearean to lighthearted and campy didn't strike anybody else as... odd?

Not me personally, as the tonal shift corresponded to Thor's exile to earth, but I could see how it might not be to everyone's taste.

Regarding Cap, I agree with some of the points made by Dac above, particularly the point that Bucky's death really didn't have any emotional weight. I still enjoyed this movie quite a bit, though, and would give it a B+ or so. Chris Evans did a great job as Cap. With RDJ and Hemsworth, Marvel is set up nicely for Avengers.

Oh and Hayley Atwell = They need to find some way to bring her to modern times.

[CaptainCanada]

Dac wrote:

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I wanted to like this film, but considering it just ended with no closure on either the 40's plotline or even the modern day one, it was just incredibly weird to watch.

How was there not closure on the 40s plotline? The villain was defeated (albeit we know temporarily, because the Skull has to return in the present day, so he can't die), and Steve "died".

There wasn't a plot in the present day at all; he wakes up, and the film ends on something of a cliffhanger.