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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old July 22 2011, 10:13 PM   #16
Dukhat
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Re: Hatin on TFF

Poopday Machine wrote: View Post
Because all Vulcan's are betrothed from birth. I'm assuming that no earthling would promise his daughter to an alien at the age of 7. Therefore Amanda would have to be his second wife or his first wife after the Kali-fee.
While that does make sense, it still doesn't explain why Spock never told Kirk about Sybok until this movie. The real explanation of course, is that Sybok (or the idea of a half-brother) didn't exist before this movie, and it's never talked about afterwards either, almost like everyone wanted to forget it existed in the first place.
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Old July 22 2011, 10:16 PM   #17
DWF
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Re: Hatin on TFF

Dukhat wrote: View Post
Poopday Machine wrote: View Post
Because all Vulcan's are betrothed from birth. I'm assuming that no earthling would promise his daughter to an alien at the age of 7. Therefore Amanda would have to be his second wife or his first wife after the Kali-fee.
While that does make sense, it still doesn't explain why Spock never told Kirk about Sybok until this movie. The real explanation of course, is that Sybok (or the idea of a half-brother) didn't exist before this movie, and it's never talked about afterwards either, almost like everyone wanted to forget it existed in the first place.
Sybok enbraced his emotional side and that made him sometbing of a rebel among the other Vulcans, so it's not surprising that Spock didn't mention the black sheep of the family.
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Old July 22 2011, 10:37 PM   #18
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Re: Hatin on TFF

My gripe was that General Korrd turns out to be the rseolution of the whole thing, yet up until then he's only portrayed as drunken, stupid, vulgar, useless -- you name it.

Had there been an earlier face-to-face moment, with Kirk reminding the man of his past glories, the wrap-up would have had meaning.
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Old July 22 2011, 11:12 PM   #19
Dukhat
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Re: Hatin on TFF

DWF wrote: View Post
Dukhat wrote: View Post
Poopday Machine wrote: View Post
Because all Vulcan's are betrothed from birth. I'm assuming that no earthling would promise his daughter to an alien at the age of 7. Therefore Amanda would have to be his second wife or his first wife after the Kali-fee.
While that does make sense, it still doesn't explain why Spock never told Kirk about Sybok until this movie. The real explanation of course, is that Sybok (or the idea of a half-brother) didn't exist before this movie, and it's never talked about afterwards either, almost like everyone wanted to forget it existed in the first place.
Sybok enbraced his emotional side and that made him sometbing of a rebel among the other Vulcans, so it's not surprising that Spock didn't mention the black sheep of the family.
Yes, I've heard this excuse before, and it doesn't fly with me. It had been shown time and time again that Kirk, Spock and McCoy kew quite a lot about each other's personal lives. Granted, Spock had the most reason to be unforthcoming with personal information, but that information should at least have been in his Starfleet record.
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Old July 22 2011, 11:21 PM   #20
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Re: Hatin on TFF

Dukhat wrote: View Post
DWF wrote: View Post
Dukhat wrote: View Post

While that does make sense, it still doesn't explain why Spock never told Kirk about Sybok until this movie. The real explanation of course, is that Sybok (or the idea of a half-brother) didn't exist before this movie, and it's never talked about afterwards either, almost like everyone wanted to forget it existed in the first place.
Sybok enbraced his emotional side and that made him sometbing of a rebel among the other Vulcans, so it's not surprising that Spock didn't mention the black sheep of the family.
Yes, I've heard this excuse before, and it doesn't fly with me. It had been shown time and time again that Kirk, Spock and McCoy kew quite a lot about each other's personal lives. Granted, Spock had the most reason to be unforthcoming with personal information, but that information should at least have been in his Starfleet record.
I seem to remember Kirk being alittle surprised that Sarek and Amanda were Spock's parents in Journey To Babel. Yeah he knew that Spock's mother was human but he still didn't know who they were.
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Old July 22 2011, 11:37 PM   #21
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Re: Hatin on TFF

DWF wrote: View Post
I seem to remember Kirk being alittle surprised that Sarek and Amanda were Spock's parents in Journey To Babel. Yeah he knew that Spock's mother was human but he still didn't know who they were.
Correct. He also didn't know Spock was betrothed. Or that he had a pet Selat. These guys were friends, but not really confidants until after Spock died.
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Old July 23 2011, 12:43 AM   #22
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Re: Hatin on TFF

Kirk was getting to know Spock during the original series, but by the time the movies came around they were supposed to be 20 year-long friends. Friends for that long and Kirk never learned that Spock at least had a brother? I don't buy it.
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Old July 23 2011, 01:12 AM   #23
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Re: Hatin on TFF

When I think of the problems with TFF, Uhura's fan dance never makes the list. I have really no problems or issues with that part of the movie. None at all. It's not like you saw her naked or something. And maybe it's just "yougin's" impression that all "old people" look horrific naked.

First and foremost, this movie just "felt" off. Maybe I could quantify it after much thought and many words, but I won't do that here. The feeling of the movie is just off. I think some may understand.

Never liked the broken down Enterprise. We were so happy to get the lady back at the end of TVH. We cried when she blew up in TSFS. And what happens? It's a lemon. We wanted to see her back in action, not falling apart.

And after the trilogy, TFF had the problem of the "OK, what now?"

There are the stupid things, like the deck numbers. And, oh, dear god, the rocket boots. Spock is wearing Acme rocket boots. Did anyone see Wile E. Coyote deliver them?

But beyond all that, still, what it comes down to for me is the movie felt "off."

TUC put them back on track. Which was a blessing for their send-off.
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Old July 23 2011, 01:21 AM   #24
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Re: Hatin on TFF

Harvey wrote: View Post
Kirk was getting to know Spock during the original series, but by the time the movies came around they were supposed to be 20 year-long friends. Friends for that long and Kirk never learned that Spock at least had a brother? I don't buy it.
Exactly. Before TOS, Kirk knew Spock for what, a year? By the time of TFF, they'd known each other for over two decades, and had been pretty much together that entire time.
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Old July 23 2011, 01:43 AM   #25
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Re: Hatin on TFF

I wouldn't put too muich thought into Star Trek V, the ship had 42 decks, they reached the center of the galaxy iin some 20 minutes and took even less time to reach Numbus III not to mention a broken down and understaffed. And then there's the idea of "God" being taken down by Klingon disruptor fire from a mere Bird of Prey.
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Old July 24 2011, 11:16 PM   #26
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Re: Hatin on TFF

BriGuy wrote: View Post
When I think of the problems with TFF, Uhura's fan dance never makes the list. I have really no problems or issues with that part of the movie. None at all. It's not like you saw her naked or something. And maybe it's just "yougin's" impression that all "old people" look horrific naked.

First and foremost, this movie just "felt" off. Maybe I could quantify it after much thought and many words, but I won't do that here. The feeling of the movie is just off. I think some may understand.

Never liked the broken down Enterprise. We were so happy to get the lady back at the end of TVH. We cried when she blew up in TSFS. And what happens? It's a lemon. We wanted to see her back in action, not falling apart.

And after the trilogy, TFF had the problem of the "OK, what now?"

There are the stupid things, like the deck numbers. And, oh, dear god, the rocket boots. Spock is wearing Acme rocket boots. Did anyone see Wile E. Coyote deliver them?

But beyond all that, still, what it comes down to for me is the movie felt "off."

TUC put them back on track. Which was a blessing for their send-off.
To me that sums it up in a nutshell. However, I think the deviation from "normal", "believable" Star Trek stories in TFF was necessary, albeit painful to watch. Now, I'm not suggesting that anyone consciously thought in advance, "Ooooh, let's make a horrendously bad film so the next one can be viewed as really great in comparison!". But, since TFF was such a dud, I think the producers felt compelled to "return to form" as it were in STVI:TUC. Had TFF been even marginally good, the next one might have been mediocre at best. Just a thought.

BTW, didn't GR consider TFF apocryphal?
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Old July 24 2011, 11:16 PM   #27
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Re: Hatin on TFF

BriGuy wrote: View Post
When I think of the problems with TFF, Uhura's fan dance never makes the list. I have really no problems or issues with that part of the movie. None at all. It's not like you saw her naked or something. And maybe it's just "yougin's" impression that all "old people" look horrific naked.

First and foremost, this movie just "felt" off. Maybe I could quantify it after much thought and many words, but I won't do that here. The feeling of the movie is just off. I think some may understand.

Never liked the broken down Enterprise. We were so happy to get the lady back at the end of TVH. We cried when she blew up in TSFS. And what happens? It's a lemon. We wanted to see her back in action, not falling apart.

And after the trilogy, TFF had the problem of the "OK, what now?"

There are the stupid things, like the deck numbers. And, oh, dear god, the rocket boots. Spock is wearing Acme rocket boots. Did anyone see Wile E. Coyote deliver them?

But beyond all that, still, what it comes down to for me is the movie felt "off."

TUC put them back on track. Which was a blessing for their send-off.
To me that sums it up in a nutshell. However, I think the deviation from "normal", "believable" Star Trek stories in TFF was necessary, albeit painful to watch. Now, I'm not suggesting that anyone consciously thought in advance, "Ooooh, let's make a horrendously bad film so the next one can be viewed as really great in comparison!". But, since TFF was such a dud, I think the producers felt compelled to "return to form" as it were in STVI:TUC. Had TFF been even marginally good, the next one might have been mediocre at best. Just a thought.

BTW, didn't GR consider TFF apocryphal?
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Old July 25 2011, 01:39 AM   #28
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Re: Hatin on TFF

cblmc1296 wrote: View Post
BTW, didn't GR consider TFF apocryphal?
That's what I've heard, but it doesn't really matter what he thought. Paramount sure as hell doesn't consider it apocryphal, as they're still selling it.
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Old July 25 2011, 01:56 AM   #29
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Re: Hatin on TFF

Dukhat wrote: View Post
cblmc1296 wrote: View Post
BTW, didn't GR consider TFF apocryphal?
That's what I've heard, but it doesn't really matter what he thought. Paramount sure as hell doesn't consider it apocryphal, as they're still selling it.
Your point is well taken. Although, from an "in-universe" perspective, it interesting how the events of TFF seem to have no bearing on any stories that come afterward. It's almost as though they never happened (e.g. broken down Enterprise-A, cavorting with Klingons, etc.).
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Old July 25 2011, 02:41 AM   #30
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Re: Hatin on TFF

cblmc1296 wrote: View Post
Dukhat wrote: View Post
cblmc1296 wrote: View Post
BTW, didn't GR consider TFF apocryphal?
That's what I've heard, but it doesn't really matter what he thought. Paramount sure as hell doesn't consider it apocryphal, as they're still selling it.
Your point is well taken. Although, from an "in-universe" perspective, it interesting how the events of TFF seem to have no bearing on any stories that come afterward. It's almost as though they never happened (e.g. broken down Enterprise-A, cavorting with Klingons, etc.).
Has anything from TFF been referenced since? If not, or if not substantive, then that would show it hasn't been treated as part of the "official record."
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