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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old July 20 2011, 11:38 PM   #31
borgboy
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Re: Humanoid Sexuality in TrekLit (Minor Spoilers for VGD: Declassifie

On the subject of a character being gay not defining them, if done well that's how it should be, but whenever I hear that, I expect that the character's sexuality will be ignored as much as possible and be gay in name only.
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Old July 21 2011, 09:43 AM   #32
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Re: Humanoid Sexuality in TrekLit (Minor Spoilers for VGD: Declassifie

borgboy wrote: View Post
On the subject of a character being gay not defining them, if done well that's how it should be, but whenever I hear that, I expect that the character's sexuality will be ignored as much as possible and be gay in name only.
Exactly. Like I say, it's saying the right thing, but at the same time it kind of rubs me the wrong way. But then if I complain I feel like I'll come across as one of those bitter old queens for whom nothing is ever good enough and no progress is ever politically correct enough, and I don't want to be that person either.
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Old July 21 2011, 04:00 PM   #33
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Re: Humanoid Sexuality in TrekLit (Minor Spoilers for VGD: Declassifie

But at the same time, what exactly is 'being gay' period, not just 'in name only'? The characters treat the fact that they're attracted to people of the same sex as just one piece of who they are and don't draw attention to it because they live in a world where it is unremarkable. What, are they supposed to shout over every subspace channel something like 'I'M A GAY MAN AND I HAVE A BIG GAY BOYFRIEND'? Or walk around in drag? What would they have to do to not be considered 'gay in name only'?
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Old July 21 2011, 04:14 PM   #34
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Re: Humanoid Sexuality in TrekLit (Minor Spoilers for VGD: Declassifie

DGCatAniSiri wrote: View Post
But at the same time, what exactly is 'being gay' period, not just 'in name only'? The characters treat the fact that they're attracted to people of the same sex as just one piece of who they are and don't draw attention to it because they live in a world where it is unremarkable. What, are they supposed to shout over every subspace channel something like 'I'M A GAY MAN AND I HAVE A BIG GAY BOYFRIEND'? Or walk around in drag? What would they have to do to not be considered 'gay in name only'?
Have a same-sex relationship. Simple as that. Don't have it be something that's asserted or made speeches about, just present it as part of the character's life, in the same matter-of-fact way you'd present a heterosexual character's attractions or romantic involvements.

In other words, do exactly what Trek Lit has been doing with gay/lesbian/bi characters for years already.
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Old July 21 2011, 07:24 PM   #35
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Re: Humanoid Sexuality in TrekLit (Minor Spoilers for VGD: Declassifie

Christopher wrote: View Post
Have a same-sex relationship. Simple as that. Don't have it be something that's asserted or made speeches about, just present it as part of the character's life, in the same matter-of-fact way you'd present a heterosexual character's attractions or romantic involvements.

In other words, do exactly what Trek Lit has been doing with gay/lesbian/bi characters for years already.

I agree with Christoper entirely. That is what I would expect the mainstream viewpoint of homosexuality in the fictional 24th century of Star trek would be.
By then they would know that a certain percentage of the human population would be born with homosexual tendencies, they would have no cultural stigma attached towards the expression of those tendencies, and they would be fully integrated into society.
So if character A or B was a homosexual, any inclusion of their personal life would be rather blahh 'Character A went to his quarters and talked about the tachyon monsters devastation of the Hakkonian planet with Character B before kissing him goodnight and taking a sonic shower'

Most of the normal "romantic" interactions in the novels would also be rather easy to adjust by simply changing the gender of personal pronouns.

Now the hard part would be managing the expectations of the 21ST century audience. Some people would be uncomfortable with overt sexual activity between homosexual characters (although the Star Trek novels are pretty mild in the whole "sex scene" department). And others are very eager to see more homosexual characters as part of their general view that modern fiction should reflect a modern "tolerance" for homosexuality.

My personal view is that the authors should use whatever character relationships that best fit the purpose of writing an engaging and entertaining story.

When external pressure causes them to sacrifice a good story to fulfill some expectation, then all the fans suffer.
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Old July 21 2011, 07:39 PM   #36
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Re: Humanoid Sexuality in TrekLit (Minor Spoilers for VGD: Declassifie

Jedi_Master wrote: View Post
Now the hard part would be managing the expectations of the 21ST century audience. Some people would be uncomfortable with overt sexual activity between homosexual characters (although the Star Trek novels are pretty mild in the whole "sex scene" department).
There have been a couple of pretty overt lesbian scenes in Trek Lit to date. We see T'Prynn and Anna Sandesjo in bed together in Vanguard: Reap the Whirlwind, and there's a sex scene of sorts with Mirror Tasha and Keiko in "A Terrible Beauty" in Mirror Universe: Shards and Shadows. I don't think there have been any male same-sex scenes yet, though.
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Old July 21 2011, 08:47 PM   #37
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Re: Humanoid Sexuality in TrekLit (Minor Spoilers for VGD: Declassifie

^ One such encounter is alluded to in Sarah Shaw's short MU novel Saturn's Children. Intendant Kira overhears two men having sex in the bunk above hers. However, that incident might be described as non-consensual.
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Old July 22 2011, 04:47 AM   #38
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Re: Humanoid Sexuality in TrekLit (Minor Spoilers for VGD: Declassifie

David Mack wrote: View Post
^ One such encounter is alluded to in Sarah Shaw's short MU novel Saturn's Children. Intendant Kira overhears two men having sex in the bunk above hers. However, that incident might be described as non-consensual.
I would say it was definitely non-consensual, as it was described and in keeping with the tendency in Saturn's Children for intimate contact being non-consensual and violent. (Oh, Kira/Bashir; why do I think Mirror Kira isn't one for safe words?)
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Old August 15 2011, 02:14 AM   #39
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Re: Humanoid Sexuality in TrekLit (Minor Spoilers for VGD: Declassifie

While we're discussing LGBT sexuality, I'd love to see a take on it in the Andorian civilization. Since there are 4 sexes, quad mating isn't technically homosexual by their standards, though since 2 are seen as female and 2 as male, I can see the perception by others to be interesting. But what happens if there are same-sex attractions (either real, like zhen/zhen or perceived, like shen/zhen)? Are there "monosexual" Andorians that prefer only one or two of the sexes (including their own), rather than all of the others? If there was such an individual, how would they reconcile a pressure to reproduce to sustain the species with their attractions; would it be acceptable to act on them once children have been successfully produced in a bond and the individual is no longer needed as a fertile contributor? I liked the Shar/Prynn thing, but I would have also loved to see Shar with a male, for example. There are so many possibilities and I would love to see them.
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Old August 15 2011, 11:18 AM   #40
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Re: Humanoid Sexuality in TrekLit (Minor Spoilers for VGD: Declassifie

Novae wrote: View Post
While we're discussing LGBT sexuality, I'd love to see a take on it in the Andorian civilization. Since there are 4 sexes, quad mating isn't technically homosexual by their standards, though since 2 are seen as female and 2 as male, I can see the perception by others to be interesting. But what happens if there are same-sex attractions (either real, like zhen/zhen or perceived, like shen/zhen)? Are there "monosexual" Andorians that prefer only one or two of the sexes (including their own), rather than all of the others? If there was such an individual, how would they reconcile a pressure to reproduce to sustain the species with their attractions; would it be acceptable to act on them once children have been successfully produced in a bond and the individual is no longer needed as a fertile contributor? I liked the Shar/Prynn thing, but I would have also loved to see Shar with a male, for example. There are so many possibilities and I would love to see them.
I think we touched a LOT on that in the Mission Gamma books, as I recall. And for the haters out there, the same-sex attractions among the Andorians were not my idea (although I wrote some of it) but Heather Jarman's, who is a Mormon Sunday School teacher.
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Old August 26 2011, 11:53 AM   #41
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Re: Humanoid Sexuality in TrekLit (Minor Spoilers for VGD: Declassifie

i think part of the problem is that same-sex relationships are not that numerous in trek lit (certainly there are no prominent main characters that are gay), so when a writer kills of a gay character it tends to stand out more (at least for us gay guys).

on a side note Andy Mangels PLEASE get back to writing star trek titan books?
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Old August 26 2011, 03:18 PM   #42
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Re: Humanoid Sexuality in TrekLit (Minor Spoilers for VGD: Declassifie

There is an on-going, majorly developed gay character in S.C.E./Corps of Engineers. Bartholomew (Bart) Faulwell is an openly gay non-com crew member. I haven't read a lot of the series but I believe he is the ship's linguist/cryptography expert.

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Old August 26 2011, 04:31 PM   #43
Corran Horn
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Re: Humanoid Sexuality in TrekLit (Minor Spoilers for VGD: Declassifie

Was readying "The Case of the Colonists Corpse" and I noticed the main computer tech was gay. He was in a relationship with the miner that started the fight in the beginning.
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Old August 26 2011, 04:55 PM   #44
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Re: Humanoid Sexuality in TrekLit (Minor Spoilers for VGD: Declassifie

starri wrote: View Post
I actually thought that part was the oddest thing. I didn't remember him at all, so the way he was mentioned and everyone on the page not only recognized him, but was apparently very close to him was disconcerting, like I'd missed a book or something. It reminded me of Half-Life 2, Episode 2, where Dr. Magnusson is suddenly introduced to the cast as if he had been there the whole time. Yahtzee Crowshaw described it as feeling like you came home and there was a walrus sitting down for dinner with the family and everyone acted like nothing was strange or different.

I really enjoyed the story overall, but I did end up going to Memory Beta the second I was done with it to see if he had, in fact, been around before.
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Old August 26 2011, 04:59 PM   #45
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Re: Humanoid Sexuality in TrekLit (Minor Spoilers for VGD: Declassifie

Xander wrote: View Post
i think part of the problem is that same-sex relationships are not that numerous in trek lit (certainly there are no prominent main characters that are gay), so when a writer kills of a gay character it tends to stand out more (at least for us gay guys).
You must not have read the Star Trek Vanguard series — one of its most important characters is T'Prynn, who is a lesbian. And as another poster just mentioned, there was Bart Faulwell in the Star Trek: Corps of Engineers series; he was a prominent member of the ensemble cast. Both these characters were depicted as having active same-sex romantic relationships. Neither has been killed in their respective series.
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