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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old July 11 2011, 07:47 PM   #376
Flake
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

ATimson wrote: View Post
Art Vandelay wrote: View Post
You are the only 16:9 advocate who is asking for optional widescreen to be included. I respect and support that. It's the best solution we could possibly get.
But it would mean doubling the number of discs in the set, so there's no way in hell CBS would go for it.
With blu-ray I wonder if it is feasible to have an 'intelligent zoom' where the image is pre-cropped by someone to ensure it looks right and can be turned on or off rather than just losing the top and bottom of the picture.
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Old July 12 2011, 05:41 AM   #377
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Flake wrote: View Post
ATimson wrote: View Post
Art Vandelay wrote: View Post
You are the only 16:9 advocate who is asking for optional widescreen to be included. I respect and support that. It's the best solution we could possibly get.
But it would mean doubling the number of discs in the set, so there's no way in hell CBS would go for it.
With blu-ray I wonder if it is feasible to have an 'intelligent zoom' where the image is pre-cropped by someone to ensure it looks right and can be turned on or off rather than just losing the top and bottom of the picture.
If there's enough picture on the sides, I think that would be possible, but I don't believe there is.

I recall reading that the recent "Highlander" TV series blu-rays had, instead of black bars on the sides, colored bars that would sort of shift to match the on-screen action. I don't know if fans found it more distracting than not, but it was interesting to see someone trying something different with the frame differences.
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Old July 12 2011, 04:28 PM   #378
AviTrek
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

I believe some of the Disney Blu Rays have an option for bars that look like painted frames rather than straight black bars.
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Old July 12 2011, 04:48 PM   #379
ATimson
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

AviTrek wrote: View Post
I believe some of the Disney Blu Rays have an option for bars that look like painted frames rather than straight black bars.
True, but both of you are talking about adding mattes to the side, which is easily done with Blu-rays; that's very different from selectively zooming the picture, which would (a) not look very good, and (b) probably isn't possible.
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Old July 12 2011, 09:48 PM   #380
Flake
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Ensure that the original 4:3 framing is left intact and have this selected by default. The 4:3 area will be remasted to 1080p.

The selective zooming can be an option for people who would prefer to fill the screen, rather than simply zooming into the centre of the 4:3 area the zoom is carefully placed on each shot to ensure nothing important is cut off and it still looks ok.

Maybe this can be done with blu-rays?! I have no idea.
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Old July 12 2011, 10:36 PM   #381
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

What you're describing is essentially pan and scan, only instead of going from a widescreen image of some sort to a 1.33:1 image, you'll be doing the reverse. What it would come down to would be somebody supervising the process. Judging from the widescreen version of the original series that have been produced (a straight crop from 1.33:1 to widescreen) I doubt Paramount is willing to spend the money to do that.
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Old July 12 2011, 11:15 PM   #382
ATimson
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Harvey wrote: View Post
What you're describing is essentially pan and scan, only instead of going from a widescreen image of some sort to a 1.33:1 image, you'll be doing the reverse.
Tilt-and-scan.
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Old July 12 2011, 11:16 PM   #383
LitmusDragon
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

I was going to make a post defending a 16:9 conversion, but then I realized there's no guaranteeing that they would do it right. I've been watching Seinfeld from a 720p feed recently and I think it's a great example, although there is the occasional scene here and there that looks cramped. If the original film elements allows that kind of restoration I'm all for it. If they were basically going to re-frame the existing 4:3 shots as 16:9, I do not want that.

The TOS precedent seems to suggest that they would go 4:3 anyway. In the TOS case they actually had 16:9 masters they'd made but ended up releasing the 4:3 ones.
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Old July 12 2011, 11:34 PM   #384
Flake
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Harvey wrote: View Post
What you're describing is essentially pan and scan, only instead of going from a widescreen image of some sort to a 1.33:1 image, you'll be doing the reverse. What it would come down to would be somebody supervising the process. Judging from the widescreen version of the original series that have been produced (a straight crop from 1.33:1 to widescreen) I doubt Paramount is willing to spend the money to do that.
Ahh yes thats it! I am describing a pan-and-scan kind of thing! Done in such a way that does not require two different versions on the same disc but software in the blu-ray player modifies the zoom area on the fly
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Old July 12 2011, 11:40 PM   #385
Flake
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

If they re-scan the film at 16:9 they will have to watch every second of every reel of un-edited film for the entire show to make sure there is no equipment etc in the shot! Maybe this is why it is taking so long? - Though on the other hand they might be 100% sure that this never happened in which case I bet they go 16:9!

I think we will have to wait till next year for an annoucement because TNG is 25 next year. TOS-R announcement came out of the blue for the 40th anniversary iirc.
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Old July 13 2011, 12:52 AM   #386
Harvey
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

ATimson wrote: View Post
Harvey wrote: View Post
What you're describing is essentially pan and scan, only instead of going from a widescreen image of some sort to a 1.33:1 image, you'll be doing the reverse.
Tilt-and-scan.
Technically the right term, but it just sounds wrong. Actually, it will be quite amusing if tilt-and-scan becomes the standard, considering how much a certain segment pf people used to complain that widescreen home video was missing half the picture.

Flake wrote: View Post
If they re-scan the film at 16:9 they will have to watch every second of every reel of un-edited film for the entire show to make sure there is no equipment etc in the shot! Maybe this is why it is taking so long? - Though on the other hand they might be 100% sure that this never happened in which case I bet they go 16:9!
I believe someone else pointed out that even if there isn't equipment, crew, or other things on the edges of the 35mm frame, the film used doesn't have enough space for them to simply expand the edges to fit a 16:9 frame -- some image cropping will still have to be done on the top and/or bottom. I'm not sure what the exact technical details are, though.
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Old July 13 2011, 04:16 AM   #387
JJohnson
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Harvey wrote: View Post
ATimson wrote: View Post
Harvey wrote: View Post
What you're describing is essentially pan and scan, only instead of going from a widescreen image of some sort to a 1.33:1 image, you'll be doing the reverse.
Tilt-and-scan.
Technically the right term, but it just sounds wrong. Actually, it will be quite amusing if tilt-and-scan becomes the standard, considering how much a certain segment pf people used to complain that widescreen home video was missing half the picture.

Flake wrote: View Post
If they re-scan the film at 16:9 they will have to watch every second of every reel of un-edited film for the entire show to make sure there is no equipment etc in the shot! Maybe this is why it is taking so long? - Though on the other hand they might be 100% sure that this never happened in which case I bet they go 16:9!
I believe someone else pointed out that even if there isn't equipment, crew, or other things on the edges of the 35mm frame, the film used doesn't have enough space for them to simply expand the edges to fit a 16:9 frame -- some image cropping will still have to be done on the top and/or bottom. I'm not sure what the exact technical details are, though.
And my sister was one of those people. "It only takes up half the screen! I can see what's important with full frame!" "But you're missing out half the picture..."
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Old July 13 2011, 11:25 AM   #388
Start Wreck
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Harvey wrote: View Post
I believe someone else pointed out that even if there isn't equipment, crew, or other things on the edges of the 35mm frame, the film used doesn't have enough space for them to simply expand the edges to fit a 16:9 frame -- some image cropping will still have to be done on the top and/or bottom. I'm not sure what the exact technical details are, though.
Posted before, but all details are here: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/in...ent_vs_tng.htm

Although it looks fine for those scenes, I think it would be far easier to just maintain the existing ratio for the whole series. Firstly because it actually is easier (and Paramount won't want to make more work for themselves if they can avoid it) and secondly because this is supposed to be a restoration project, not a remake.

And thirdly, screw the pillar-box hat0rz!!
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Old July 13 2011, 07:25 PM   #389
milo bloom
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Start Wreck wrote: View Post

And thirdly, screw the pillar-box hat0rz!!

Huzzah!


Seriously, I was watching some old academy ratio (4x3) cartoons last night* on my widescreen TV and I did not have an issue with the pillarboxing at all. A couple of tricks: when you bring home a new TV turn the brightness down. A little more. Little more. Keep going. Little bit more. Little more. And... a little bit more. Seriously, TVs come from the manufacturer with the brightness set to "torch" mode, so that if a store pulls one out to be a floor model, it will look good under the harsh flourescent lighting. The lighting in your home is a different beast.
Now, after you've turned down the brightness, leave it down for a week or two of regular watching. Then, and only then, start easing it back up a hair here and there. If you really want to get it right, look for one of those DVDs that will walk you through all the brightness and contrast settings on your TV and surround sound setup. Some DVDs even have a THX calibration function that will move you in the right direction.

Second, adjust the lighting in the room your TV is in. One trick is to have soft lights behind the TV so that the changing brightness of scenes on the TV doesn't let your eyes focus on the black bars. My TV is actually in our basement, and I was watching in total darkness, with the TV's brightness adjusted, and I would have sworn I was watching on a 4x3 screen.

These tweaks will really help your viewing experience, and if not, then you just need to learn to watch the material and not the black bars



Ub Iwerks if anyone cares.
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Old July 13 2011, 10:08 PM   #390
Timelord Victorious
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

LCARS framing instead of black bars?
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