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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Future of Trek

Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

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Old November 23 2010, 06:50 PM   #61
jefferiestubes8
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Re: Would it really matter if the next Trek series were on linear TV?

The Skullcowboy wrote: View Post
It a really valid question, I'd probably be for it if it was on a per-episode basis,
aha, most likely though if there were a good business model created it would be a subscription-season-pass model.
But for a on-demand streaming CBS Television would really have to put out better scripted 13 episodes rather than 22 if there were no linear TV series.
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Old November 24 2010, 04:23 PM   #62
jefferiestubes8
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Re: Would it really matter if the next Trek series were on linear TV?

An interesting article on video syndication via the Internet:

an emerging and significant trend: the early formation of what I would term the "syndicated video economy." By this I mean to suggest that I'm seeing more and more industry participants' strategies - in both media and technology - start from the proposition that the broadband video industry will only succeed if video assets are widely dispersed and revenue creatively apportioned.

For content providers the notion of widespread video syndication big change in their business approach. In the past year I think we've observed content providers of all stripes transition from "aggregating eyeballs", to "accessing eyeballs," wherever they may live now or in the future: portals, social networks, portable devices, game consoles, etc. Underlying this shift is the realization that advertising-based revenues are going to fuel the broadband video industry for the foreseeable future. The ad model requires scale and syndication is the best way to deliver it.
This shift by content providers has been accompanied by a loosening of traditional tightly-controlled, scarcity-driven distribution strategies, an acknowledgement that fighting newly-empowered consumers is a futile exercise.
Disney's Stage 9 digital studio, which premiered with YouTube and explicitly plans to tap into broadband video hubs.
Welcome to the "Syndicated Video Economy"
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Old November 30 2010, 01:37 AM   #63
jefferiestubes8
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Microsoft XBox in 2012 with a la carte programming

Microsoft is in talks with HBO and Showtime to broadcast and sell a la carte video through the XBox.
http://techcrunch.com/2010/11/29/mic...-up-broadcast/

The software powerhouse has held talks with TV networks to create a new subscription-based TV service on its Xbox gaming console
a service may not arrive for another 12 months, but early discussions have been productive.
One scenario under consideration by Microsoft is to create a new TV service on its Xbox gaming console that would establish a "virtual cable operator." The service would charge a monthly fee for access through the Xbox to networks such as ABC, NBC, Fox, CBS, ESPN or CNN, according to two sources familiar with the plans.
Microsoft is also exploring the possibility of creating programing packages for customers, setting up a bundle of sports or children shows, for example, these people said.
In addition, it could sell more individual channels, such as an HBO or Showtime, directly to subscribers. It already has Walt Disney Co's ESPN on the Xbox Live online service.
Nov 29, 2010
Reuters report
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AS2E120101129

Looks like Hulu, Google TV, Netflix, and Microsoft are all trying to be the next top streaming provider. 2012 looks like the big shakeout year for HD video streaming and ala carte programming.

For better or worse, the “channel” – meaning a group of programs that appear one after the other interspersed with commercials – may be going away.
http://techcrunch.com/2010/11/29/mic...-up-broadcast/

Perhaps a tier of the future could be VOD-only, where you purchase programs either individually or on a metered basis rather than accept them in a linear stream.
http://paidcontent.org/article/419-w...-pandoras-box/
The very heart of what this thread is about...

By 2014 or 2015 it may be a new landscape and a Trek series may not go to a linear TV channel but rather a Trek exclusive on-demand channel on Microsoft's XBOX Live HD network and a couple of other providers.

Last edited by jefferiestubes8; November 30 2010 at 02:05 AM.
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Old November 30 2010, 01:58 AM   #64
drazzz52923849
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Re: Would it really matter if the next Trek series were on linear TV?

If it had every bit of greatnes that TNG had times 1000, MAYBE. But otherwise, NO.
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Old January 23 2011, 08:00 PM   #65
jefferiestubes8
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Re: Would it really matter if the next Trek series were on linear TV?

Janko Roettgers @ Giga Om has a nice analysis piece on "Why Hulu Didn’t Save Caprica".
This may give us an indication as to why linear TV may be important for the next Trek TV series.

Jan. 21, 2011,
http://gigaom.com/video/why-hulu-did...-save-caprica/
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Old January 23 2011, 09:17 PM   #66
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Would it really matter if the next Trek series were on linear TV?

Or everyone could just read the original blastr article which clears up a lot of stubborn misinformation about whether Neilsens are accurate (as far as anyone knows, they are), whether networks have it in for sci fi in particular (nope, TV is just a tough biz) and whether online viewing matters worth a damn (not yet, that's for sure).

The trend is definitely towards free TV being marooned with only the broadest-reach content, with CBS' lineup being the poster child for that approach. Sci fi will migrate to various sorts of paid models, of which there are two successful ones: basic and premium cable, which vary basically according to how much money goes to produce the shows. Getting consumers to pony up enough money to matter, for still other pay schemes, will be difficult. Isn't one cable bill enough?

I think online TV will never be successful until the content creators realize they have to do something that people can't get from their basic and premium cable subscriptions, which will motivate them to add to, or even replace, their current cable fee.

What is that additional thing? Interactivity and socializing. Maybe not interactivity in storytelling, since that easily becomes an unwieldy mess, but the kind of interactivity and socializing you might see right here at TrekBBS, but linked more definitively with the program content.

TV will evolve into something in between the current format of storytelling on the one hand and games on the other. You already see the inklings of this with American Idol, where input from viewers influences the results. There will be ways to adapt that idea to a fictional setting, as games already do.

Maybe the way to do this is to work backwards from the result. What would the ultimate Star Trek entertainment experience be like? Easy: a holosuite story where TrekBBS denizens inhabit avatars that allow them to be Spock, Seven, a Klingon, a tribble or whatever floats their boat. This would need to have more structure than just an open-ended playground, but not be so structured that it's just another video game with one path to "winning."

So, starting from now, what's the next step along the path to that utopian endpoint? Here's one step:

Animation on a cable network is probably the only way Star Trek returns to TV for the forseeable future.

The Clone Wars
has convinced me that animated Star Trek could be viable. And CGI animation will be what creates those Spock and Seven avatars we will be donning one day, so let's get the ball rolling now with a traditional-narrative animated series, which eventually spans both traditional TV delivery and online delivery mediums (with TV migrating to be indistinguishable from online).

And at that point, link the main traditional-narrative series up with game-type audience participation by creating short-run games that spin off of story points from the main series. Make these games low-entry-barrier so that the non-gamers who will make up the bulk of the audience will participate. (There can also be more heavy duty stuff for gamers, in the usual styles, like hand-to-hand combat and flight simulator). And of course there will be plenty of social interaction areas, linked to both the traditional narrative and the games.

From that point, it's all just a question of how fast the technology advances and making the audience comfortable with new styles of interacting with content. The traditional-narrative style will never completely vanish, but it may become a smaller and smaller part of the overall entertainment experience, which will span a much broader range of things, from people creating their own gaming mods to exchanging recipes for making bloodwine and Romulan ale.

Anyway, Paramount and CBS are probably too locked into their hidebound mindsets to really become innovative and create a revolution in the entertainment experience. I hate to say it, but Star Wars is more likely to be leading the charge. They're already more aggressive in games and other spinoffs, and they run bumper ads during TCW touting new online games that viewers can play.

The games have no apparent link to episode content, but that would be so damn easy. "You think Obi-Wan and Anakin really blew this week's fight with Dooku? Log onto www.starwars.com and show us how you'd do better!"

MAN! Why aren't they already doing that?

Anyway, I'm getting sick of talking about hulu and streaming. Those are small potatoes. Let's think much much bigger.

Last edited by Temis the Vorta; January 23 2011 at 10:00 PM.
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Old January 23 2011, 11:09 PM   #67
jefferiestubes8
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CGI holosuite story

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
What is that additional thing? Interactivity and socializing. Maybe not interactivity in storytelling, since that easily becomes an unwieldy mess, but the kind of interactivity and socializing you might see right here at TrekBBS, but linked more definitively with the program content.
Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Maybe the way to do this is to work backwards from the result. What would the ultimate Star Trek entertainment experience be like? Easy: a holosuite story where TrekBBS denizens inhabit avatars
Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
And at that point, link the main traditional-narrative series up with game-type audience participation by creating short-run games that spin off of story points from the main series.
Temis are you talking about this idea I brought up almost 2 years ago?
http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?...7&postcount=31

and this similar idea I mentioned later?
http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?...0&postcount=16
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Old March 16 2011, 02:39 AM   #68
AviTrek
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Re: Would it really matter if the next Trek series were on linear TV?

Change me be upon us. Netflix is rumored to have outbid HBO and AMC for House Of Cards. Link

If this works out, Netflix may be in a position to buy first run rights for a new Star Trek series.
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Old March 18 2011, 10:47 PM   #69
jefferiestubes8
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Re: Would it really matter if the next Trek series were on linear TV?

AviTrek wrote: View Post
If this works out, Netflix may be in a position to buy first run rights for a new Star Trek series.
Yes AviTrek I was thinking about this again. The whole where would a new Star Trek TV series be on television?

Unlike traditional broadcast and cable networks, Netflix won’t be scheduling the show on a certain night and time or running ads to promote it.
hence non-linear TV channel-type distribution.

Media Rights Capital that call for the company to commit to 26 episodes of the show at a cost of tens of millions of dollars. Most striking is that as part of the deal being discussed, MRC would not have to make a test episode or pilot, according to people close to the talks.
Could CBS Television require Netflix or Hulu Plus, YouTube Premium, or Amazon.com premium subscription services to have a similar commitment to take on the Star Trek TV series distribution?

"They could be paying a very high price tag for content that does not find an audience,” said Laura Martin, an analyst with Needham & Co. “No way they will get access to a hit show unless it is by accident."
Now this is where a new Trek series around 2015 would be ideal. The audience exists and demand is there.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/ente...ogramming.html



If House of Cards brings Netflix original drama fans, it might also look to strike deals that would bring reality TV fans, or those who love web series, or how about those who love DVD extras — because we know there are bundles of “extra” or non-published archived content sitting gathering dust that many content owners wouldn’t mind monetizing.
http://gigaom.com/video/why-netflixs...e-aggregation/
Yes like archival raw interviews with Trek actors on sets of various TOS, TNG, VOY, ENT, DS9 series.
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Old March 19 2011, 11:57 PM   #70
Temis the Vorta
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Re: CGI holosuite story

jefferiestubes8 wrote: View Post
Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
What is that additional thing? Interactivity and socializing. Maybe not interactivity in storytelling, since that easily becomes an unwieldy mess, but the kind of interactivity and socializing you might see right here at TrekBBS, but linked more definitively with the program content.
Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Maybe the way to do this is to work backwards from the result. What would the ultimate Star Trek entertainment experience be like? Easy: a holosuite story where TrekBBS denizens inhabit avatars
Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
And at that point, link the main traditional-narrative series up with game-type audience participation by creating short-run games that spin off of story points from the main series.
Temis are you talking about this idea I brought up almost 2 years ago?
http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?...7&postcount=31

and this similar idea I mentioned later?
http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?...0&postcount=16
That's a way to create an environment. Now what do people do with it? How do you get them to pay for it? How do you overcome the barrier to participation that happens with gaming environments - where it's simply too hard for people to jump in, so they don't try. Compare that with the passive brainlessness of TV watching - that's a big gulf.
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Old March 20 2011, 02:24 PM   #71
Jetfire
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Re: Would it really matter if the next Trek series were on linear TV?

Dennis wrote: View Post
I'd find a way to watch it for free.
This. I mean if it airs on CBS or The CW or FOX...then I will sit through the commercials but there is no way I would pay a subscription or pay per episode...I mean if I liked it I would eventually get it on DVD...but I would have to see it relatively free first.

[edit] All the shows I watch now...I watch when it airs for free on TV or watch it online on the Network's website for free.
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Old July 7 2011, 08:20 PM   #72
AviTrek
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Re: Would it really matter if the next Trek series were on linear TV?

It looks like All My Children and One Life To Live will both be continuing online after their ABC run ends this year. Now soaps are much cheaper to produce than sci fi dramas, and there is no news about how many episodes will be produced or what the revenue source will be, but if soaps can make it work financially via an online only approach, then it's possible that someone will take a shot at a sci fi show next.
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Old July 8 2011, 05:34 PM   #73
jefferiestubes8
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Re: Would it really matter if the next Trek series were on linear TV?

AviTrek wrote: View Post
if soaps can make it work financially via an online only approach, then it's possible that someone will take a shot at a sci fi show next.
I think there is a huge difference between soap operas with multigenerational audiences of mostly women and a scifi genre tv show to stream/download via a subscription as people noted here in this thread:
Poll: provider for new Trek series as original series download

A brand new series with this model is totally different than say a Trek TV series that is in it's 4th season on a linear TV channel and threatened with cancellation. With the right # of people subscribing it could be 'saved'.
But for say a new Star Trek series with unknown Trek actors for the cast to get off the ground it is a very hard sell.
It's totally different with someone like Howard Stern who went to Sirius Radio and a bunch of people subscribed. He was basically doing the same style of show.

I think if someone were to try scifi as a subscription based model it would have to be a Battlestar Galactica series or Stargate or another big franchise with a built-in audience such as the next Battlestar Galactica: Blood & Chrome.

I think what would work for a new series may be having the 90 minute pilot in theaters and then have a series as a subscription streaming/download online only.
The pilot could also air on a linear TV channel say a month later after the cinema and then the subscription episodes start say 3 months after the pilot was in digital cinema.
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Old July 8 2011, 05:53 PM   #74
AviTrek
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Re: Would it really matter if the next Trek series were on linear TV?

jefferiestubes8 wrote: View Post

I think if someone were to try scifi as a subscription based model it would have to be a Battlestar Galactica series or Stargate or another big franchise with a built-in audience such as the next Battlestar Galactica: Blood & Chrome.
I think you might be the first person to say BSG and SG are big franchises and Star Trek isn't. In fact, if we put you and Petey in a room together you might annihilate each other.

Even Enterprise showed Star Trek is at least as big a franchise/draw as BSG/SG. I would argue it's still larger, but the difference we're talking about is minor. Don't get me wrong, I think it will be incredibly hard to launch a new show online. But with Temis arguing that Star Trek could attract 1m viewers to Showtime and pay $15/month subscription, I would think that Star Trek could draw viewers to an online first run show too.

I'm not saying the finances make sense yet, and I doubt CBS would want to experiment with a marquee franchise, but if a soap can be financially viable online with soap viewers, I would imagine sci fi can't be too far behind.
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Old July 8 2011, 06:28 PM   #75
jefferiestubes8
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Showtime vs. Hulu Plus vs. Youtube Premium

AviTrek wrote: View Post
jefferiestubes8 wrote: View Post
I think if someone were to try scifi as a subscription based model it would have to be a Battlestar Galactica series or Stargate or another big franchise with a built-in audience such as the next Battlestar Galactica: Blood & Chrome.
I think you might be the first person to say BSG and SG are big franchises and Star Trek isn't.
AviTrek i was not saying anything about the size of Star Trek's fanbase or the Nielsen ratings of ENT or past Trek TV series ratings. I was referring to your quote of
AviTrek wrote: View Post
if soaps can make it work financially via an online only approach, then it's possible that someone will take a shot at a sci fi show next.
You did not mention CBS Television and I was not thinking that CBS Television would be the one to take a shot since its been said all over TrekBBS that the CBS Television executives that control the Star Trek TV property wouldn't want to put it on television right now and most likely not want to put it on the Internet right now as a new series.
So I was only discussing other properties of other studios that may be interested since they currently have series in production.




AviTrek wrote: View Post
with Temis arguing that Star Trek could attract 1m viewers to Showtime and pay $15/month subscription, I would think that Star Trek could draw viewers to an online first run show too.
That is pretty much the same thing as
jefferiestubes8 wrote: View Post
It all depends on what kind of audience Showtime wants to bring to itself and new subscribers.
Look what Sirius satellite radio did with Howard Stern a few years ago. It is possible Star Trek could be on a premium cable channel and the fans who don't want to pay the monthly fee can just by the DVD/Blu-ray 6-10 months later.
15/month for a subscription of a new Trek TV series for say 4 episodes (1 per week) is steep for only Trek.
I came up with this other thought for a subscription for say $5./month
jefferiestubes8 wrote: View Post
If people had the option say a special subscription in addition to Hulu Plus (already @ $9.95/month) of another $5. as a subscription to watch the next Trek TV series WITHOUT advertising would you do it?
Or if YouTube had it solely as a paid subscription.

Last edited by jefferiestubes8; July 8 2011 at 09:01 PM. Reason: fixed a quote coding.
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