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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old July 6 2011, 06:08 PM   #91
AuntKate
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Re: An Open Invitation to Janeway Fans

^^I looked through the Star Trek: Online book and, while I realize that she's still alive in it, I had the dickens of a time finding her. She's alive, but we aren't hearing about her much.
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Old July 6 2011, 06:27 PM   #92
Kestrel
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Re: An Open Invitation to Janeway Fans

Well, most novels are set in the Prime continuity, that's a given. But who knows, they may well go back to that 'verse.

There's also the Myriad Universes collections and the surely aforementioned "Places of Exile." It's unlikely to be followed up on specifically, but the concept is limitless by its nature. I've no idea if there's plans to do Myriad Universes stories, but I really really hope they do. So the mechanic you're suggesting does exist.
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Old July 6 2011, 09:59 PM   #93
AuntKate
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Re: An Open Invitation to Janeway Fans

Kestrel wrote: View Post
Well, most novels are set in the Prime continuity, that's a given. But who knows, they may well go back to that 'verse.

There's also the Myriad Universes collections and the surely aforementioned "Places of Exile." It's unlikely to be followed up on specifically, but the concept is limitless by its nature. I've no idea if there's plans to do Myriad Universes stories, but I really really hope they do. So the mechanic you're suggesting does exist.
I wish they would, too, but I'm not holding my breath. Out of three anthologies (nine stories/novelettes), only one was Voyager, and I thought it was mediocre, at best, just another "oops, we're going to have to settle somewhere" story that has been done better countless times in fanfic. Plus, I thought the Janeway was pretty much the Pocket Book stereotype--arrogant, controlling, cold, distant. If they write more, I hope someone writes it who can capture the more complex Janeway that I saw on the screen (and I think Beyer could easily do it).
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Old July 6 2011, 10:37 PM   #94
Tidus79001
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Re: An Open Invitation to Janeway Fans

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
if you bring Janeway back, i swear i will never buy another VOY novel again. in fact, i might stop buying all 24C novels and only buy Vanguard.
Why do you feel so threatened by Janeway that you would want to deny her fans of her return?

There are a great number of Voyager fans out there & they like Voyager the way that it was. Non Voyager fans should quit expecting Voyager to be completely re-worked so that it is to their liking. If you don't like it go read the other Star Trek novel like you threatened to do & leave the rest of us to enjoy Voyager in peace.

Well we certainly won't miss you. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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Old July 6 2011, 11:29 PM   #95
froot
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Re: An Open Invitation to Janeway Fans

AuntKate wrote: View Post
Kestrel wrote: View Post
Well, most novels are set in the Prime continuity, that's a given. But who knows, they may well go back to that 'verse.

There's also the Myriad Universes collections and the surely aforementioned "Places of Exile." It's unlikely to be followed up on specifically, but the concept is limitless by its nature. I've no idea if there's plans to do Myriad Universes stories, but I really really hope they do. So the mechanic you're suggesting does exist.
I wish they would, too, but I'm not holding my breath. Out of three anthologies (nine stories/novelettes), only one was Voyager, and I thought it was mediocre, at best, just another "oops, we're going to have to settle somewhere" story that has been done better countless times in fanfic. Plus, I thought the Janeway was pretty much the Pocket Book stereotype--arrogant, controlling, cold, distant. If they write more, I hope someone writes it who can capture the more complex Janeway that I saw on the screen (and I think Beyer could easily do it).
OH GOOD someone else disliked 'Places of Exile." To be honest, I really liked the idea behind it - as far as "oh no, let's settle on a planet" stories go, it was cool. I'm a sucker for city ships.

But, like you said, KJ was OOC something fierce and like 50% of the story was just complaining about the series. Felt like reading a TBBS thread. I think KJ was only in there to be the shopping bag for Chakotay's baby - 'cause man, she was written badly, like a big jerk. If I can't even enjoy the J/C, something's wrong!

I'm okay with the alternate universe-type books and STO, actually. I just hope they eventually knock out a good VOY story. I can wait nicely. Beyer, Jarman, and Golden have all written pretty cool KJs, IMO.
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Old July 6 2011, 11:41 PM   #96
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: An Open Invitation to Janeway Fans

AuntKate wrote: View Post
^^I looked through the Star Trek: Online book and, while I realize that she's still alive in it, I had the dickens of a time finding her. She's alive, but we aren't hearing about her much.
In the book she commands the USS Tucker on Starfleet's annual survey of the Hobus Nebula, and gives us a nice technobabble-rich account of how STXI's impossible supernova was impossible. 30 years later, Starfleet still don't have a clue what happened.
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Old July 6 2011, 11:49 PM   #97
BillJ
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Re: An Open Invitation to Janeway Fans

Tidus79001 wrote: View Post
captcalhoun wrote: View Post
if you bring Janeway back, i swear i will never buy another VOY novel again. in fact, i might stop buying all 24C novels and only buy Vanguard.
Why do you feel so threatened by Janeway that you would want to deny her fans of her return?
You know... I'm actually a moderate fan of Voyager, owning four of seven seasons on DVD and viewed the Equinox two-parter via Netflix last night. I rank Janeway above Sisko and Archer and just behind Picard in the hierarchy of Trek captains. One more than one occasion I noted to my wife the similarities I saw between Janeway and Jim Kirk (my favorite by a mile Trek character).

I found that Janeway, like Kirk, died "making a difference". Her sacrifice saved millions and I honestly can't think of a better way for a heroic character to go out. I think the "Shatnerverse" did a disservice to the character of Kirk, making a mockery of his sacrifice. I feel the same would be true with a magic reset button on Janeway's demise.

While I like Janeway, the series is Star Trek: Voyager not Star Trek: Janeway. To bring back Janeway now would simply roll-back the work of Kirsten Beyer to make the cardboard background characters of the series into living breathing people and return us to the status quo of the TV series. No thanks.

I've been glib towards the "Bring Back Janeway" crowd because of the pure fact they just cannot act the way they act and have a firm grasp of reality. I actually saw one poster accuse Pocket books and Peter David of "murdering their dreams". I've seen others accuse Pocket of being anti-female without seeming to grasp the fact that the editor and the person in charge (from Paramount) of "green-lighting" the novel in which Janeway died were both women.

For me, Star Trek: Voyager ended with The Farther Shore. Voyager like a series like Gilligan's Island had a definite shelf-life. Once the goal was achieved there was no real reason for them to stay together. I give the highest praise to Kirsten Beyer for proving me wrong. But I can guarantee that I would not have enjoyed those novels if Janeway had continued to be the eight-hundred pound gorilla in the room. YMMV.
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Last edited by BillJ; July 7 2011 at 01:56 AM.
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Old July 7 2011, 12:16 AM   #98
froot
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Re: An Open Invitation to Janeway Fans

BillJ wrote: View Post
I've been glib towards the "Bring Back Janeway" crowd because of the pure fact they just cannot act the way the act and have a firm grasp of reality.
Look, there are people out there shouting so loud the rest of us aren't even being heard. By "crowd" you actually mean a few people out of a whole hell of a lot more. Beyer never responds to anyone except the people making the most fuss and the back-and-forth quote wars hide any other discussion.

Do you guys just skim 80% of posts in threads like this or something so that you can keep this weird idea of a bunch of frothy-mouthed fangirls alive in your heads?

There's a lot of KJ fans who can and do read the newer books, some who don't, and others who would love to see the character back but don't really get involved in the melee. I know that shatters the precious illusion we're all morons, but there you have it.
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Old July 7 2011, 12:22 AM   #99
BillJ
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Re: An Open Invitation to Janeway Fans

froot wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
I've been glib towards the "Bring Back Janeway" crowd because of the pure fact they just cannot act the way the act and have a firm grasp of reality.
Look, there are people out there shouting so loud the rest of us aren't even being heard. By "crowd" you actually mean a few people out of a whole hell of a lot more. Beyer never responds to anyone except the people making the most fuss and the back-and-forth quote wars hide any other discussion.

Do you guys just skim 80% of posts in threads like this or something so that you can keep this weird idea of a bunch of frothy-mouthed fangirls alive in your heads?
The ones who scream loudest and the most often usually drown out the more "down-to-earth" people. Just look at the Tea Party. Perhaps the more "down-to-earth" BBJ people need to renounce the more radical elements to be taken seriously.
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Old July 7 2011, 12:41 AM   #100
NoStrings
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Re: An Open Invitation to Janeway Fans

Froot is quite right. There are plenty of us who love Janeway and do hate that she's dead. Many of us are satisfied to simply voice our displeasure when given a chance and let it go at that. It's hard for the majority of us to get involved in discussions like this at all, however, because many of us cross circles on other boards and tensions always get too high with certain individuals to make it worth saying a word.
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Old July 7 2011, 12:57 AM   #101
froot
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Re: An Open Invitation to Janeway Fans

BillJ wrote: View Post
froot wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
I've been glib towards the "Bring Back Janeway" crowd because of the pure fact they just cannot act the way the act and have a firm grasp of reality.
Look, there are people out there shouting so loud the rest of us aren't even being heard. By "crowd" you actually mean a few people out of a whole hell of a lot more. Beyer never responds to anyone except the people making the most fuss and the back-and-forth quote wars hide any other discussion.

Do you guys just skim 80% of posts in threads like this or something so that you can keep this weird idea of a bunch of frothy-mouthed fangirls alive in your heads?
The ones who scream loudest and the most often usually drown out the more "down-to-earth" people. Just look at the Tea Party. Perhaps the more "down-to-earth" BBJ people need to renounce the more radical elements to be taken seriously.
I don't see why that's necessary. Honestly, most of the posts in here are pretty civil. (Well, in a TrekBBS kind of way.) I think folks are just skimming to quote-farm some of the most extreme examples, probably written out of anger.

I'm an uppity loudmouth myself, so I can't much renounce myself anyway. But I guess I'd encourage anyone wandering in to realize we're not all out to accuse Beyer of anything or think all this is rooted in sexism (although I did feel that way a year ago) or some other deeply sinister plot. She's a great author, IMO.

I'd say the lion's share of displeasure for this whole thing is felt towards PD anyway. At least that's how it is for me.

Last edited by froot; July 7 2011 at 01:13 AM.
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Old July 7 2011, 01:16 AM   #102
NoStrings
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Re: An Open Invitation to Janeway Fans

froot wrote: View Post

I don't see why that's necessary. Honestly, most of the posts in here are pretty civil. (Well, in a TrekBBS kind of way.) Honestly, I think folks are just skimming to quote-farm some of the most extreme examples, probably written out of anger.

I'm an uppity loudmouth myself, so I can't much renounce myself anyway. But I guess I'd encourage anyone wandering in to realize we're not all out to accuse Beyer of anything or think all this is rooted in sexism (although I did feel that way a year ago) or some other deeply sinister plot. She's a great author, IMO.

I'd say the lion's share of displeasure for this whole thing is felt towards PD anyway. At least that's how it is for me.
And let's be honest, BillJ...with ourselves and with each other, if we could. To be sooo into a TV show that you join a fandom board, you have to possess some level of zealous imbalance. I mean...you just do. I admit this about myself at least! But as always, there are levels and degrees. Some of us are just good old Janeway fans who loved her character and the show. We're the ones who are unhappy she was killed, particularly about how she was killed...by an author who doesn't seem to have cared about her character or liked her, and we will say so, but not scream it. We will also tend probably not to be too excited about books she's not in.

And there are those of us who will frame a napkin on our walls just because Kate Mulgrew's lips touched it...those kinds.

And, I'll bet you have just as many of both kinds in your particular niche of the fandom as we do. But please, if you are able to make the distinction between Janeway fans who aren't thrilled she's dead and those that are loudest, I'd appreciate it and will promise to afford you the same courtesy, should the need ever arise.
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Old July 7 2011, 01:28 AM   #103
froot
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Re: An Open Invitation to Janeway Fans

NoStrings wrote: View Post
And there are those of us who will frame a napkin on our walls just because Kate Mulgrew's lips touched it...those kinds.


Dammit. *slowly steps in front of framed napkin*

...What?
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Old July 7 2011, 01:32 AM   #104
NoStrings
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Re: An Open Invitation to Janeway Fans

froot wrote: View Post
NoStrings wrote: View Post
And there are those of us who will frame a napkin on our walls just because Kate Mulgrew's lips touched it...those kinds.


Dammit. *slowly steps in front of framed napkin*

...What?
Oops! Yes, quickly, let me totally clear with that one comment. I am NOT saying the loud "Bring Back Janeway" individuals necessarily ARE the hypothetical napkin framers. Just that we express our admiration for the character at different volumes and feel deeply about different causes to varying degrees.
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Old July 7 2011, 02:41 AM   #105
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Re: An Open Invitation to Janeway Fans

froot wrote: View Post
I'm an uppity loudmouth myself,
Me too God Bless America!

What I'm really looking forward to being though is a crabby old lady. On that happy day I'm going to buy the largest cane my old flesh can carry and THWACK people who tick me off with it. Then I will waddle home, settle into my comfy chair and select a title from my stack of books featuring you-know-who. Hey, it's a dream...

In the meantime here are a few thoughts:

This thread could have gotten a heck of lot worse so I appreciate how it's gone so far. There have been some personal insults but luckily things didn't escalate. Just a reminder to those who feel they need to resort to that flaming is against the rules. Don't do it. You will be warned. If you see someone flaming just hit the 'notify' button and a mod will handle it. If there's someone who annoys you to the point where you're tempted to fall off the flaming wagon then just put that person on 'ignore' (note: announcing in public you've put them on 'ignore' is warnable). After all, isn't life short enough?

Now back to the important stuff like if there's an internet option for those of us who can't make the panel how on earth will we get crab cakes?
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