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Old July 6 2011, 08:25 AM   #1
NextGen123
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The Return of Janeway

I really liked Kirsten Beyer's "Children of the Storm" and have read all three of the Voyager books. The return of Janeway, while it will get some readers back, will unravel all the progress that has been made with the characters.

After the return of Spock, Kirk, Tasha Yar, Ben Sisko, I have to wonder what's the point of the story if everything goes back to the way it was?

I thought the books moved beyond the status quo. It makes me cringe when I see the books only cater to the causual fan. If Pocket Books haven't noticed; the space for Star Trek books is getting smaller and smaller at book chains.
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Old July 6 2011, 08:53 AM   #2
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Re: The Return of Janeway

IMO, this might work better in the other thread already rolling about the subject.

Then again, it has sort of turned into a back-and-forth quotefest.

The term "Casual fan" gives me WoW forum flashbacks, but I suppose it is a good point.
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Old July 6 2011, 09:18 AM   #3
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Re: The Return of Janeway

If I got to Holiday with Suzie Plaxton, I'd wish it never ended.

Silly Janeway.
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Old July 6 2011, 09:23 AM   #4
Gov Kodos
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Re: The Return of Janeway

I haven't read a Trek book in ages, but I see little point to trying to keep to some comic book nerd level of continuity between all the books. Why not allow authors to create their own stories choosing whatever, if anything from other books, that they wish to be canon?
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Old July 6 2011, 12:55 PM   #5
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Re: The Return of Janeway

Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
I haven't read a Trek book in ages, but I see little point to trying to keep to some comic book nerd level of continuity between all the books. Why not allow authors to create their own stories choosing whatever, if anything from other books, that they wish to be canon?
Yeah, I liked how it was like that in the old days.
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Old July 6 2011, 01:43 PM   #6
Gov Kodos
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Re: The Return of Janeway

Finn wrote: View Post
Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
I haven't read a Trek book in ages, but I see little point to trying to keep to some comic book nerd level of continuity between all the books. Why not allow authors to create their own stories choosing whatever, if anything from other books, that they wish to be canon?
Yeah, I liked how it was like that in the old days.
While there are sure to be advantages to using an extended continuity, there are sure to be disadvantages as well. Beyond strait-jacketing writers into a frame work of prior events, I wonder whether it drives off more readers than it is worth.

While an audience may be there for a continuous set of adventures, how many do the lose when an undesirable event is written- like Janeway dying. Further, what of those who might read Voyager stories or other series, but don't want to commit to 3, 4, 5, or more books in addition to one tale that catches their eye just so they can follow the tale of interest.

Particularly with no existent series, now seems a time like the late sixties and seventies to embrace writer creativity, rather than editorial continuity.
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Old July 6 2011, 02:26 PM   #7
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Re: The Return of Janeway

I thought several of the writers have come in here and debunked the idea of "editorial continuity" and kept the books consistent because they wanted to.
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Old July 6 2011, 02:28 PM   #8
Gov Kodos
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Re: The Return of Janeway

BillJ wrote: View Post
I thought several of the writers have come in here and debunked the idea of "editorial continuity" and kept the books consistent because they wanted to.
The point isn't about the existence of an editorial continuity, rather that getting away from continuity would be to the benefit of the genre.
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Old July 6 2011, 03:17 PM   #9
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Re: The Return of Janeway

Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
I haven't read a Trek book in ages, but I see little point to trying to keep to some comic book nerd level of continuity between all the books. Why not allow authors to create their own stories choosing whatever, if anything from other books, that they wish to be canon?
Wow! Reading this was like a breath of fresh air! I miss the days when the only "canon" we had to bother with was what was aired on TV and in the movies. I think the books have literally painted themselves into a corner by sticking to a "comic book nerd level of continuity." It does stifle creativity, and it deprives those of us who are greater fans of the televised Trek from being able to read about the characters we know and love. And I think it does intimidate new readers from picking up a Trek book at the bookstore. It's amazing how many times in the Literature forum that someone posts a question about "where I should start" in reading today. I'd love to see the novels return to more stand alone books.
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Old July 6 2011, 04:53 PM   #10
NextGen123
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Re: The Return of Janeway

I disagree with most of the board. I liked the fact that the storyline moved beyond the series. I liked the editors Ordover and Marco Palmeri who at least tried to make sure the books went into futher seasons without forgetting what went before.

The stand alone novels for me are just repeats of what went before. I know in CBS/Paramount/Pocket books will cater to what the fans want, but it's sad to see that everything that was established by the above editors(in terms of a continuing story line) will put aside to sell stand alone novels that don't have any long term plan.

I can see why David Mack is concluding his Vanguard saga. Why have other authors stretch out the story until it's so watered down that it becomes a pale imatation of what came before?
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Old July 6 2011, 05:00 PM   #11
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Re: The Return of Janeway

I have to wonder with David Mack concluding his series;if Peter David might do the same with his yearly New Frontier novels? I don't think I would buy New Frontier if it was written by anyone else but Peter David.
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Old July 6 2011, 06:06 PM   #12
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Re: The Return of Janeway

Why is it either/or? Why can't there be some of both types of books?
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Old July 7 2011, 01:07 AM   #13
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Re: The Return of Janeway

I am not saying there shouldn't be standalone novels. I prefer that there should be some type of logical (as Spock would say) continuing story through all books. The Typhon Pact series was epic story telling that made Trek books out of the ordinary. To go back to the numbered books would be a step back. That's all I have been seeing of late. The single story books were what I thought the editors were attempting to have only a few of.

Last edited by NextGen123; July 7 2011 at 01:08 AM. Reason: incorrect spelling
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Old July 7 2011, 01:27 AM   #14
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Re: The Return of Janeway

AuntKate wrote: View Post
Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
I haven't read a Trek book in ages, but I see little point to trying to keep to some comic book nerd level of continuity between all the books. Why not allow authors to create their own stories choosing whatever, if anything from other books, that they wish to be canon?
Wow! Reading this was like a breath of fresh air! I miss the days when the only "canon" we had to bother with was what was aired on TV and in the movies. I think the books have literally painted themselves into a corner by sticking to a "comic book nerd level of continuity."
I agree, I just posted in the Treklit thread a bit about finding the latest books unwieldy because of all the story lines crammed in together but I didn't think about how the canon imperative is a part of that. I do think that it is possible to have a continuing canon and not end up like this however. Maybe not having all the books about the latest OVERPOWERING THREAT TO THE KNOWN GALAXY. Once that is your story obviously you can't write a nifty book about Picard's archaeological adventures in the middle of it because everyone has to be on the front line of the battle and all stories have to focus on that. Blech. Never liked the overwhelming threat to the galaxy storyline in anything. I would love to have smaller stories. I'm looking up at my Treklit shelves above my screen and I see the IKS Gorkon series.. that was great stuff. Terok Nor by James Swallow, my favorite Trek book ever, a trilogy telling the story of the beginning and middle of the Cardassian occupation of Bajor, Gul Dukat's rise in power. There are so many stories like this in all the series that could be told! And you wouldn't have to cram the Aventine, the Titan, the UFP President, Picard's crew, Voyager, Vaughn, and everyone else and his dog into it.

So, thinking as I go along, I think the canon thing could still be perfectly doable it's just the direction they have chosen to take with the kind of story they want to tell.
It does stifle creativity, and it deprives those of us who are greater fans of the televised Trek from being able to read about the characters we know and love. And I think it does intimidate new readers from picking up a Trek book at the bookstore. It's amazing how many times in the Literature forum that someone posts a question about "where I should start" in reading today. I'd love to see the novels return to more stand alone books.
And it's amazing how irritated some posters there get at that question.

I lent my daughter Destiny to read and she was constantly calling me to ask who this was, why was Janeway dead, what was this about.. I had been reading treklit for so long I forgot how these books aren't completely stand alone. Sure you can catch up with the idea of everything but do you actually CARE about 20 new characters who were introduced in 20 other books and crammed into this one?

By the way, this business about catering to the "casual fan".. you better believe these books have to cater to the casual fan. I've lent out a lot of my books to people who are familiar with only one series and maybe a smattering of another, people who may not have watched Trek in years but have an affection for it. I lend them the first in a relaunch. If you want these books only catering to the hardcore you better be ready to only buy them in e-books because you will never sell enough to make them viable. A huge proportion of hardcore trek fans don't even read the books.
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Old July 7 2011, 01:46 AM   #15
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Re: The Return of Janeway

teacake wrote: View Post

By the way, this business about catering to the "casual fan".. you better believe these books have to cater to the casual fan.
Tie-in fiction is for the hardcore, no one else. I've heard where tie-in fiction sells less than 1% of a shows given viewership. So a show with ten million viewers would likely sell tie-in books in the range of a hundred-thousand copies. Tie-in fiction is for those who have an appetite for a property beyond it's weekly showings. IE, the hardcore.
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