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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old June 21 2011, 01:02 AM   #331
Dac
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

BillJ wrote: View Post
Dac wrote: View Post
And TNG can't be shown in HD because it doesn't exist in HD. How many more times are we going to play this game?!
We all know it was finalized in 480i back in the 80's/90's. But that doesn't stop it from being broadcast by HD providers nor does it stop it from being watched on HD displays. As is.

Whether or not you can enjoy it under those limitations is up to you.
But but...arrgh, Those outlets you mentioned are exactly the same as watching it on DVD. Yes, it's good enough to watch but its not good enough for a High Definition stream. It does not have the data required to carry the detail. It's like having a size 8 foot in a size 12 shoe. Sure, it fits, but it's damned awkward walking about in it.

IF TNG could not be seen in higher quality, I would be against digitally restoring/upscaling it for a Blu Ray release. However because the means exist to add detail to the picture that was there when it was filmed but lost in the process to put it out to the masses then by all accounts that detail should be restored and broadcast in the way it was originally recorded.
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Old June 21 2011, 02:06 AM   #332
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

BillJ wrote: View Post
Dac wrote: View Post
And TNG can't be shown in HD because it doesn't exist in HD. How many more times are we going to play this game?!
We all know it was finalized in 480i back in the 80's/90's. But that doesn't stop it from being broadcast by HD providers nor does it stop it from being watched on HD displays. As is.

Whether or not you can enjoy it under those limitations is up to you.

Bud..just take one of the TOS DVDs..run it on a BR player..then take a TOS BRD and run it right after..same episode..You WILL notice a difference.. Unless one is in denial and has bought into the "TV show as Art" crap...
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Old June 21 2011, 02:22 AM   #333
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

MANT! wrote: View Post

Bud..just take one of the TOS DVDs..run it on a BR player..then take a TOS BRD and run it right after..same episode..You WILL notice a difference.. Unless one is in denial and has bought into the "TV show as Art" crap...
I've owned some of every TOS home release since the VHS days, including the new Blu-ray releases. No one need preach to me on the differences in picture quality (I'm a Blu-ray and HD-DVD early adopter). But it doesn't mean that Next Gen, as is, can't be watched and enjoyed on current home theater set-ups.
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Old June 21 2011, 02:28 AM   #334
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

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The whole argument is that Next Gen can't be shown in HD, which simply isn't true.... While it's not as crisp as TOS on Blu-ray, it's also not unwatchable...
So that's supposed to induce people to part with $500 or so, that fact that it's "not unwatchable" on HD devices?

Good luck with that.

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Old June 21 2011, 02:31 AM   #335
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

scotthm wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
The whole argument is that Next Gen can't be shown in HD, which simply isn't true.... While it's not as crisp as TOS on Blu-ray, it's also not unwatchable...
So that's supposed to induce people to part with $500 or so, that fact that it's "not unwatchable" on HD devices?

Good luck with that.

---------------
I'd actually be interested in seeing the TOS-R DVD/Blu-ray sales numbers. People seem to forget that TOS-R got a huge funding boost from Toshiba, so they could be the first to release Trek in an HD format.
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Old June 21 2011, 02:56 AM   #336
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

BillJ wrote: View Post
I've owned some of every TOS home release since the VHS days, including the new Blu-ray releases. No one need preach to me on the differences in picture quality (I'm a Blu-ray and HD-DVD early adopter). But it doesn't mean that Next Gen, as is, can't be watched and enjoyed on current home theater set-ups.
I have to disagree with you here, BillJ. I'm also a home cinema enthusiast of many years standing. Like you, I've owned TNG in many home video formats from VHS to Blu-ray (LaserDisc as well!) over the years. In my dedicated home cinema room I'm watching on an extremely large screen - and to be honest, TNG is horrible, just horrible. Artifacts, smearing, fuzziness etc. I always have to switch overscan back on just to remove the varying array of artifacts that plague the majority of episodes at screen edge.

We have a quality 50" PDP upstairs, on which I now watch most of my TV content - but even on that monitor, the problems are clearly evident.
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Old June 21 2011, 03:01 AM   #337
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
I've owned some of every TOS home release since the VHS days, including the new Blu-ray releases. No one need preach to me on the differences in picture quality (I'm a Blu-ray and HD-DVD early adopter). But it doesn't mean that Next Gen, as is, can't be watched and enjoyed on current home theater set-ups.
I have to disagree with you here, BillJ. I'm also a home cinema enthusiast of many years standing. Like you, I've owned TNG in many home video formats from VHS to Blu-ray (LaserDisc as well!) over the years. In my dedicated home cinema room I'm watching on an extremely large screen - and to be honest, TNG is horrible, just horrible. Artifacts, smearing, fuzziness etc. I always have to switch overscan back on just to remove the varying array of artifacts that plague the majority of episodes at screen edge.

We have a quality 50" PDP upstairs, on which is I now watch most of my TV content - but even on that monitor, the problems are clearly evident.
It's not a good discussion if everyone sees it the same way.
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Old June 21 2011, 06:20 AM   #338
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

BillJ wrote: View Post
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The original TNG episodes still exist, but they cannot be "uprezzed" to HD...
I don't know... the episodes look pretty decent up-scaled to 1080p on my 40" LCD.
They look terrible to me up-scaled (and the up-scaling done for "Trials and Tribble-ations" on Blu-Ray looks equally bad). They look even worse when they're cropped to 16:9. But YMMV.

I do have to draw exception to an earlier comment that turning TNG into widescreen would make it more "cinematic," though. I shudder at the thought of cropping Citizen Kane or Casablanca from the original 1.33:1 aspect ratio to 16:9 in order to make it more "cinematic." 1.33:1 was the standard aspect ratio for movies for several decades.
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Old June 21 2011, 06:27 AM   #339
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Harvey wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Dac wrote: View Post

The original TNG episodes still exist, but they cannot be "uprezzed" to HD...
I don't know... the episodes look pretty decent up-scaled to 1080p on my 40" LCD.
They look terrible to me up-scaled (and the up-scaling done for "Trials and Tribble-ations" on Blu-Ray looks equally bad). They look even worse when they're cropped to 16:9. But YMMV.

I do have to draw exception to an earlier comment that turning TNG into widescreen would make it more "cinematic," though. I shudder at the thought of cropping Citizen Kane or Casablanca from the original 1.33:1 aspect ratio to 16:9 in order to make it more "cinematic." 1.33:1 was the standard aspect ratio for movies for several decades.
Yeah, we've been condition to accept box=TV and rectangle=movie for a long time. With HDTV blurring the lines today, people forget that tv shows were the same aspect ratio as movies until the early fifties.
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Old June 21 2011, 07:59 AM   #340
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

While I'm sure they would do a cropped 16:9 option for TNG-R, I wouldn't watch it in that.
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Old June 21 2011, 09:40 AM   #341
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Harvey wrote: View Post
They look terrible to me up-scaled (and the up-scaling done for "Trials and Tribble-ations" on Blu-Ray looks equally bad).
Yes, when I saw the T&T up-scale I certainly had the words "I'll pass" running through my mind when contemplating future "HD" Trek BD releases!
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Old June 21 2011, 09:30 PM   #342
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
I've owned some of every TOS home release since the VHS days, including the new Blu-ray releases. No one need preach to me on the differences in picture quality (I'm a Blu-ray and HD-DVD early adopter). But it doesn't mean that Next Gen, as is, can't be watched and enjoyed on current home theater set-ups.
I have to disagree with you here, BillJ. I'm also a home cinema enthusiast of many years standing. Like you, I've owned TNG in many home video formats from VHS to Blu-ray (LaserDisc as well!) over the years. In my dedicated home cinema room I'm watching on an extremely large screen - and to be honest, TNG is horrible, just horrible. Artifacts, smearing, fuzziness etc. I always have to switch overscan back on just to remove the varying array of artifacts that plague the majority of episodes at screen edge.

We have a quality 50" PDP upstairs, on which I now watch most of my TV content - but even on that monitor, the problems are clearly evident.
I've got a 46" LCD myself, and the TNG DVDs are awful. Artifacting, fuzziness, all manner of issues. Sometimes it's worse than how it used to look over broadcast TV.

Even if they redid the compression and just put the standard definition episodes on Bluray, it would absolutely look better.

And as for hi-def, remember the live action footage was filmed on "film" which has a massively high resolution, if they actually go back to those film elements and re-scan those, and then render all the new effects in high-definition, then there would be a massive improvement.

Just as an example, the latest Ben-Hur restoration had them scanning the 65mm elements at 8K resolution (basically 8000 lines). Bluray is only 1080.
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Old June 21 2011, 09:50 PM   #343
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

To be fair, ALL standard definition material is upscaled when you see it on an HDTV. If not, you would see a postage stamp-sized image in the midst of two or three feet of black around each side.

If you don't have an "upconverting" DVD player, the TV itself will take over the job of upscaling. And many times the TV has a better upscaler than the so-called "upconverting" DVD players do.
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Old June 21 2011, 10:52 PM   #344
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Depends on the TV and DVD/BD player. As a first order guesstimate, the newest device is probably the best at doing the upconverting(unless you bought an Oppo upconverting DVD player and then a junky TV)
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Old June 21 2011, 11:19 PM   #345
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

AviTrek wrote: View Post
Depends on the TV and DVD/BD player. As a first order guesstimate, the newest device is probably the best at doing the upconverting(unless you bought an Oppo upconverting DVD player and then a junky TV)
I can tell you the Oppo BDP-93 is a sweet machine! IMO, it outperforms players retailing at twice the price or more.
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