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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old June 19 2011, 10:40 PM   #301
Lord Garth
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Jefferies wrote: View Post
So why make a risky new series that might tank like Enterprise if you can just rely on the old series to be watched in syndication?
That was 6-10 years ago. There will be a lot more people interested in a new series now than there were before 2009. Enough for cable at least.

I include myself in that group. I wasn't interested in a new series in 2001, but I am in 2011.

BUT, even having said what I said...

Its a fairly safe investment in the long run, even if it's costly right now. It will pay back eventually.
This is true.
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Old June 19 2011, 11:59 PM   #302
Dac
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Oso Blanco wrote: View Post
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But there have been a lot of old movies remastered and released in Blu Ray to a high standard. Colorizing black and white is creating something that wasn't there to begin with, however everything that was filmed on 35mm film does have a lot of detail in the picture than has previously been unavailable to domestic audiences.
You're not getting my point! I'm all for remastering old movies and such, if it only means cleaning up the picture and increasing resolution.

Adding new fx on the other hand IS "creating something that wasn't there to begin with"! The point is, that improving quality is a good thing, making black and white movies colour and adding new fx to Trek is not!

But the current FX "isn't" there though. At least in terms of quality. It would be pin sharp shots cutting to blurry as hell shots back and forth throughout. That would be more jarring than a thoughtful remastering with CG effects. TOS-R was always "what if they had CG in the 60s?" approach, that is why the models still lacked any fine details, texturing and dynamic lighting. TNG-R on the other hand should be as photo-real as possible when it comes to updated effects as that was the intention when it was created. The models used then were of a much higher standard than those used in the 60s, and so the CG remastering should also be of a much higher standard.

If any TNG-R work looked like TOS-R I would be upset, but I fully expect it to at least look like the shots from "These Are The Voyages" if not better given 6 years of technological improvement. I also advocate changing designs which were simply reused or haphazardly modified at the last minute in any remastering to add some incentive to watch again and break up the Excelsior class of the week which cropped up A LOT in TNG. Seeing fleshed out Wolf 359 designs like the Cheyenne class, Springfield and New Orleans classes instead of the same Excelsior over and over again when applicable would make sense if you ask me, especially considering any effort would have to be remade from the ground up.
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Old June 20 2011, 12:34 AM   #303
swaaye
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

21 pages of circular bitching.

My 2 cents are that if they need to remake the effects to try to make them look similar to what the original artists intended. These people are still alive and ready to be consulted. Tell me it wouldn't be awesome if they got together again to work some of their original plans into the cost conscious shots of old. How about a Ambassador class that looks like originally intended instead of the one Greg Jein had to build in a weekend? The loss of the 4 foot D wouldn't be too awful either!

On the other hand if they can somehow reuse the old FX, that's cool too. Appreciate the unreal amount of work the model makers and filmers put in on a crazy schedule and very limited budget, huh? It's history and they should be proud of making the best looking sci-fi TV show of the time.

16:9 or 4:3 doesn't matter to me as long as it's done competently.
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Old June 20 2011, 02:29 AM   #304
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

swaaye wrote: View Post
21 pages of circular bitching.
Well yeah, it's nerds arguing about Star Trek... not sure what you were expecting
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Old June 20 2011, 02:40 AM   #305
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Yoda wrote: View Post
swaaye wrote: View Post
21 pages of circular bitching.
Well yeah, it's nerds arguing about Star Trek... not sure what you were expecting
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Old June 20 2011, 03:17 AM   #306
RAMA
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

swaaye wrote: View Post
21 pages of circular bitching.

My 2 cents are that if they need to remake the effects to try to make them look similar to what the original artists intended. These people are still alive and ready to be consulted. Tell me it wouldn't be awesome if they got together again to work some of their original plans into the cost conscious shots of old. How about a Ambassador class that looks like originally intended instead of the one Greg Jein had to build in a weekend? The loss of the 4 foot D wouldn't be too awful either!

On the other hand if they can somehow reuse the old FX, that's cool too. Appreciate the unreal amount of work the model makers and filmers put in on a crazy schedule and very limited budget, huh? It's history and they should be proud of making the best looking sci-fi TV show of the time.

16:9 or 4:3 doesn't matter to me as long as it's done competently.
I think I mentioned some of this 20 pages ago.

I still feel the example of the actual aired HD version of STNG from TATV is all you need to make a decision on if the 16:9 format is for you...it seems to work.

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Old June 20 2011, 03:38 AM   #307
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Oso Blanco wrote: View Post
Butters wrote: View Post
Either TNG is the story of humans exploring the galaxy in the 24th Century, a story worth re-telling to a new audience and would benefit from an update to its visuals, or its an eighties TV show that doesn't look good on a modern TV and just needs a touch up.

Mine is the former, and if i were leading the project I would change everything and anything that placed its production in the eighties/nineties, and sell it as a new show.
It's a piece of art, created in the eighties/nineties ... and it should be treated with respect! Would you give the Mona Lisa breast implants, so that the painting would fit your personal esthetic preference? I'll never understand how people can prefer plastic tits over the real thing, but that's a different story.
Ohh geeze! not the tired old "It's art" talking point..it's not art..it's a business..designed to make money...

Those of us in the TOS forum have been through this..it's only a very vocal minority that completely hates the new effects..and most of them still have SDTVs...


A remastered TNG blu-ray with blurred video effects that look like a huge enough pile of crap that you'd need a Sherpa guide to climb would not sell very well...

hence the forced remastering...
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Old June 20 2011, 04:36 AM   #308
RAMA
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

MANT! wrote: View Post
Oso Blanco wrote: View Post
Butters wrote: View Post
Either TNG is the story of humans exploring the galaxy in the 24th Century, a story worth re-telling to a new audience and would benefit from an update to its visuals, or its an eighties TV show that doesn't look good on a modern TV and just needs a touch up.

Mine is the former, and if i were leading the project I would change everything and anything that placed its production in the eighties/nineties, and sell it as a new show.
It's a piece of art, created in the eighties/nineties ... and it should be treated with respect! Would you give the Mona Lisa breast implants, so that the painting would fit your personal esthetic preference? I'll never understand how people can prefer plastic tits over the real thing, but that's a different story.
Ohh geeze! not the tired old "It's art" talking point..it's not art..it's a business..designed to make money...

Those of us in the TOS forum have been through this..it's only a very vocal minority that completely hates the new effects..and most of them still have SDTVs...


A remastered TNG blu-ray with blurred video effects that look like a huge enough pile of crap that you'd need a Sherpa guide to climb would not sell very well...

hence the forced remastering...
This guy will never get a clue....save your breath.

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Old June 20 2011, 06:07 AM   #309
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Dac wrote: View Post
I also advocate changing designs which were simply reused or haphazardly modified at the last minute in any remastering to add some incentive to watch again and break up the Excelsior class of the week which cropped up A LOT in TNG.
This is EXACTLY what I am afraid of. Changing designs, replacing ship classes with others ... so the Cairo is not an Excelsior class anymore, it suddenly is an Akira! It may not be important for plot or story, but this is changing history! Since when is coolness more important than canon to you people?
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Old June 20 2011, 09:34 AM   #310
Art Vandelay
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

^ Re-doing the effects is not about "being cool". Also, it's not about "violating canon".

(I'll repeat here what I have said countless times: The only real reason canon exists is to start arguments and kill the fun. Yes, internal cohesiveness creates suspension of disbelief, and this is necessary to enjoy any series without constantly getting reminded you're just watching a TV show. The concept of canon takes this concept of cohesiveness to a whole new level, just for the sake of argument.)

The effects for TNG-R should, in my opinion, be redone for the following reasons:
  • The original effects are only available in SD. Keeping them would mean dozens of jarring shifts back and forth between SD and HD in every episode. Trust me, that's the ultimate mood killer.
  • If the producers had the time, money and technology back when TNG was in production, I'm pretty certain we would not have ended up with the same footage of the Enterprise alongside an Excelsior-class vessel time and again. If if hadn't been for those constraints, they would have gone for diversification. Since the restauration removes these constraints, they should go for what they wish they had done.
  • Have you ever seen TOS-R? The new effects were all done very tastefully and with the utmost respect for the original. No Greedo shooting first. No Jedi Rocks. They stuck to the original effects so rigidly and faithfully that sometimes I caught myself wishing they had gone wild a bit more often, but they really shouldn't have. Each and every one of the new shots enhances the viewing experience without calling attention to itself, and they make one thing abundantly clear: This is what Roddenberry would have wanted if he had had the means to do it.
Of course, as they did with TOS-R, CBS should provide the option to toggle between original effects (in upscaled SD) and new effects, if only to pay homage to all the people whose blood, sweat and tears went into making this great and classic show.

Last edited by Art Vandelay; June 20 2011 at 10:47 AM.
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Old June 20 2011, 01:55 PM   #311
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Oso Blanco wrote: View Post
It may not be important for plot or story, but this is changing history!
You'd better get your "historical archives" on DVD now, while you can.

Since when is coolness more important than canon to you people?
I was in New York last year, and stopped by the USMA at Westpoint. It was in February. Unfortunately, it was so cold that day that I didn't get to spend much time checking out the cannon overlooking the point. So I'd say that February 2010 was when coolness became more important than cannon to me.

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Old June 20 2011, 04:31 PM   #312
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Lord Garth wrote: View Post
That was 6-10 years ago. There will be a lot more people interested in a new series now than there were before 2009. Enough for cable at least.

I include myself in that group. I wasn't interested in a new series in 2001, but I am in 2011.
I agree with you, it is likely that there is a much higher general interest in a new series now then there was 10 years ago. However, CBS is quite a demanding network. I'm doubtful any new Star Trek series could ever garner the ratings that they would deem a success.
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Old June 20 2011, 04:32 PM   #313
MrPointy
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Oso Blanco wrote: View Post
Dac wrote: View Post
I also advocate changing designs which were simply reused or haphazardly modified at the last minute in any remastering to add some incentive to watch again and break up the Excelsior class of the week which cropped up A LOT in TNG.
This is EXACTLY what I am afraid of. Changing designs, replacing ship classes with others ... so the Cairo is not an Excelsior class anymore, it suddenly is an Akira! It may not be important for plot or story, but this is changing history! Since when is coolness more important than canon to you people?
Screw this form of canon.

I can appreciate the model work of TNG well enough, but budget limitations forced them to reuse the same models many times and it looks cheap. It makes the show look poor, and if you had to properly nerd out about the matter, it makes the Feds look poor. From a canonical perspective, the Miranda-class and Excelsior-class vessels being used in the 24th century are nearly 100 years old. Why the hell couldn't they reuse the Ambassador model more than once?

The Federation are a cheap bunch of bastards.
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Old June 20 2011, 04:55 PM   #314
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

MrPointy wrote: View Post
I can appreciate the model work of TNG well enough, but budget limitations forced them to reuse the same models many times and it looks cheap. It makes the show look poor, and if you had to properly nerd out about the matter, it makes the Feds look poor. From a canonical perspective, the Miranda-class and Excelsior-class vessels being used in the 24th century are nearly 100 years old. Why the hell couldn't they reuse the Ambassador model more than once?

The Federation are a cheap bunch of bastards.
And don't even get me started on Klingon ships
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Old June 20 2011, 05:13 PM   #315
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

^
I believe it's more honourable in Klingon culture to die to your enemy in a 150-year old D7 than to take them on and achieve victory in something worth a damn. Like a Pakled shuttle or something.
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