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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old June 16 2011, 06:22 PM   #226
Hober Mallow
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Oso Blanco wrote: View Post
There must be other ways to accomplish that. Messing up TNG like they did TOS is neither acceptable nor necessary.
Just curious... exactly how was TOS messed up? HD is much closer to what the film actually looks like. The new FX have nothing to do with the remaster. Not only that, but you can watch the original episodes in HD with the original FX on the blu-rays. So I'm not really sure what the problem is as you se it.

And even they are not HD, then they are not ... where is the problem? People are still watching old black and white movies, so why shouldn't they watch Trek in SD?
Um... you do know that old black and white movies were never shown in TV "standard definition." They couldn't be. The quality on the big screen would be so horrible that you wouldn't even know what you were looking at.

I don't think you get what HD actually is. HD isn't a quality of an old film that is added to satisfy modern audiences; it's a quality that is already there on the film, whether it was made yesterday or 60 years ago.

A film, even an old B&W film from the 30s, 40s, or 50s, was shown in theaters with much better resolution than modern HD TV. The HD remaster of Casablanca on blu-ray is much closer to the way it was shown in the theater. Any standard definition TV version you saw of Casablanca was a much degraded version.

HD is, by and large, about preserving the original, not changing anything.

In TNGs case, strictly speaking, it isn't possible to remaster it in HD. It's unfortunate that, basically, a new version with new FX has to be made with the original raw film footage. I can get the purist argument against this. Hell, I'm a purist. What I can't get is how any purist could be against TOS's remaster. Unlike what an HD TNG would have to be, TOS episodes were simply transferred in HD. I watch the blu-ray episodes in HD with the original FX. That's what the remaster is. Has nothing to do with new FX whatsoever. So what's the issue?

Personally I'd rather watch it super low resolution than ruined with new fx.

Sacrificing the original TNG (or TOS or whatever) for HD is like trading pest for cholera, so they might as well stay with the original.
In what way was TOS sacrificed? A less-detailed transfer is better? Please explain. It's like someone who gets the actual original Mona Lisa complaining, "This is terrible! My postcard with a bad copy of the Mona Lisa on it was just fine! Why did they have to ruin it for me by sending me the real thing?" Again, pelase explain this position. I'm at a complete loss to understand it.
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Old June 16 2011, 06:49 PM   #227
AviTrek
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

BillJ wrote: View Post
BlobVanDam wrote: View Post

You know what else says it's old? The fact it's an 80s TV show, with 80s costumes, and 80s sets. What about TOS? That looks very 60s. Removing the black bars from the side of the screen is not going to change that. It sickens me to think that they would compromise a show because some people can't watch a TV show more than 10 years old. These are not the types of people who are watching an old scifi show about space politics and humanitarian efforts, and not going to be the people forking over money for the Bluray boxsets.
This is about more than blu-ray box sets. This is about getting it on the air. I don't know about you... but here in the States the number of 4:3 shows being broadcast continues to shrink. Also, Star Trek Remastered is no longer broadcast here in the States after one run thru.

Why should they satisfy people who clearly don't care about artistic integrity anyway by compromising the artistic integrity?
The fact of the matter is that most people don't care about artistic integrity. They bought their 16:9 sets and most want to watch stuff in 16:9. It's simply a fact of life.

TNG currently airs on at least 2 cable channels that I'm aware of. And that's 4x3 SD. If an HD version is created, TNG will do quite even with black bars on either side.
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Old June 16 2011, 08:12 PM   #228
scotthm
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

BlobVanDam wrote: View Post
for what? So you don't have to see black bars on your TV?
It's generally better for your HDTV if it displays more 16:9 programming and less 4:3 programming.

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Old June 16 2011, 08:43 PM   #229
MPH
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Im sorry to go against the trend here but TNG-R has got to be in 16.9.
Have the TOS-R on Blu ray and the bars down the side are kind of annoying and you do get used to them but I want TNG to fill my whole screen.
You would only know that things where missing if you put the 2 ratios side by side IMO.
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Old June 16 2011, 08:52 PM   #230
Skywalker
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

TNG-R won't be in 16:9. It was never staged or framed to be filmed in that ratio. Putting TNG-R out in 16:9 would be just as egregious as releasing a movie filmed in 2.35:1 in pan & scan.
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Old June 16 2011, 09:06 PM   #231
scotthm
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Re: Original aspect ratio

jefferiestubes8 wrote: View Post
TNG is 4:3 . CBS will stick to that.
I suspect you're right, but I'd like them to explore the option of 16:9 and make it available if it seems viable.

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Old June 16 2011, 09:16 PM   #232
LOKAI of CHERON
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Below is a capture from TOS-R season 3 episode "The Enterprise Incident", along with the same cap from the cropped 16x9 version shown on CBS Action in the UK an hour ago.

Does anybody really want this for TNG-R - really?!!!

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Old June 16 2011, 09:25 PM   #233
BillJ
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
Below is a capture from TOS-R season 3 episode "The Enterprise Incident", along with the same cap from the cropped 16x9 version shown on CBS Action in the UK an hour ago.

Does anybody really want this for TNG-R - really?!!!
It's just a straight crop. Doesn't look like there was any creativity involved.
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Old June 16 2011, 10:03 PM   #234
Harvey
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Apply creativity, and you're still going to lose part of (or all of) Chekov or Kirk in the frame.

Cropping Star Trek isn't as dramatic as panning and scanning Ben-Hur, which basically constitutes re-directing the movie, but it's still an unnecessary artistic intrusion.

And since, in the United States at least, CBS didn't reframe Star Trek to 16:9, it stands to reason that they probably won't reframe Star Trek: The Next Generation, either.
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Old June 16 2011, 10:05 PM   #235
AviTrek
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

BillJ wrote: View Post
LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
Below is a capture from TOS-R season 3 episode "The Enterprise Incident", along with the same cap from the cropped 16x9 version shown on CBS Action in the UK an hour ago.

Does anybody really want this for TNG-R - really?!!!
It's just a straight crop. Doesn't look like there was any creativity involved.
It was a crop that squeezed in every head? What else do you expect them to do? I'm sorry but selective stretching is even worse. Maybe you can bluff it for a screen shot, but try doing a scene where characters/cameras move and you end up with stretch/contractions changing and it looks terrible.

If you want to see this in action set your tv to the progressive stretch where the edges are stretched more than the center.
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Old June 16 2011, 10:10 PM   #236
BillJ
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Harvey wrote: View Post

And since, in the United States at least, CBS didn't reframe Star Trek to 16:9, it stands to reason that they probably won't reframe Star Trek: The Next Generation, either.
I really hope you're right but two things have me wondering...

* They did re-frame Star Trek Remastered for both Europe and Asia. So it does exist even if it wasn't presented that way in the United States.

* There is going to be more pressure to sell Star Trek: The Next Generation Remastered to recoup costs, because Toshiba isn't going to be paying part of the bill this time around. "Presented for the first time in high definition widescreen", may help get stations to bite.
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Old June 16 2011, 10:17 PM   #237
Harvey
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

I'd hope that once stations saw the result of presenting the series in widescreen, they'd pass. Is there much of a precedent for releasing 1.33:1 television programs cropped to widescreen on home video, anyway? I can't say I'm totally concerned about how the show is broadcast on TV -- I'll be watching it on Blu-Ray if it's released.
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Old June 16 2011, 10:22 PM   #238
BillJ
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Harvey wrote: View Post
I'd hope that once stations saw the result of presenting the series in widescreen, they'd pass. Is there much of a precedent for releasing 1.33:1 television programs cropped to widescreen on home video, anyway? I can't say I'm totally concerned about how the show is broadcast on TV -- I'll be watching it on Blu-Ray if it's released.
HDNet has shown shows such as Cheers and Hogan's Hero's cropped.

I'm sure that CBS would present cropped scenes that look crisp. Potential broadcast partners will see the 'best of the best'.

Like the effects on Star Trek Remastered, I would like to have the choice between full and widescreen presentation. Just like the effects on TOS-R, I'd probably watch it thru one time with the new presentation then revert to watching full screen.
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Old June 16 2011, 10:25 PM   #239
LOKAI of CHERON
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

The TOS-R Blu-rays are in the OAR in all territories. I imported the US discs, but I would've been fine with the UK releases. I'm confident any future TNG-R BD sets will do the same.
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Old June 16 2011, 10:29 PM   #240
BillJ
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
The TOS-R Blu-rays are in the OAR in all territories. I imported the US discs, but I would've been fine with the UK releases. I'm confident any future TNG-R BD sets will do the same.
Which I didn't understand since they rendered the effects in widescreen.
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