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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old June 16 2011, 04:09 PM   #211
Art Vandelay
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

BlobVanDam wrote: View Post
[...] Artistically, this is now terrible. And this is one random shot. Imagine them doing this for hundreds of shots per episode for 180 episodes.

If ruining shots is the price to pay for "widescreen", then it's pointless. Widescreen does not instantly make things look good, especially when you've had to ruin a shot to do so.
What he said.

BillJ wrote: View Post
If the idea is to make TNG presentable on HDTV, then they should at least explore expanding the aspect ratio. I imagine most people hate the black bars on the left and right of their 16:9 screens as much as people hated the black bars on the top and bottom of their 4:3 screens.

If this is about mass consumption, then they'd be short-sighted not to explore changing the ratio.
We regularly watch 4:3 presentations on our big 16:9 screen, there are black bars left and right, we neither mind nor take notice.

People clamoring that they paid so much for their widescreen TVs, and think they purchased the right for any feature to cover every last square inch, they have the option to fiddle around with their remote controls. They generally have little to no knowledge of the art of film.

Let's not have their preference dictate what the rest of us has to consume. Marketability is necessary, but must never take precedence over what film is about.
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Old June 16 2011, 04:12 PM   #212
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

scotthm wrote: View Post
BlobVanDam wrote: View Post
If they screw this up with widescreen, my enthusiasm for this project goes from 110% to 0%.
My enthusiasm would go from 20% to 80% if it is a well done widescreen conversion.

If people want to watch it in "widescreen" they can hit the crop button on their remote, instead of chopping off part of the picture permanently.
If it can be done well, it will be at the hands of professionals and not your television. The part of the picture that gets cropped is unlikely to have anything more interesting going on than the additional image on the sides has.

---------------
Actually, a 5.8% stretch and losing a small amount of visual info at the top and bottom, (where less info usually is anyway) is not that bad looking...which is why I posted the pic in the forum. It actually gives a sense somewhat of a movie. However...I won't be upset if its simply the original ratio....or better yet if they had BOTH versions available on the disc.

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Old June 16 2011, 04:19 PM   #213
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Art Vandelay wrote: View Post
BlobVanDam wrote: View Post
[...] Artistically, this is now terrible. And this is one random shot. Imagine them doing this for hundreds of shots per episode for 180 episodes.

If ruining shots is the price to pay for "widescreen", then it's pointless. Widescreen does not instantly make things look good, especially when you've had to ruin a shot to do so.
What he said.

BillJ wrote: View Post
If the idea is to make TNG presentable on HDTV, then they should at least explore expanding the aspect ratio. I imagine most people hate the black bars on the left and right of their 16:9 screens as much as people hated the black bars on the top and bottom of their 4:3 screens.

If this is about mass consumption, then they'd be short-sighted not to explore changing the ratio.
We regularly watch 4:3 presentations on our big 16:9 screen, there are black bars left and right, we neither mind nor take notice.

People clamoring that they paid so much for their widescreen TVs, and think they purchased the right for any feature to cover every last square inch, they have the option to fiddle around with their remote controls. They generally have little to no knowledge of the art of film.

Let's not have their preference dictate what the rest of us has to consume. Marketability is necessary, but must never take precedence over what film is about.

And lets not have your preference dictate what the rest of us want to consume. I strongly believe a 16:9 TNG would be part of the selling point for it feeling like a whole new show.
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Old June 16 2011, 04:22 PM   #214
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Actually, scratch my last. I just whacked BOBW on VLC and stretched it to 2:35:1. Damn. This does look like a movie if everyone wasn't stretched to the extreme
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Old June 16 2011, 04:24 PM   #215
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Dac wrote: View Post

And lets not have your preference dictate what the rest of us want to consume. I strongly believe a 16:9 TNG would be part of the selling point for it feeling like a whole new show.
The endgame for CBS is to sell as much TNG as possible to recoup the cost of the upgrade.
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Old June 16 2011, 04:30 PM   #216
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

BillJ wrote: View Post
Dac wrote: View Post

And lets not have your preference dictate what the rest of us want to consume. I strongly believe a 16:9 TNG would be part of the selling point for it feeling like a whole new show.
The endgame for CBS is to sell as much TNG as possible to recoup the cost of the upgrade.

Which would suggest an option for both 4:3 and 16:9
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Old June 16 2011, 04:37 PM   #217
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

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Hey, those results are by no means definitive. They are the product of all but 5 minutes work. Yes, the framing is off but some more intensive work could probably correct this. All I know is that if its possible to create a 16:9 HD TNG I would like a 16:9 HD TNG. Otherwise it would not be full HD.
So you'd rather it fulfill a technicality of "full HD" than actually look good?
Because I don't know what more intensive work you think can correct losing picture, but there's only so much they can gain from the extra film width, and I do not want my videos stretched, even if only slightly. It's a series of fudges to make something fit what it was not intended for. I am still seeing nothing to gain artistically from it, and I'm not convinced it would gain anything from a business standpoint.

I don't want to see Citizen Kane coloured just because today's kids don't like watching black and white. I don't want to watch Metropolis with recorded voices just because silent films aren't marketable anymore. And I don't want them stretching and cropping TNG just because some people don't like seeing black bars on their TVs. Let's see how many people can't handle a black bar vs those who can't handle having shots look worse. These were all shot a certain way, and artistically composed to fit that particular medium.

Full HD is usually defined as 1080p as far as I'm concerned, only the vertical height. While 16:9 is typically assumed, it is not the only option. TNG is still very popular even from crummy old tape episodes with 80s effects and 4:3 aspect ratio. Rescanning it at high def and adding new effects will add plenty of resale value, future-proof them, and satisfy the next generation of viewers. Satisfying the perceived idea among some people that widescreen instantly makes everything better and cinematic, at the expense of quality, is not a compromise that will pay off in the long run, as people realize that the old DVDs give them a more watchable experience. I'm guessing the response from TOS-R has shown that aspect ratio isn't a major selling point (especially if you've seen the 16:9 versions shown in some places).
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Old June 16 2011, 04:38 PM   #218
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

You know what? Your right. I take back everything I've said. Just put it out at the highest resolution original aspect ratio and I can just stretch it how I want. I'm having more fun watching BOBW at 2:35:1 than I've had in a long time.
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Old June 16 2011, 04:38 PM   #219
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Dac wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Dac wrote: View Post

And lets not have your preference dictate what the rest of us want to consume. I strongly believe a 16:9 TNG would be part of the selling point for it feeling like a whole new show.
The endgame for CBS is to sell as much TNG as possible to recoup the cost of the upgrade.

Which would suggest an option for both 4:3 and 16:9
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Old June 16 2011, 04:40 PM   #220
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Dac wrote: View Post
You know what? Your right. I take back everything I've said. Just put it out at the highest resolution original aspect ratio and I can just stretch it how I want. I'm having more fun watching BOBW at 2:35:1 than I've had in a long time.
2.35:1? I think that's stretching it just a little too far, but I'd be interested to see some screenies from that.
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Old June 16 2011, 04:41 PM   #221
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

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So you'd rather it fulfill a technicality of "full HD" than actually look good?
Those bars on either side? They say the program is old. And there are people out there that do care about OAR, I doubt the vast majority of viewers and more importantly the broadcasters want something that says it's old.
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Old June 16 2011, 04:44 PM   #222
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

BlobVanDam wrote: View Post
Dac wrote: View Post
You know what? Your right. I take back everything I've said. Just put it out at the highest resolution original aspect ratio and I can just stretch it how I want. I'm having more fun watching BOBW at 2:35:1 than I've had in a long time.
2.35:1? I think that's stretching it just a little too far, but I'd be interested to see some screenies from that.
Oh its stretched to high heaven, but I'm typing this on one computer while its playing on another on my TV to my side so I'm watching it at a funny angle, that certainly helps the weirdness. I'll see what I can do with some screenies. I will say though that the Borg Cube has become a Borg Cuboid
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Old June 16 2011, 04:52 PM   #223
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

BillJ wrote: View Post
BlobVanDam wrote: View Post

So you'd rather it fulfill a technicality of "full HD" than actually look good?
Those bars on either side? They say the program is old. And there are people out there that do care about OAR, I doubt the vast majority of viewers and more importantly the broadcasters want something that says it's old.
You know what else says it's old? The fact it's an 80s TV show, with 80s costumes, and 80s sets. What about TOS? That looks very 60s. Removing the black bars from the side of the screen is not going to change that. It sickens me to think that they would compromise a show because some people can't watch a TV show more than 10 years old. These are not the types of people who are watching an old scifi show about space politics and humanitarian efforts, and not going to be the people forking over money for the Bluray boxsets.

If people are that fickle and narrow minded that they wouldn't watch a show with black bars on the side, I think there's much more about TNG stopping them from watching it than aspect ratio. Why should they satisfy people who clearly don't care about artistic integrity anyway by compromising the artistic integrity?
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Old June 16 2011, 05:00 PM   #224
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

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You know what else says it's old? The fact it's an 80s TV show, with 80s costumes, and 80s sets. What about TOS? That looks very 60s. Removing the black bars from the side of the screen is not going to change that. It sickens me to think that they would compromise a show because some people can't watch a TV show more than 10 years old. These are not the types of people who are watching an old scifi show about space politics and humanitarian efforts, and not going to be the people forking over money for the Bluray boxsets.
This is about more than blu-ray box sets. This is about getting it on the air. I don't know about you... but here in the States the number of 4:3 shows being broadcast continues to shrink. Also, Star Trek Remastered is no longer broadcast here in the States after one run thru.

Why should they satisfy people who clearly don't care about artistic integrity anyway by compromising the artistic integrity?
The fact of the matter is that most people don't care about artistic integrity. They bought their 16:9 sets and most want to watch stuff in 16:9. It's simply a fact of life.

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Old June 16 2011, 05:12 PM   #225
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Original aspect ratio

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You know what? Your right. I take back everything I've said. Just put it out at the highest resolution original aspect ratio and I can just stretch it
Agreed. Every HDTV has an aspect button and people can stretch it if they want to.

TNG is 4:3 . CBS will stick to that.
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