RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,061
Posts: 5,431,777
Members: 24,925
Currently online: 667
Newest member: dracopticon

TrekToday headlines

The Red Shirt Diaries #8
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

IDW Publishing January Comics
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

Retro Review: Chrysalis
By: Michelle on Oct 18

The Next Generation Season Seven Blu-ray Details
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

CBS Launches Streaming Service
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Yelchin In New Indie Thriller
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Saldana In The Book of Life
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Cracked’s New Sci-Fi Satire
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16

Beltran Introduces Shakespeare To Theater Group
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16

Burton To Be Honored at Facets Boo! Bash
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 16 2011, 09:01 AM   #196
BlobVanDam
Fleet Captain
 
BlobVanDam's Avatar
 
Location: Australia
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to BlobVanDam Send a message via Yahoo to BlobVanDam
Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

scotthm wrote: View Post
BlobVanDam wrote: View Post
If they screw this up with widescreen, my enthusiasm for this project goes from 110% to 0%.
My enthusiasm would go from 20% to 80% if it is a well done widescreen conversion.

If people want to watch it in "widescreen" they can hit the crop button on their remote, instead of chopping off part of the picture permanently.
If it can be done well, it will be at the hands of professionals and not your television. The part of the picture that gets cropped is unlikely to have anything more interesting going on than the additional image on the sides has.

---------------
Sure, they may be able to do it without damaging it too much overall, but then there's also the possibility of cutting off parts off people's heads in close up, gaining crap on the sides that was never meant to be seen or was never spotted when filming for TV, and changing the intended framing of shots, but for what? So you don't have to see black bars on your TV?
It was filmed in 4:3, so that's how it is going to look artistically best. If was never framed with widescreen in mind, so it's always going to be a compromise. It's just a matter of how much it's compromised.
Even watch the few seconds in TATV (or look at the pic earlier). Half of the guy's head is chopped off, and people are crammed claustrophically into frame. The rest of the shot may be 80-90% fine, but why compromise 10-20% of the framing of the shot at all when you don't have to?

I don't mind them redoing space shots with CG, or adding entirely new effects, because these can be done from scratch, so no compromise has to be made to convert the show to HD, and I'm not too much of a purist overall, so no worry there, but over 178 episodes, there are going to be compromises if they crop the show to widescreen. And if the show has to be compromised 10% to do it, then I see no point to do it at all.

Now I know how people feel with TOS-R.
BlobVanDam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2011, 12:14 PM   #197
LOKAI of CHERON
Commodore
 
LOKAI of CHERON's Avatar
 
Location: Post-apocalyptic ruins of my once mighty Homeworld.
Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Here in the UK, CBS Action are currently screening TOS-R in 16:9 format. People, please trust me on this - it's friggin' horrible! Yes, it has been "intelligently" cropped so heads aren't cut off etc., and to be fair, a few shots actually work really well. But, overall, it feels extremely claustrophobic and destroys the superb work of the original cinematographers.

If TNG-R is similarly cropped for Blu-ray - I'm out.
__________________
YOU MONOTONE HUMANS ARE ALL ALIKE... FIRST YOU CONDEMN, THEN ATTACK.
LOKAI of CHERON is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2011, 12:41 PM   #198
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

RAMA wrote: View Post

Original footage has a safe action area with an aspect ratio of 1.37:1, its televised at 1.33:1. They used that, then stretched it by 5.8%. Top and bottom was cropped.


RAMA

But let's be honest. Can seasons three thru seven Riker afford to get any wider?
__________________
"If I hadn't tried, the cost would have been my soul." - Admiral James T. Kirk, Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2011, 12:44 PM   #199
LOKAI of CHERON
Commodore
 
LOKAI of CHERON's Avatar
 
Location: Post-apocalyptic ruins of my once mighty Homeworld.
Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

BillJ wrote: View Post
RAMA wrote: View Post

Original footage has a safe action area with an aspect ratio of 1.37:1, its televised at 1.33:1. They used that, then stretched it by 5.8%. Top and bottom was cropped.


RAMA

But let's be honest. Can seasons three thru seven Riker afford to get any wider?
Ouch!!!
__________________
YOU MONOTONE HUMANS ARE ALL ALIKE... FIRST YOU CONDEMN, THEN ATTACK.
LOKAI of CHERON is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2011, 01:37 PM   #200
Gep Malakai
Vice Admiral
 
Gep Malakai's Avatar
 
Send a message via AIM to Gep Malakai Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Gep Malakai
Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

But look at it the other way: now "The Pegasus" Riker and TATV Riker will finally match.
__________________
"From the darkness you must fall, failed and weak, to darkness all."
-Kataris
Gep Malakai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2011, 02:26 PM   #201
AviTrek
Fleet Captain
 
Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

scotthm wrote: View Post
BlobVanDam wrote: View Post
If they screw this up with widescreen, my enthusiasm for this project goes from 110% to 0%.
My enthusiasm would go from 20% to 80% if it is a well done widescreen conversion.

If people want to watch it in "widescreen" they can hit the crop button on their remote, instead of chopping off part of the picture permanently.
If it can be done well, it will be at the hands of professionals and not your television. The part of the picture that gets cropped is unlikely to have anything more interesting going on than the additional image on the sides has.

---------------
I challenge anyone claiming that a widescreen crop could be done, to produce a decent looking crop of the following two fairly standard shots.

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...deffect289.jpg

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...deffect380.jpg
AviTrek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2011, 02:31 PM   #202
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

AviTrek wrote: View Post
scotthm wrote: View Post
BlobVanDam wrote: View Post
If they screw this up with widescreen, my enthusiasm for this project goes from 110% to 0%.
My enthusiasm would go from 20% to 80% if it is a well done widescreen conversion.

If people want to watch it in "widescreen" they can hit the crop button on their remote, instead of chopping off part of the picture permanently.
If it can be done well, it will be at the hands of professionals and not your television. The part of the picture that gets cropped is unlikely to have anything more interesting going on than the additional image on the sides has.

---------------
I challenge anyone claiming that a widescreen crop could be done, to produce a decent looking crop of the following two fairly standard shots.

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...deffect289.jpg

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...deffect380.jpg
I'd have to see what elements existed and were cut off the sides to make it ready for 4:3 transmission. But I think it could be done.
__________________
"If I hadn't tried, the cost would have been my soul." - Admiral James T. Kirk, Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2011, 03:17 PM   #203
Art Vandelay
Captain
 
Art Vandelay's Avatar
 
Location: New Vertiform City
Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Opening up the image left and right is no option either. Directors of photography exist for a reason, and shots are composed by framing them properly.

There are some TV DVDs of 4:3 shows around that open up the frame to gain (force, really) a 16:9 image, and what you get is...
  • Most of the time: Empty space left and right. Lots of it. Actors huddling each other center frame.
  • Sometimes: Half faces, noses, ears of actors that are not supposed to be in frame.
  • Every once in a while: Visible production equipment.
Completely unacceptable. Just look at the European releases of Buffy.

TNG in HD has to go OAR, or it's a no go.
Art Vandelay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2011, 03:35 PM   #204
Dac
Commodore
 
Dac's Avatar
 
Location: The Essex wastes...
View Dac's Twitter Profile Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Dac
Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Well, I took a stab at them:



Full Res: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...idescreen1.jpg



Full Res: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...idescreen2.jpg



Yes, they are tricky shots. Yes, I did squash/stretch them and Yes, I did resort to using content aware fill to "widen" the image...but I'd say none of the critical information has been lost in the transformation. Everyone's face is still in shot, everyone's uniform is visible to some degree and, most importantly, Troi's cleavage is left unharmed.

So while my techniques may have been clumsy and haphazard, if this schmuck can do it, I dare say the folks over at CBS digital could as well.

EDIT: And Yes, these have been blown up to 720p. I did my best with some digital noise reduction, but as you can clearly see its nowhere near enough HD quality.
Dac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2011, 03:40 PM   #205
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Dac wrote: View Post

Yes, they are tricky shots. Yes, I did squash/stretch them and Yes, I did resort to using content aware fill to "widen" the image...but I'd say none of the critical information has been lost in the transformation. Everyone's face is still in shot, everyone's uniform is visible to some degree and, most importantly, Troi's cleavage is left unharmed.

So while my techniques may have been clumsy and haphazard, if this schmuck can do it, I dare say the folks over at CBS digital could as well.

EDIT: And Yes, these have been blown up to 720p. I did my best with some digital noise reduction, but as you can clearly see its nowhere near enough HD quality.
You've already went down the road I was exploring.

These don't look bad. The trick is what they'll look like in motion.
__________________
"If I hadn't tried, the cost would have been my soul." - Admiral James T. Kirk, Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2011, 03:47 PM   #206
Dac
Commodore
 
Dac's Avatar
 
Location: The Essex wastes...
View Dac's Twitter Profile Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Dac
Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

^^^ And if I had TNG on DVD I would attempt it.

If I had...wait, I DO have the Best of Both Worlds somewhere....*looks*
Dac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2011, 03:49 PM   #207
Art Vandelay
Captain
 
Art Vandelay's Avatar
 
Location: New Vertiform City
Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Dac, while I appreciate what you did: No, just no.
These shots are cramped, very noticeably squashed, and just - off.

If someone feels the curious need for a fullscreen feature to fill an entire 16:9 screen, let them stretch, zoom, whatever - in their private homes.

Let's not ask CBS to abandon the OAR and rape the image on upcoming high-def releases, forcing all customers to go along with said curious need. Please.
Art Vandelay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2011, 03:56 PM   #208
BlobVanDam
Fleet Captain
 
BlobVanDam's Avatar
 
Location: Australia
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to BlobVanDam Send a message via Yahoo to BlobVanDam
Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Dac wrote: View Post
Well, I took a stab at them:



Full Res: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...idescreen1.jpg



Full Res: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...idescreen2.jpg



Yes, they are tricky shots. Yes, I did squash/stretch them and Yes, I did resort to using content aware fill to "widen" the image...but I'd say none of the critical information has been lost in the transformation. Everyone's face is still in shot, everyone's uniform is visible to some degree and, most importantly, Troi's cleavage is left unharmed.

So while my techniques may have been clumsy and haphazard, if this schmuck can do it, I dare say the folks over at CBS digital could as well.

EDIT: And Yes, these have been blown up to 720p. I did my best with some digital noise reduction, but as you can clearly see its nowhere near enough HD quality.
While it may retain the "critical" information, it has lost it's composition entirely. You've got two torsos barely in frame at the bottom of the screen, and Worf's head only just in shot. My eye is drawn all over the place trying to sort it out and it's quite tiring to look at now, because everything is now pushed to the edges of the frame instead of being placed where it's intended. Artistically, this is now terrible. And this is one random shot. Imagine them doing this for hundreds of shots per episode for 180 episodes.

(edit: I was referring to the first shot. The second one isn't as bad aside from cropping off a bit of Riker's head, but it's still noticeably worse)

If ruining shots is the price to pay for "widescreen", then it's pointless. Widescreen does not instantly make things look good, especially when you've had to ruin a shot to do so.
BlobVanDam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2011, 03:56 PM   #209
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Art Vandelay wrote: View Post
Dac, while I appreciate what you did: No, just no.
These shots are cramped, very noticeably squashed, and just - off.

If someone feels the curious need for a fullscreen feature to fill an entire 16:9 screen, let them stretch, zoom, whatever - in their private homes.

Let's not ask CBS to abandon the OAR and rape the image on upcoming high-def releases, forcing all customers to go along with said curious need. Please.
If the idea is to make TNG presentable on HDTV, then they should at least explore expanding the aspect ratio. I imagine most people hate the black bars on the left and right of their 16:9 screens as much as people hated the black bars on the top and bottom of their 4:3 screens.

If this is about mass consumption, then they'd be short-sighted not to explore changing the ratio.
__________________
"If I hadn't tried, the cost would have been my soul." - Admiral James T. Kirk, Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2011, 04:06 PM   #210
Dac
Commodore
 
Dac's Avatar
 
Location: The Essex wastes...
View Dac's Twitter Profile Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Dac
Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Hey, those results are by no means definitive. They are the product of all but 5 minutes work. Yes, the framing is off but some more intensive work could probably correct this. All I know is that if its possible to create a 16:9 HD TNG I would like a 16:9 HD TNG. Otherwise it would not be full HD.
Dac is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
remastered, tng-r

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:56 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.