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Old December 24 2009, 03:00 PM   #31
Robert Maxwell
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Re: Does James Cameron Owe Poul Anderson Money?

Kelso wrote: View Post
JoeD80 wrote: View Post
I was pointed to some information on the Ellison suit: it was the Starlog Interview in Issue #89 where Cameron allegedly said that he based it on Harlan's episode in the Outer Limits, and the production company had that stricken from the published version, but Ellison learned of it. The only Outer Limits episode mentioned in Ellison's suit was "Soldier" as far as I can tell.
Ellison gave an account of the events in this interview.
Great video, thanks! I hope Cameron has since learned to keep his fool mouth shut.
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Old June 2 2011, 04:06 PM   #32
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Re: Does James Cameron Owe Poul Anderson Money?

I just finished reading Call Me Joe by Poul Anderson without prior knowledge of James Cameron borrowing from it. The first page struck me as oddly familiar. After that the similarities to Avatar are unnerving. Yes, James ripped avatar from Poul Anderson and at the very least should give the man credit. This story was written in the 50's, the man was born in 1926, he was ahead of his time. Anyone who thinks that old Sci-Fi writers do not deserve credit are horribly uneducated people, and it just illuminates the current trend of decay in our society. I watched Avatar once and that was enough for me, I cringe when I hear the term Sci-Fi attached to that piece of hyped fantasy. Real Sci-Fi fans know the difference. James took liberties with a decent Sci-Fi story and added tree spirits, love, evil vs good and destroyed any semblance to Mr. Anderson's original. But adding those painful to watch Fantasy elements doesn't absolve Cameron of plagerisim. This should be made public, the man is a fraud, and allowing word trolls like him to use the term 'original' is akin to an evil parent rubbing lemon juice on a childs open wound, it's abuse of power. Now I know why I disliked Avatar and wanted 3 hours of my life
back.
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Old June 2 2011, 04:23 PM   #33
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Re: Does James Cameron Owe Poul Anderson Money?

Borggirl wrote: View Post
Yes, James ripped avatar from Poul Anderson and at the very least should give the man credit. .

Gee, then Anderson ripped it off from a dozen other places.

Borggirl wrote: View Post
Now I know why I disliked Avatar and wanted 3 hours of my life
back.
Right - you disliked the movie at the time you saw it based on alleged plagiarism you knew nothing about at the time you saw it.

That statement doesn't even meet a minimal test of logic for anything other than a meaningless attempt to provoke an argument.
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Old June 2 2011, 11:18 PM   #34
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Re: Does James Cameron Owe Poul Anderson Money?

Braaaiinns!
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Old June 2 2011, 11:41 PM   #35
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Re: Does James Cameron Owe Poul Anderson Money?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Er, they were both inspired bythe same historical event: the sinking of the Titanic. That's not plagiarism, just history.

A NIGHT TO REMEMBER (a great film, btw) didn't exactly invent the business about the ship hitting the iceberg . . . which is about all the films have in common.
^Correction, they had two things in common. The whole iceberg bit AND David Warner.
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Old June 3 2011, 12:42 AM   #36
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Re: Does James Cameron Owe Poul Anderson Money?

Tree spirits? Far be it for me to defend Avatar... but, the clear implication of the movie is that Pandora is a biological machine and a self-aware planet that all the life on is connected to. Its basically one huge Cylon resurrection/Wi-Fi network, powered by the fabulously, generically termed unobtainium.

As has been stated, this story/plot line hasn't ever been particularly "original", at least since the rise of Western Civilization.

And ugg "true scifi"? Do we really need to nitpick that again? (I know the answer, of course we do...) all storytelling is fantasy, no matter the superficial trappings ascribed to it and everything is a remix.
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Old June 3 2011, 12:50 AM   #37
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Re: Does James Cameron Owe Poul Anderson Money?

Kelso wrote: View Post
JoeD80 wrote: View Post
I was pointed to some information on the Ellison suit: it was the Starlog Interview in Issue #89 where Cameron allegedly said that he based it on Harlan's episode in the Outer Limits, and the production company had that stricken from the published version, but Ellison learned of it. The only Outer Limits episode mentioned in Ellison's suit was "Soldier" as far as I can tell.
Ellison gave an account of the events in this interview.
Thanks Kelso. You saved me the trouble of doing a Google Video Search. I hadn't seen this video for over a year, but I did remember it.

After watching it, I decided to look at another Harlan Ellison video interview on the list on the right side of the webpage. Here it is. Harlan is funny and he speaks the truth. He reminds me of the stand-up comedian Lewis Black in this short interview.


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Old June 3 2011, 12:58 AM   #38
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Re: Does James Cameron Owe Poul Anderson Money?

I think there are a few authors who've written things that resemble Avatar. Ben Bova for instance has an article on his website about a book he wrote that resembles Avatar. It just means that it's not entirely original a concept, that others have thought of it too.
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Old June 3 2011, 03:12 AM   #39
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Re: Does James Cameron Owe Poul Anderson Money?

Borggirl wrote: View Post
I just finished reading Call Me Joe by Poul Anderson without prior knowledge of James Cameron borrowing from it. The first page struck me as oddly familiar. After that the similarities to Avatar are unnerving. Yes, James ripped avatar from Poul Anderson and at the very least should give the man credit. This story was written in the 50's, the man was born in 1926, he was ahead of his time. Anyone who thinks that old Sci-Fi writers do not deserve credit are horribly uneducated people, and it just illuminates the current trend of decay in our society. I watched Avatar once and that was enough for me, I cringe when I hear the term Sci-Fi attached to that piece of hyped fantasy. Real Sci-Fi fans know the difference. James took liberties with a decent Sci-Fi story and added tree spirits, love, evil vs good and destroyed any semblance to Mr. Anderson's original. But adding those painful to watch Fantasy elements doesn't absolve Cameron of plagerisim. This should be made public, the man is a fraud, and allowing word trolls like him to use the term 'original' is akin to an evil parent rubbing lemon juice on a childs open wound, it's abuse of power. Now I know why I disliked Avatar and wanted 3 hours of my life
back.
That's out there.
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Old June 3 2011, 03:22 AM   #40
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Re: Does James Cameron Owe Poul Anderson Money?

And now many writers have sued George Lucas?

Lucas ripped from just about every science fiction pulp story ever made to create his vision... But he never mentioned any specifics..

It simply needs to be stated blatantly for the lawyers to jump on the bandwagon...
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Old June 3 2011, 03:45 AM   #41
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Re: Does James Cameron Owe Poul Anderson Money?

Star Trek = Forbidden Planet.

My God, now I know why I want forty years of my life back!
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Old June 3 2011, 05:46 AM   #42
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Re: Does James Cameron Owe Poul Anderson Money?

Borggirl wrote: View Post
destroyed any semblance to Mr. Anderson's original.
So it's not like the Poul Anderson story?

goldbug wrote: View Post
Lucas ripped from just about every science fiction pulp story ever made to create his vision... But he never mentioned any specifics..
Lucas has admitted to being 'inspired' by the Japanese film Hidden Fortress, and it's well known he invented his own space opera premise when he couldn't get the rights to Flash Gordon.

Other influences are basically worn on his sleeve. C-3PO is essentially a male version of the robot in Metropolis, I won't deign to speculate where Lucas got the idea of a desert planet, etc.
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Old June 3 2011, 06:13 AM   #43
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Re: Does James Cameron Owe Poul Anderson Money?

I won't deign to speculate where Lucas got the idea of a desert planet, etc.
LOL! Don't want to open up that can of worms?
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Old June 3 2011, 10:11 AM   #44
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Re: Does James Cameron Owe Poul Anderson Money?

Is the guy really called Poul Anderson? Who gives a kid such a name?
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Old June 3 2011, 02:10 PM   #45
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Re: Does James Cameron Owe Poul Anderson Money?

The reason why Ellison won was well...Cameron DID rip off his idea.....

Older I guess, less I like his work outside of Terminator. As for Avatar, never watched it (I really don't want to see yet another noble savage film with a plot that has enough holes to sink the Titanic.)
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