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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old May 17 2011, 06:39 PM   #91
CaptainStoner
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD

As a side note to the dicussion above, CRT monitors have vastly better color quality than all but the most expensive LCD's. When I switched from CRT to LCD it was shocking how washed-out everything looked. Sadly now, I don't even notice.
But it would have to be a good CRT. The one that died on me was a high-end 21" I'd picked up from an computer recycler for $70 around 10 years ago. So it had good dot pitch, refresh up to 120hz, and could do super-high resolutions.
However, I'm sure the better LCD's will continue to come down in price over time.
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Old May 17 2011, 07:54 PM   #92
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

monkeyjb1988 wrote: View Post
I have no doubt that all of the filmed elements can be reused. The resolution may not be the best, but the model effects look great and I would hate losing them.
The big potential improvement in TNG FX isn't so much in the model quality (although certain aspects of the 4ft model, like the deflector - could stand to be improved), but the relatively limited shot selection - how many shots of the E-D from above are there, for instance? (It was almost entirely shot from below - technically above since it was upside-down - not for artistic reasons, but because the model was a lot easier to handle that way since the design was so top-heavy).

Even just a few new stock shots to mix in with the standard ones would be nice.

monkeyjb1988 wrote: View Post
(It sounds like, from what the DS9 book says, that the spinoffs saved their elements, but I'm not sure if that changed or what happened since then).
I'd have to check EAS & Drex Files to be sure, but ISTR that while many of the models still exist (Doug Drexler's posted renders of a lot of them), some of them are damaged due to newer versions of the software not reading them right, combined with them not being designed for HD resolution. And they don't necessarily have the data to just rerender the scenes straight up even if the models were perfect.

Read these bits: http://darthmojo.wordpress.com/2008/...k/#comment-830 & http://darthmojo.wordpress.com/2008/...k/#comment-834

GNDN wrote: View Post
SoM wrote: View Post
[There is] a 16:9 version with cropped live-action and expanded CGI effects.

A lot of HD syndication channels preferred to buy the cropped version because idiots complain about black bars left and right,
which is why it was produced.
What markets showed this version? I've never seen or heard of it.
CBS Action in the UK show the cropped version, for starters.
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Old May 17 2011, 08:00 PM   #93
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

SoM wrote: View Post
CBS Action in the UK show the cropped version, for starters.
I was just going to post that. It's the Doomsday Machine now, and in standard definition - it looks stunningly bad.
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Old May 17 2011, 08:42 PM   #94
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Doug Otte wrote: View Post
2) Do Netflix streamers really care about picture quality? Wouldn't they just watch the SD original versions of TNG without complaint?
Streaming through my blu-ray to my HD TV, you better believe I care about the picture quality.
Thanks (to you and others who previously responded) for debunking my ignorant misconception.

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Old May 17 2011, 08:54 PM   #95
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Tomalak wrote: View Post
SoM wrote: View Post
CBS Action in the UK show the cropped version, for starters.
I was just going to post that. It's the Doomsday Machine now, and in standard definition - it looks stunningly bad.
What was so bad about it? The cropped framing? Or the SD picture quality or both?

I would never want 16:9 to be the only version available, but I would be interested in seeing it presented properly, cropped judiciously without in-frame tilting, in full 1080p with the new widescreen visual effects. I'm sure there are exceptions here and there, but I feel that most of the live action shots in TOS and TNG would not be detrimentally hurt by trimming the top and bottom.
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Old May 17 2011, 09:19 PM   #96
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

GNDN wrote: View Post
Tomalak wrote: View Post
SoM wrote: View Post
CBS Action in the UK show the cropped version, for starters.
I was just going to post that. It's the Doomsday Machine now, and in standard definition - it looks stunningly bad.
What was so bad about it? The cropped framing? Or the SD picture quality or both?

I would never want 16:9 to be the only version available, but I would be interested in seeing it presented properly, cropped judiciously without in-frame tilting, in full 1080p with the new widescreen visual effects. I'm sure there are exceptions here and there, but I feel that most of the live action shots in TOS and TNG would not be detrimentally hurt by trimming the top and bottom.
The challenge would be bridge shots that included someone sitting at ops and other people standing. Would all the heads fit in? Would you end up with an awkward half Worf out of frame? Etc...
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Old May 17 2011, 09:43 PM   #97
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Not saying it would be perfect by any means, and yes the leveled bridge of TNG and the many times Riker performed his maneuver next to Data's station would be particular challenges. Still be curious to know how TOS held up from a framing standpoint.

It's easy enough to view a rough version simply by hitting the zoom button on a widescreen tv, but of course the loss in picture quality and lack of control over the tilt make this the least appealing viewing option, on par with stretching the 4:3 image to simply fit the width of 16:9.
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Old May 17 2011, 10:09 PM   #98
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aspect ratio & framing

AviTrek wrote: View Post
The challenge would be bridge shots that included someone sitting at ops and other people standing. Would all the heads fit in? Would you end up with an awkward half Worf out of frame? Etc...
AviTrek see this post from the other [What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?] thread.

TOS-R honored the original framing of TOS by using pillarboxing.

The Twilight Zone is out on Blu-ray now and also honors the 4:3 framing using pillarboxing.

in the early 2000s the HD cable channel got the HD licensing rights to broadcast Hogan's Heroes. They cropped & stretched the image to fill the screen.

Universal HD broadcasts Hogan's Heroes in 1080p High Definition, with the picture being "cropped" and stretched to fit 16:9 television screens, rather than being "pillarboxed" as most non-widescreen programs are on high-definition TV.
source
If you want to know what it would look like see that show on Universal HD.

I think CBS Digital would do the same framing with TNG-R as they did with TOS-R and honor the original framing so compromises are not made.
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Old May 17 2011, 10:21 PM   #99
AviTrek
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Re: aspect ratio & framing

jefferiestubes8 wrote: View Post
AviTrek wrote: View Post
The challenge would be bridge shots that included someone sitting at ops and other people standing. Would all the heads fit in? Would you end up with an awkward half Worf out of frame? Etc...
AviTrek see this post from the other [What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?] thread.

TOS-R honored the original framing of TOS by using pillarboxing.

The Twilight Zone is out on Blu-ray now and also honors the 4:3 framing using pillarboxing.

in the early 2000s the HD cable channel got the HD licensing rights to broadcast Hogan's Heroes. They cropped & stretched the image to fill the screen.

Universal HD broadcasts Hogan's Heroes in 1080p High Definition, with the picture being "cropped" and stretched to fit 16:9 television screens, rather than being "pillarboxed" as most non-widescreen programs are on high-definition TV.
source
If you want to know what it would look like see that show on Universal HD.

I think CBS Digital would do the same framing with TNG-R as they did with TOS-R and honor the original framing so compromises are not made.
I agree CBS will keep the original framing. My comment was, that if they tried to crop it would be difficult because of the multi-leveled bridge. Just another reason why they won't crop(beyond original artistic intent)
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Old May 17 2011, 10:32 PM   #100
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

In the end I'm sure that's for the best. There is no need whatsoever to change the framing. I'm just a little surprised that since the effort was made for TOS, that the 16:9 version was not included on the blu-ray release, but then I suppose that would have required additional disks.
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Old May 18 2011, 12:54 AM   #101
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Harvey wrote: View Post
I'll wait until the official word, of course, but I hope it happens.
Oh Yes. 'MAKE IT SO"
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Old May 18 2011, 01:43 AM   #102
RAMA
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

SoM wrote: View Post
monkeyjb1988 wrote: View Post
I have no doubt that all of the filmed elements can be reused. The resolution may not be the best, but the model effects look great and I would hate losing them.
The big potential improvement in TNG FX isn't so much in the model quality (although certain aspects of the 4ft model, like the deflector - could stand to be improved), but the relatively limited shot selection - how many shots of the E-D from above are there, for instance? (It was almost entirely shot from below - technically above since it was upside-down - not for artistic reasons, but because the model was a lot easier to handle that way since the design was so top-heavy).

Even just a few new stock shots to mix in with the standard ones would be nice.

monkeyjb1988 wrote: View Post
(It sounds like, from what the DS9 book says, that the spinoffs saved their elements, but I'm not sure if that changed or what happened since then).
I'd have to check EAS & Drex Files to be sure, but ISTR that while many of the models still exist (Doug Drexler's posted renders of a lot of them), some of them are damaged due to newer versions of the software not reading them right, combined with them not being designed for HD resolution. And they don't necessarily have the data to just rerender the scenes straight up even if the models were perfect.

Read these bits: http://darthmojo.wordpress.com/2008/...k/#comment-830 & http://darthmojo.wordpress.com/2008/...k/#comment-834

GNDN wrote: View Post
SoM wrote: View Post
[There is] a 16:9 version with cropped live-action and expanded CGI effects.

A lot of HD syndication channels preferred to buy the cropped version because idiots complain about black bars left and right,
which is why it was produced.
What markets showed this version? I've never seen or heard of it.
CBS Action in the UK show the cropped version, for starters.
Someone could make the argument that new FX of the E-D would go a long way towards "correcting" the discrepancies in the various models of the Enterprise.

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Old May 18 2011, 01:59 AM   #103
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD

CaptainStoner wrote: View Post
As a side note to the dicussion above, CRT monitors have vastly better color quality than all but the most expensive LCD's. When I switched from CRT to LCD it was shocking how washed-out everything looked. Sadly now, I don't even notice.
But it would have to be a good CRT. The one that died on me was a high-end 21" I'd picked up from an computer recycler for $70 around 10 years ago. So it had good dot pitch, refresh up to 120hz, and could do super-high resolutions.
However, I'm sure the better LCD's will continue to come down in price over time.

I don't miss my CRTs one bit...my first LCD was slightly washed out, but the last 2 have been immeasurably better.
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Old May 18 2011, 02:14 AM   #104
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Re: '

Poopday Machine wrote: View Post
AviTrek wrote: View Post
Actually, a good CRT is going to have better blacks and shadow detail than what's out there today. An HD signal might contain more detail, but in terms of blacks LCDs/Plasmas just can't compare to a good CRT.
Good luck seeing them through the scan lines, interlacing, and low refresh rate. There's nothing actually better about CRTs.
Unless one happens to own a CRT HDTV...like myself..



it handles multiple resolutions MUCH better than my newer LCD set...

But it's small.. 26" and heavy so it now lives in the bedroom...
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Old May 18 2011, 03:55 AM   #105
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Re: '

goldbug wrote: View Post
it handles multiple resolutions MUCH better than my newer LCD set...
That's because CRTs don't have a native resolution like an LCD. Unfortunate that's only a byproduct of being analog, who's other by product it being less sharp.
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