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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old May 10 2011, 08:27 PM   #31
BillJ
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

JJohnson wrote: View Post

I'm a bit annoyed to this day that they didn't re-do all the planet skies to look like more than just dinky colored backdrops. Putting in clouds, the occasional bird or bird-like creature, a sun, a moon or three, that would've gone a long way to help the show look better, as well as taking all the upper displays on the bridge and actually animating them so they don't look like little more than portraits.
I'm pretty sure they did add some "sky effects" to several episodes. I know we see two moons in the sky in Bread and Circuses.

Replacing the upper bridge monitors would've broken the meager budget CBS gave them for the project. I imagine TNG will receive the same meager budget.
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Old May 10 2011, 08:29 PM   #32
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Admiral Bear wrote: View Post
Really hope this happens, although HD in pan & scan is kind of an unwanted novelty these days, being so used to 2:35:1 and the other widscreen ratios.

AFAIK, DS9 and Voyager will never happen on Blu-ray as they were shot straight on to video. There are no HD film masters to clean up and transfer.
Your terminology is all wrong. "Pan & Scan" refers to cropping a movie that was originally widescreen and making it 4x3. TNG is natively 4x3. Creating a widescreen version of TNG would involve "Pan & Tilt" and cropping the top/bottom of the image.

And as people have mentioned multiple times in this thread already, TNG, DS9, and VOY all have the same issue. They were shot on film, but had all editing and post-production work done in video. The reason DS9 and VOY are less likely is because they would have a harder time generating enough revenue to justify the cost of re-editing every episode and redoing every fx shot.
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Old May 10 2011, 08:38 PM   #33
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Well this would be a HUGE undertaking, considering both the number of episodes, amount of VFX per episode, and the necessity to go back to the camera negative and edit from scratch, if it were to be done right. Anything less would, IMO be a waste of time and resources.

As mentioned somewhere upthread, my biggest concern would also be that viewership numbers or sales would at some point not meet with CBS's expectations, and the project have it's plug pulled half-way through. I, for one, would definitely be interested in TNG and DS9 on blu-ray in HD.

Admiral Bear wrote: View Post
Really hope this happens, although HD in pan & scan is kind of an unwanted novelty these days, being so used to 2:35:1 and the other widscreen ratios.
TOS did gangbusters on blu-ray without being in widescreen, so I don't see aspect ratio being a concern for TNG. To be clear, however, pan & scan refers to the reformatting of a widescreen image by cropping off the sides. As TNG was never intended for widescreen in the first place, no pan & scan is required.

That said, take a look at this Ex Astris Scientia article on converting TNG footage to a widescreen aspect ratio for ENT. While not perfect, I wouldn't be opposed to a judiciously cropped "pan & tilt" version (without the stretching that was applied) as an option as long as the original 4:3 was also preserved. I've felt the same way about TOS, as much as the new FX are fun to look at at times, it could also be fun to fill the widescreen frame, but only if the 4:3 frame is preserved an option (as the original TOS VFX are still an option on blu-ray)

Admiral Bear wrote: View Post
AFAIK, DS9 and Voyager will never happen on Blu-ray as they were shot straight on to video. There are no HD film masters to clean up and transfer.
ALL Trek was filmed on 35mm film until the final season of ENT, so quality of the live action footage is not an issue. What is at issue is the anticipated sales of the subsequent series, balanced against the increased costs of new VFX production and editing the original negatives. It was the post-production process that, beginning with TNG, was mastered on video tape. So all the edits and VFX would have to be recreated to muster full 1080p HD quality.

I'm sure they wouldn't bother, but seeing as the model work was also shot originally on film, the option exists to re-composite certain VFX shots as well (as demonstrated by the Big-E's beauty pass in Generations.) Would love to see more shots of the 6' model rendered properly!!!
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Old May 10 2011, 08:43 PM   #34
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Admiral Bear wrote: View Post
Really hope this happens, although HD in pan & scan is kind of an unwanted novelty these days, being so used to 2:35:1 and the other widscreen ratios.

AFAIK, DS9 and Voyager will never happen on Blu-ray as they were shot straight on to video. There are no HD film masters to clean up and transfer.
DS9 and Voyager were shot on film and edited on tape exactly like TNG. As mentioned by someone in the comments over at TrekMovie, the "Making of DS9" book by the Reeves-Stevens goes into some detail on the subject:

Here’s the initial explanation:

“Every physical element of Deep Space Nine is shot on film, not videotape. However, that film is just a first step. As soon as it’s printed, it’s sent to Unitel Video, where it is transferred to D2 videotape. Then the film is put into storage and —provided no disasters occur while an episode is in postproduction—it never sees the light of day again.”

This paragraph points to this footnote:

“In the planning stages of The Next Generation, an important decision was made that still affects Deep Space Nine today. The choice Gene Roddenberry and the production team faced was whether to do the visual effects for the new series using film techniques or on video. Video effects were faster and less costly, but only worked on the television screen. Because of video’s low resolution at the time, there would be no final negative print from which film versions of The Next Generation could be edited together for theatrical release in other countries.

Ultimately, the decision was made to go to video, and Deep Space Nine continues that process today. Thus, although the resolution of the visual effects is much higher today than was possible in 1987, there are no final film prints of any episode of either series, and the episodes cannot be rescanned at the higher resolution necessary for high-definition television broadcast in the future.

Theoretically, it would be possible to return to the original raw film and redo all the visual effects at higher resolution, but such a step would be the equivalent of putting the show through the complete postproduction process again. It will be much less expensive to wait for enhancement technology to be developed so the final video versions of Deep Space Nine episodes can be reprocessed rather than being remade.”
(Thanks to Mark R. Largent over at TrekMovie from which this was shamelessly copied)

EDIT: Beaten to it! Oh well, the above quote is still quite interesting.
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Old May 10 2011, 09:02 PM   #35
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

BillJ wrote: View Post
Isn't that where the TOS-R team got into trouble though? Trying to remake a classic (Balance of Terror) to relaunch the series without first working out the kinks.
I would like to think they "worked out the kinks" with TOS-R, so they'd know what they were doing by the time they got to TNG-R.
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Old May 10 2011, 09:18 PM   #36
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

I haven't bought a DVD in nearly a decade but I would buy every last episode of TNG if it were remastered well.
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Old May 10 2011, 11:54 PM   #37
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

StewMc wrote: View Post

Theoretically, it would be possible to return to the original raw film and redo all the visual effects at higher resolution, but such a step would be the equivalent of putting the show through the complete postproduction process again. It will be much less expensive to wait for enhancement technology to be developed so the final video versions of Deep Space Nine episodes can be reprocessed rather than being remade.”
I think they'll be waiting a while. As good as upscaling might be, you're still inventing pixels that aren't there, and from already soft VT to start with. It won't look anything like as good as genuine high definition productions.

Obviously rescanning and re-editing the episodes from scratch might be prohibitively expensive, but if we just get Encounter At Farpoint scaled up with some CGI, I don't think I'll be too impressed.
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Old May 11 2011, 12:43 AM   #38
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Well if they where going to do it, I would do the likes of S3-4 first, as they where the stronger seasons.
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Old May 11 2011, 12:47 AM   #39
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

I'd like season 1 done first, because it looks the worst. Maybe it won't seem as bad in high definition rather than murky NTSC?
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Old May 11 2011, 01:09 AM   #40
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

MrPointy wrote: View Post
Remastered TNG is going to sell bucketloads on any format. I didn't get TOS-R; I never completely got into 60's Trek, but I would buy TNG Bluray in a heartbeat.

I'm hoping that if it does happen, we'll eventually get HD upscales of DS9 and Voyager, not complete remastering because they probably don't need it.
You know there are new editing technologies come out left and right, there may be ways to simplify this whole process through hardware or software, and even if not, I am sure STNG-R will make back its cost for CBS.
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Old May 11 2011, 03:01 AM   #41
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

GNDN wrote: View Post
I'm sure they wouldn't bother, but seeing as the model work was also shot originally on film, the option exists to re-composite certain VFX shots as well (as demonstrated by the Big-E's beauty pass in Generations.) Would love to see more shots of the 6' model rendered properly!!!
Same here. And if this project goes off full steam, I have some concerns. Certain TNG FX shots, like the ones in WNOHGB, were works of art I'd hate to see lost. They'd need to be lovingly recreated.

RAMA wrote: View Post
MrPointy wrote: View Post
Remastered TNG is going to sell bucketloads on any format. I didn't get TOS-R; I never completely got into 60's Trek, but I would buy TNG Bluray in a heartbeat.

I'm hoping that if it does happen, we'll eventually get HD upscales of DS9 and Voyager, not complete remastering because they probably don't need it.
Yopu know there are new editing technologies come out left and right, there may be ways to simply this whole process, and even if not, I am sure STNG-R will make back its cost for CBS.
I'd think so too. I did get into TOS, the shows, the films, comics, but TNG is the big dog in terms of mass appeal. It would be shown a lot on HDTV. The discs will sell. I imagine since the Trek DVD's have been so expensive a TNG-R will be the priciest blu-ray out there.
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Old May 11 2011, 04:15 AM   #42
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

CaptainStoner wrote: View Post
GNDN wrote: View Post
I'm sure they wouldn't bother, but seeing as the model work was also shot originally on film, the option exists to re-composite certain VFX shots as well (as demonstrated by the Big-E's beauty pass in Generations.) Would love to see more shots of the 6' model rendered properly!!!
Same here. And if this project goes off full steam, I have some concerns. Certain TNG FX shots, like the ones in WNOHGB, were works of art I'd hate to see lost. They'd need to be lovingly recreated.
The original TOS effects were included on the Blurays, the same could be done for TNG.
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Old May 11 2011, 04:23 AM   #43
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Admiral Bear wrote: View Post
AFAIK, DS9 and Voyager will never happen on Blu-ray as they were shot straight on to video. There are no HD film masters to clean up and transfer.
Not true. Their live action was shot on film just like TNG was.
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Old May 11 2011, 07:46 AM   #44
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Dear CBS,
I would happily work on remastering TNG in HD for only the price of the plane ticket, and enough money to maintain my holo-addiction. In return you will get many years of almost free labour from a true Trek fan (just the other night I dreamed that Spock fell in love with me, but it was nuSpock so it sorta doesn't count, but it's the thought that counts, right?). Just to prove that I'm serious, I modeled Voyager. Only a true diehard fan would waste time on Voyager.

Yours sincerely, BlobVanDam

PS. Don't be surprised if the original film frame of the Picard facepalm goes missing and miraculously reappears in my Trek collection.
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Old May 11 2011, 10:00 AM   #45
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Tomalak wrote: View Post
The original TOS effects were included on the Blurays, the same could be done for TNG.
They were on film though. Remastering the TOS episodes would be remaster whole episode from film, then replace effects shots.

TNG would be recreate the episode from original recordings (hopefully all sorts of deleted scenes would turn up in the process) then recreate VFX shots. To include the original FX would mean upscaling that footage and inserting in the new HD master.
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