So I've started watching Supernatural...

[JWD75]

Supernatural is a good show but it falls just short of greatness. It's certainly better than 95% of the garbage on TV nowdays. I feel that Bugs is the only truly awful episode of the entire show. A lot of people seem to hate Route 666, but I rather liked it.

[mswood]

Alex1939 wrote:

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Yeah I'm gonna have to disagree.

If I were to recommend this show to someone, I would tell them to stop at the end of season3.

The brotherly angst continuing past that point just made the show eyeroll inducing for me.

See and to not keep the angst (actually increasing it) would utterly betray the material of their lives.

It's one thing to have what people call Soap opera angst, but with the lives these two are shown having, they would have angst, buckets full.

In fact my problem with the show in this regard is they rarely ever really accurately address how very depressed these characters would be.

[mswood]

For myself seasons 4 is easily the best followed by season 2. Season 3 takes awhile to start going, but when it does it does great, of course then the writers strike kills it right at the height of its material.

Seasons five suffers after a strong start then focusing two much time on softer (or out and out humor) episodes, that just really don't feel appropriate for that season. But it does produce some great episodes.

Season 6 I still haven't found a utterly great episode, but I have only disliked one of the episodes this season. Its probably the most consistent season, but it isn't the best.

I honestly have a hard time deciding out of seasons 3, 5, and 6 which I would rate better.

And then there is season 1, my least liked season. It took the show a while to figure out the characters (and the actors to get their roles down), the show often used very poor actors, and played far less seriously with the material. That does end, but its evident through most of the season. It features more episodes I actively dislike then any other season, and really has only one great episode.

And I love the show, but its primarily due to the relationship between the two leads. Its the strongest brother relationship I have ever watched on tv, and one of the things they almost always get right, even in crappy episodes.

[Alex1939]

mswood wrote:

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And I love the show, but its primarily due to the relationship between the two leads. Its the strongest brother relationship I have ever watched on tv, and one of the things they almost always get right, even in crappy episodes.

Eh, as someone with several brothers I just can't agree with this. They milked the angst so much that it's complete overkill and like I said, I basically quit watching because I just couldn't deal with it anymore.


Well and then there is my 2nd major complaint. The main plot for seasons 4 and 5. I don't mind the plot as much as I didn't like Sam and Dean's role in that plot. If they were just a piece of the story, or a background characters instead of... what they were... then I think I would've liked it more.

I wish the show had stayed more episodic as in seasons 1 and 2 and not went in the plot directions it chose to go in latter seasons.

[timothy]

I just resently rewatched the series on tnt starting at season 1 all the way through to season 5. loved it waiting for season 6 to come to tnt. now a question on season 5. did they ever explain where god was?

[Aeolusdallas]

timothy wrote:

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I just resently rewatched the series on tnt starting at season 1 all the way through to season 5. loved it waiting for season 6 to come to tnt. now a question on season 5. did they ever explain where god was?

The ending of the 5th season heavily implied [spoiler]that Chuck was God and had been hiding in plain sight all along.[/spoiler]

[timothy]

that's what I thought was'nt sure. and when will season six be on tnt?

[Lt. Trull]

Aeolusdallas wrote:

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The ending of the 5th season heavily implied that Chuck was God and had been hiding in plain sight all along.

do you think that god is still writing those books about the boys....
kinda makes you think he favor's them....

[Alex1939]

Uh..... spoilers?

[mswood]

Alex1939 wrote:

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Eh, as someone with several brothers I just can't agree with this. They milked the angst so much that it's complete overkill and like I said, I basically quit watching because I just couldn't deal with it anymore.


Well and then there is my 2nd major complaint. The main plot for seasons 4 and 5. I don't mind the plot as much as I didn't like Sam and Dean's role in that plot. If they were just a piece of the story, or a background characters instead of... what they were... then I think I would've liked it more.

I wish the show had stayed more episodic as in seasons 1 and 2 and not went in the plot directions it chose to go in latter seasons.

Now I can certainly understand not liking plot elements, and such or even general roles. But one can't use one's own relationships to judge how much angst the characters would experience. Since we can't mention specifics, its worse then any two beings who live on earth have experienced. Certainly one's own family couldn't even scrape a feather of off what these two have gone through (even before seasons 4 and 5 come up with), and I can understand that depressing a viewer (ie not wanting to watch it), but that doesn't mean that the characters shouldn't experience it.

[Kestrel]

Argh spoilers.

Anyway, I find the argument about whether the show's too depressing interesting and I look forward to getting into the meat of the angst. Although these last two episodes certainly ratcheted it up.

1x11 Scarecrow
I know the most important part of this episode isn't the monster of the week but rather the hints towards the larger plot, but darnit I really liked the episodic part of it as well. That basic storyline of "small town has a deep dark secret that keeps it alive and happy when everything around it is wasting away" really appeals to me, whether it's done as a comedy like in Hot Fuzz or as serious drama as here and in American Gods. Doing whatever it takes "for the common good" including sacrificing outsiders is a fairly standard bit of commentary, but it's executed well here - especially with Emily saying "let it die" when they burn the Tree. Seeing Dean try to operate without Sam was fun and especially the way he self-lampshaded it when he couldn't convince the couple to just leave town. The scarecrow was creepy enough, though I wonder if it mightn't have been more effective if it'd stayed silent? Would it be nitpicky to point out that in fact a Vanir is a god? And of course the way Sam and Dean look at each other when they're going their separate ways... aww. I've said it again, and I'm sure it'll come up much more, but Ackles and Padelecki are great at playing brothers. Dean needs Sam around despite any protestations, and I know from the next episode how much Sam needs Dean.

Then of course there's the Sam subplot with the cute hitchhiker Meg. Such a sweet girl, if a bit dedicated to being rebellious and oddly attached to him after such a short time, no? So what I've picked up from this is that whatever the demon is that killed Mary and Jess, it knows John is coming and knew Sam was going to join him - thus siccing his daughter Meg on Sam. Was she going to simply kill him, or try and seduce him to Team Evil? I'm guessing not just kill, because she had opportunity for that, and Daddy Demon could've done so himself in the past. I have no doubt we'll see her again, and fairly soon. Good episode, 9/10. Oh wait, I said I was going to drop the scale. Well, it's very good anyway.

1x12 Faith
Nope, never saw the wife's pulling the strings coming - though of course once it was explained it was the only thing that really made sense. God save us from Your followers, indeed. There's one question left completely unanswered though: why'd the preacher choose Dean? Was it as simple as Dean was the one who challenged the preacher? I guess that's probably the best answer. Interestingly, this episode is sorta related to one I saw from a later season, where Dean gets to be Death for a day - really great episode, and also featured a Reaper, though a much nicer to look at one. Also, Death looked a lot like this Reaper, though less... decayed, so I was expecting the Reaper to be Death. Anyway, I like how this episode showed us more of how close these brothers really are and how much Sam's willing to do to help Dean - and of course there was a lot of great angst once the connection between Dean's healing and the death of that runner was discovered. Not to mention the angst of Dean having to break up Layla's healing, somebody who truly deserved to be healed (you could almost see him thinking "For this one I'll play God," though maybe I'm biased by having seen that later episode). I was kinda expecting Layla to be healed when the Reaper took the preacher's wife, but that would've robbed us of a great "Julie Benz has come to terms with the fact that her death is inevitable and she's made peace with it" moment. I like the melancholy, and I also like Dean's statement that he'll pray for Layla. I get the sense that things have shifted now fir Sam and Dean - Dean appeared to have made some peace with his impending death, and now he lives with the knowledge that another man died in his place; and Sam gets to live with both the guilt of probably feeling responsible for that and also happiness to have his brother back. How delightful.

[Alex1939]

mswood wrote:

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Now I can certainly understand not liking plot elements, and such or even general roles. But one can't use one's own relationships to judge how much angst the characters would experience.

Well I guess I just can't respect your opinion that it's the "strongest brother relationship ever on tv".

"No one has experienced anything as difficult as them"... well that's a good reason they should be focusing on other things than angst. And it seems real brothers would either quit constantly talking about it, or they would move their separate ways and not continue to be in each others lives.

To me, their relationship is in neutral from season 1 to season 5. I had quit caring long before season 6, and the stories weren't strong enough to keep me watching. (Although I am intrigued by a few of the plots you guys talked about in recent episodes.)

[Aeon]

mswood wrote:

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Seasons five suffers after a strong start then focusing two much time on softer (or out and out humor) episodes, that just really don't feel appropriate for that season. But it does produce some great episodes.

Also the ending of the season (and the overall storyline) is definitely lacking the punch and I'm sure that the small budget is to blame. While I understand very well that the core of the story has always been the brothers and while I like the solution, the backdrop of the finale needed something similar to what we saw in The End. If you're going to have Michael and Lucifer starting their destined fight, you are going to need an army of followers backing them up and at least one city totally destroyed. Not just an empty field.

[mswood]

Alex1939

Well I guess I just can't respect your opinion that it's the "strongest brother relationship ever on tv".

First I said of the shows I have watched, certainly in 45 years I haven't watched every show to ever be broadcast.

But I haven't seen another show that has its two siblings so tied to each other. That would almost due anything and everything for the other. (Sorry being vague because no spoilers).

Now notice I said strongest relationship, notice I didn't say balanced or well adjusted, because they aren't not even close. Its a truly messed up, co dependent relationship but its an exceptionally strong one.

"No one has experienced anything as difficult as them"... well that's a good reason they should be focusing on other things than angst.

Okay do you really watch the show, the characters frequently use humor, drinking, sex and music to avoid the "angst".

And it seems real brothers would either quit constantly talking about it

Again, do you watch the show. How often do these two really talk about their feelings? It isn't often, not at all. The majority of the time they brush each other off. They have used again humor, women, drinking, physical violence, ect all to avoid having in depth conversations.

or they would move their separate ways and not continue to be in each others lives

Also seem to recall this occurring as well multiple times in fact, and thats even with their insane level of codependency. You might think that might explain why Sam not only had no contact with John, but also broke off all contact with Dean while he was at school.

To me, their relationship is in neutral from season 1 to season 5.

Seriously, you can't see any changes in behavior or attitude from either character towards the other and how it shapes how they interact with each other?

[Dorian Thompson]

Ahhhh, a new convert. Welcome to the fold. If you loved season one, season two is going to blow you away. Season six is going along very well and unfolding nicely. The only season that, IMO, lacked a cohesive storyline without proper suspense (though it had several individual episodes that resonated) was season five. Still, some loved it. What I've found with SPN is that the characters really resonate, so I'm good. Wait until you see some of Ben Edlund's episodes. That man is bizarre.

Bipolar. Suicidal. Teddy bear. That's not a signature, Kestrel.