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Old April 4 2011, 01:39 AM   #16
sojourner
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Re: Ships Of The Starfleet Museum

^Let me rephrase then. They exist explicitly outside the Trek Universe.
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Old April 4 2011, 05:24 AM   #17
Wingsley
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Re: Ships Of The Starfleet Museum

Masao wrote: View Post
I've never understood why a lot of people seem to like this fat little ship, but I appreciate it. Looks very nice, XFoz!
It's all personally subjective, of course. Here's my theory, FWIW.

It all goes back to what Spock said in "Balance of Terror". He recited history of the Earth-Romulan Conflict of approximately 100 years pre-TOS during his address to the crew. Spock spoke of a war fought with "primitive atomic weapons" and "primitive space vessels which allowed no quarter, no captives". People's imagination ran away with that. Look what Goldstein & Goldstein came up with in the 1980 "Star Trek Spaceflight Chronology", which, in some respects, was a precursor to Masao's Museum.

People saw Khan's S.S. Botany Bay in "Space Seed", and they saw Kirk's Enterprise. Small wonder that fans over the years haven't come up with even more funny-looking specimens to fill in the evolutionary blanks.

There's a great deal of apparent logical thought behind ships like the ones in the Museum. It's too bad we didn't see more of that in ENTERPRISE.

All that said, I can't help but to see hints of 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY and even SPACE: 1999 in the Museum ships. They definitely look closer to TOS art than with the Goldsteins came up with in 1980. Still, ENT, for all its flaws, still casts a shadow.

For me, the Museum ships have nacelles that look a little too divergent from TOS and ENT. (Of course, to be fair, I understand the Museum to have been originally conceived prior to ENT.) The Phoenix from FIRST CONTACT should be factored in as well. (Ironically, the ENT ep "First Flight" scored a huge artistic success with the NX-Alpha prototypes; too bad we didn't see more of this.)
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Old April 4 2011, 05:58 AM   #18
largo
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Re: Ships Of The Starfleet Museum

sojourner wrote: View Post
^The Discovery does not exist in the Trek Universe, nor the Heinlein ship.
i'm sure the movie was still made.
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Old April 5 2011, 02:26 AM   #19
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Re: Ships Of The Starfleet Museum

Obviously.
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Old April 5 2011, 03:32 AM   #20
Kail
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Re: Ships Of The Starfleet Museum

Love it!!
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Old April 5 2011, 02:24 PM   #21
aridas sofia
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Re: Ships Of The Starfleet Museum

Wingsley wrote: View Post
... For me, the Museum ships have nacelles that look a little too divergent from TOS and ENT. (Of course, to be fair, I understand the Museum to have been originally conceived prior to ENT.) The Phoenix from FIRST CONTACT should be factored in as well. (Ironically, the ENT ep "First Flight" scored a huge artistic success with the NX-Alpha prototypes; too bad we didn't see more of this.)
To the extent that the classic nacelle communicates "Star Trek" to people, and that creators of "Star Trek" have to communicate that feel to viewers in order for their work to be accepted, yes. And yet, that didn't stop Roddenberry, Jefferies and the rest from dumping the classic nacelle entirely when they redesigned the Enterprise in 1979...

Star Trek was at least said to have been made on the assumption that TV producers could expect a little more thinking from their viewers and still succeed. Is it too much to expect them not to need the same basic nacelles in 2060, 2160 and 2260? In real life, was the Wright flyer too divergent from the balloons that preceded it? Were the jets that followed too divergent from the propellers of their predecessors? What about rockets with their little stubby wings? Sure, people might have looked at the first airplane and said, "That can't fly. It doesn't look anything like a balloon!" But our shared experience tells us that as technology improves, the look of things change. Is it too much to expect an audience to look at art set before the original Star Trek and expect technology that looks as different as the Wright flyer looks from the rocket, or from the balloon? I don't think so, and believe this is where the makers of the later shows got it wrong, and where Masao gets it right. It may not be canon, but that doesn't really matter. What he does won't be canon anyway. But it is good and thought provoking art. To the extent that the producers of Trek have embraced his work, and with it the idea that they can expect a little more from the consumers of their products, that's all for the good.
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Old April 5 2011, 04:26 PM   #22
Warped9
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Re: Ships Of The Starfleet Museum

Masao (and others) took the idea presented in "Balance Of Terror" to heart and their designs play on the idea of a 22nd century being decidedly less advanced than TOS. When it came to ENT they just wanted to continue doing contemporary Trek a la TNG-VOY and mildly redressed it.

I never cared for how ENT told its stories and I cared even less for how they depicted the 22nd century setting. But then I couldn't stand how they treated Zefram Cochrane and the 21st century either. It was straight-up revisionism and not giving a shit about what TOS established or the idea s they were trying to put across.
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Old April 5 2011, 06:35 PM   #23
Patrickivan
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Re: Ships Of The Starfleet Museum

XFozzboute wrote: View Post
Something I've been working on for awhile.
All I really need to do is finish up a few textures and I’m done.


And a sneek peek at the Krechet.

Is this (above) based directly on Jefferie's sketches when they were fleshing out ships for TOS? I made some a while ago based on his ideas.
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Old April 6 2011, 12:35 AM   #24
Masao
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Re: Ships Of The Starfleet Museum

Patrickivan wrote: View Post
Is this (above) based directly on Jefferie's sketches when they were fleshing out ships for TOS? I made some a while ago based on his ideas.
Nope. Any resemblance is coincidental.
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Old April 6 2011, 12:46 AM   #25
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Re: Ships Of The Starfleet Museum

But a fortunate one nonetheless, methinks.
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Old April 7 2011, 01:17 PM   #26
Forbin
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Re: Ships Of The Starfleet Museum

As someone who has a terrible time with textures and image maps, may I say, GREAT-looking textures and image maps!
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Old April 7 2011, 04:21 PM   #27
Irishman
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Re: Ships Of The Starfleet Museum

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Masao (and others) took the idea presented in "Balance Of Terror" to heart and their designs play on the idea of a 22nd century being decidedly less advanced than TOS. When it came to ENT they just wanted to continue doing contemporary Trek a la TNG-VOY and mildly redressed it.

I never cared for how ENT told its stories and I cared even less for how they depicted the 22nd century setting. But then I couldn't stand how they treated Zefram Cochrane and the 21st century either. It was straight-up revisionism and not giving a shit about what TOS established or the idea s they were trying to put across.
I've told him this for years, and I love Masao's eye for detail and imagination. SOME of his vessels look amazing.

But, taken as a whole, his designs look a little too Micro-Machine to me.
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Old April 7 2011, 04:24 PM   #28
Irishman
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Re: Ships Of The Starfleet Museum

Warped9 wrote: View Post
I never cared for how ENT told its stories and I cared even less for how they depicted the 22nd century setting.
You didn't like how ENT depicted the Andorians? I think they got the best efforts of the whole series.

The Vulcans would be a second best.
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Old April 7 2011, 07:40 PM   #29
C.E. Evans
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Re: Ships Of The Starfleet Museum

Irishman wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
Masao (and others) took the idea presented in "Balance Of Terror" to heart and their designs play on the idea of a 22nd century being decidedly less advanced than TOS. When it came to ENT they just wanted to continue doing contemporary Trek a la TNG-VOY and mildly redressed it.

I never cared for how ENT told its stories and I cared even less for how they depicted the 22nd century setting. But then I couldn't stand how they treated Zefram Cochrane and the 21st century either. It was straight-up revisionism and not giving a shit about what TOS established or the idea s they were trying to put across.
I've told him this for years, and I love Masao's eye for detail and imagination. SOME of his vessels look amazing.

But, taken as a whole, his designs look a little too Micro-Machine to me.
I love Micro-Machines!
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Old April 16 2011, 12:48 AM   #30
XFozzboute
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Re: Ships Of The Starfleet Museum

Ok. I'm done. It's far from perfect but I'm happy with it as it is.
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