Should K'Ehleyr have replaced Troi?

Morpheus 02 · March 11 2011, 08:34 PM

I was just re-watching "reunion" the other day, and was just amazed at what range Suzy Plakson gave K'Ehleyr during the course of an episode. And how the character is -- she would have been so useful to Picard, in addition to being a logical person to have a relationship with (as opposed to Troi??)

Should K'Ehleyr have replaced Troi as the Counselor (or a modified role as Captain's advisor)?

Sure, she was an ambassador, but as we have seen, that hasn't stopped other Trek characters from taking a place on the Bridge.

If not in this episode (which had K'Ehleyr's dramatic death, that certainly works for the story) ...then maybe an alternate K'Ehleyr somehow following Worf to the Enterprise.

Subcommander R. · March 11 2011, 10:27 PM

I was torn between 'no' and 'I never thought about it.'

And I only never thought about it because 'no.'If this makes any sense at all.

Nerys Myk · March 12 2011, 01:19 AM

I would think she needs some sort of training to be a counselor. To my knowledge K'Ehleyr has no background in psychotherapy. As for advising the captain, he has no shortage of those. Though one skilled in diplomacy would be a plus. Wasn't Troi on the bridge because she was an empath and Picard figured that would be useful? A Captain's prerogative type thing?

Though as an Ambassor K'Ehleyr could overrule and second guess Picard in certain situations. I can't see any Captain wanting that. I'd require her to resign her postion as an Ambassor and join Starfleet first.

WillsBabe · March 12 2011, 08:30 AM

I say no, I don't think she should have replaced Troi as counselor or a character. I do think she would have made a great regular, or reoccuring character, though.

macloudt · March 12 2011, 05:32 PM

As WillsBabe says, I don't think she would have been a suitable replacement for Troi, but I wish K'Ehleyr had survived as she's one of my favourite TNG characters. Even if she didn't stay on the Enterprise she could have been a recurring guest as Worf's mate, which would have also relieved us of some of the tedious scenes between Worf and Alexander.

sonak · March 12 2011, 05:43 PM

great character, but the roles are totally different, you couldn't just swap her for Troi, it would make no sense.

K'ehleyr doesn't strike me as a therapist, and she doesn't have Troi's empathic abilities for Picard to use as a resource.

also she remains cool because she was used so sparingly. Regular character status would make her less interesting.

Warped9 · March 12 2011, 07:38 PM

Hmm... K'Ehleyr as Counselor.

Crewman: Counselor, I don't know what's wrong with me. I can't seem to get motivated--

K'Ehleyr: That is too bad. But you better get motivated or I'll kick your ass down the corridor. Or...I have an exercise program that could help with your lack of motivation. It'll keep you on your toes...

Later, 2 minutes on the holodeck and the crewman runs screaming down the corridor...

Morpheus 02 · March 12 2011, 08:30 PM

i wasn't necessarily think K'Ehleyr as replacing Troi as counselor...more like her place at Picard's side on the bridge.

Troi's role there has been (it seems) like stating th eobvious, with no real benefit form her empathic powers. K'Ehleyr could do the same thing by listening to voices and watching expressions.

i think K'Ehleyr would have created dramatic tension among the crew...enough to for us to appreciate cultural diversity (as Pulaski seemed to do)

Trek Survivor · March 12 2011, 08:46 PM

Definitely not.

Warped9 · March 12 2011, 08:52 PM

Troi was simply a bland character that was rarely used well.

DS9 · March 18 2011, 05:50 AM

I don't know about counsellor, but I think K'Ehleyr should have had a more prominent or reoccurring role in TNG in some way.

Tallifer · March 18 2011, 06:19 AM

No, Guinan should have replaced Troi.

Warped9 · March 18 2011, 02:39 PM

Tallifer wrote:

No, Guinan should have replaced Troi.

Yes!

LitmusDragon · March 18 2011, 04:32 PM

Nevar! I'm a Marina Sirtis fan though so I wouldn't want her replaced by anybody.

YellowSubmarine · March 18 2011, 10:56 PM

I'm not sure what to answer here.

I never liked Troi's character too much, and how Marina Sirtis played the role. The result reminds me of the archetypal psychic – exactly the one who wouldn't have any telepathic abilities. And I was never convinced that she was suitable for her job that much, it felt as if only her telepathic abilities made her a counsellor, she seemed to lack good scientific knowledge of the mind to work as that, she was mostly used as an additional sensor on the ship – “I sense this”, “I sense that”, “I don't sense anything...” She had a few very good episodes, and she got better later on, but to me it felt like attempts to fix a character that hadn't be thought well enough and using the character's unintended flaws to the show's advantage. Oh, and they gave her an uniform and changed her hair style, both of which were significant improvements.

And I was in love with K'Ehleyr the first time she appeared, I watched the episodes where she appeared more than a dozen times.

But I'm not sure that she'd make a good regular, in fact I'd say she'd be worse as a regular. I'd be happy if she got more episodes in a larger arc though. And she wouldn't fit in the place of Troi, not to mention that there were many episodes that would be significantly worse if Troi wasn't there. My memory is not too good, but I think I'd miss her in “First Contact” (the movie; although she wasn't the usual Troi there), in “Parallels”, in “Disaster”, in “Thine Own Self”, and now I think to watch “Face of the Enemy” again.

In short, I'd prefer K'Ehleyr over Troi any time, but I'd say removing Troi from the show would be a terrible idea, and bringing too much K'Ehleyr in the show might not work either. So no.

View Poll Results: Should K'Ehleyr have replaced Troi?
Oh Yes! She would have added much to the crew & stories	7	15.22%
No, the death was appropriate for the story & Worf's arc	20	43.48%
Umm...maybe. Let's discuss it.	8	17.39%
Y'know, I never thought about that...	11	23.91%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

March 11 2011, 08:34 PM	#1
Morpheus 02 Commodore Location: Chicago IL	Should K'Ehleyr have replaced Troi? I was just re-watching "reunion" the other day, and was just amazed at what range Suzy Plakson gave K'Ehleyr during the course of an episode. And how the character is -- she would have been so useful to Picard, in addition to being a logical person to have a relationship with (as opposed to Troi??) Should K'Ehleyr have replaced Troi as the Counselor (or a modified role as Captain's advisor)? Sure, she was an ambassador, but as we have seen, that hasn't stopped other Trek characters from taking a place on the Bridge. If not in this episode (which had K'Ehleyr's dramatic death, that certainly works for the story) ...then maybe an alternate K'Ehleyr somehow following Worf to the Enterprise. __________________ Morpheus 02 a.k.a. JP Paulus jp [at] paulus . com

March 11 2011, 10:27 PM	#2
Subcommander R. Commodore Location: California	Re: Should K'Ehleyr have replaced Troi? I was torn between 'no' and 'I never thought about it.' And I only never thought about it because 'no.'If this makes any sense at all. __________________ Ice cream, Mandrake? Children's ice cream?

March 12 2011, 01:19 AM	#3
Nerys Myk Admiral Location: House of Kang, now with ridges	Re: Should K'Ehleyr have replaced Troi? I would think she needs some sort of training to be a counselor. To my knowledge K'Ehleyr has no background in psychotherapy. As for advising the captain, he has no shortage of those. Though one skilled in diplomacy would be a plus. Wasn't Troi on the bridge because she was an empath and Picard figured that would be useful? A Captain's prerogative type thing? Though as an Ambassor K'Ehleyr could overrule and second guess Picard in certain situations. I can't see any Captain wanting that. I'd require her to resign her postion as an Ambassor and join Starfleet first. __________________ Nerys Myk's Midnight In Never Land A novel of Dark Fantasy @ Amazon.com

March 12 2011, 08:30 AM	#4
WillsBabe Vice Admiral	Re: Should K'Ehleyr have replaced Troi? I say no, I don't think she should have replaced Troi as counselor or a character. I do think she would have made a great regular, or reoccuring character, though. __________________

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March 12 2011, 05:32 PM	#5
macloudt Shut up, I'm counting Location: a Canuck in southwest England	Re: Should K'Ehleyr have replaced Troi? As WillsBabe says, I don't think she would have been a suitable replacement for Troi, but I wish K'Ehleyr had survived as she's one of my favourite TNG characters. Even if she didn't stay on the Enterprise she could have been a recurring guest as Worf's mate, which would have also relieved us of some of the tedious scenes between Worf and Alexander. __________________ "Tough and funny and a little bit kind: that is as near to perfection as a human being can be."--Mignon McLaughlin My crafting and cooking blog

March 12 2011, 05:43 PM	#6
sonak Rear Admiral Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination	Re: Should K'Ehleyr have replaced Troi? great character, but the roles are totally different, you couldn't just swap her for Troi, it would make no sense. K'ehleyr doesn't strike me as a therapist, and she doesn't have Troi's empathic abilities for Picard to use as a resource. also she remains cool because she was used so sparingly. Regular character status would make her less interesting.

March 12 2011, 07:38 PM	#7
Warped9 Admiral Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada	Re: Should K'Ehleyr have replaced Troi? Hmm... K'Ehleyr as Counselor. Crewman: Counselor, I don't know what's wrong with me. I can't seem to get motivated-- K'Ehleyr: That is too bad. But you better get motivated or I'll kick your ass down the corridor. Or...I have an exercise program that could help with your lack of motivation. It'll keep you on your toes... Later, 2 minutes on the holodeck and the crewman runs screaming down the corridor... __________________ *STAR TREK:* 1964-1991 Last edited by Warped9; March 12 2011 at 07:49 PM.

March 12 2011, 08:30 PM	#8
Morpheus 02 Commodore Location: Chicago IL	Re: Should K'Ehleyr have replaced Troi? i wasn't necessarily think K'Ehleyr as replacing Troi as counselor...more like her place at Picard's side on the bridge. Troi's role there has been (it seems) like stating th eobvious, with no real benefit form her empathic powers. K'Ehleyr could do the same thing by listening to voices and watching expressions. i think K'Ehleyr would have created dramatic tension among the crew...enough to for us to appreciate cultural diversity (as Pulaski seemed to do) __________________ Morpheus 02 a.k.a. JP Paulus jp [at] paulus . com

March 12 2011, 08:46 PM	#9
Trek Survivor Captain Location: UK	Re: Should K'Ehleyr have replaced Troi? Definitely not. __________________ Want an awesome read? Check out "Showdown: A Darker Evil Rising" on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Showdown-Darke...er+evil+rising

March 12 2011, 08:52 PM	#10
Warped9 Admiral Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada	Re: Should K'Ehleyr have replaced Troi? Troi was simply a bland character that was rarely used well. __________________ *STAR TREK:* 1964-1991

March 18 2011, 05:50 AM	#11
DS9 Lieutenant Location: Chicago, IL	Re: Should K'Ehleyr have replaced Troi? I don't know about counsellor, but I think K'Ehleyr should have had a more prominent or reoccurring role in TNG in some way.

March 18 2011, 06:19 AM	#12
Tallifer Lieutenant Commander Location: Pusan, Korea	Re: Should K'Ehleyr have replaced Troi? No, Guinan should have replaced Troi.

March 18 2011, 04:32 PM	#14
LitmusDragon Commodore Location: The Barmuda Triangle	Re: Should K'Ehleyr have replaced Troi? Nevar! I'm a Marina Sirtis fan though so I wouldn't want her replaced by anybody. __________________ Check out my photos of Oregon on Facebook Linguiphiles, unite!

March 18 2011, 10:56 PM	#15
YellowSubmarine Commodore	Re: Should K'Ehleyr have replaced Troi? I'm not sure what to answer here. I never liked Troi's character too much, and how Marina Sirtis played the role. The result reminds me of the archetypal psychic – exactly the one who wouldn't have any telepathic abilities. And I was never convinced that she was suitable for her job that much, it felt as if only her telepathic abilities made her a counsellor, she seemed to lack good scientific knowledge of the mind to work as that, she was mostly used as an additional sensor on the ship – “I sense this”, “I sense that”, “I don't sense anything...” She had a few very good episodes, and she got better later on, but to me it felt like attempts to fix a character that hadn't be thought well enough and using the character's unintended flaws to the show's advantage. Oh, and they gave her an uniform and changed her hair style, both of which were significant improvements. And I was in love with K'Ehleyr the first time she appeared, I watched the episodes where she appeared more than a dozen times. But I'm not sure that she'd make a good regular, in fact I'd say she'd be worse as a regular. I'd be happy if she got more episodes in a larger arc though. And she wouldn't fit in the place of Troi, not to mention that there were many episodes that would be significantly worse if Troi wasn't there. My memory is not too good, but I think I'd miss her in “First Contact” (the movie; although she wasn't the usual Troi there), in “Parallels”, in “Disaster”, in “Thine Own Self”, and now I think to watch “Face of the Enemy” again. In short, I'd prefer K'Ehleyr over Troi any time, but I'd say removing Troi from the show would be a terrible idea, and bringing too much K'Ehleyr in the show might not work either. So no.