New Vulcan

[JB2005]

But they had had visual contact with the crew of the Narada, so that's what changed...

[BillJ]

JB2005 wrote:

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But they had had visual contact with the crew of the Narada, so that's what changed...

Problem is... nowhere is it mentioned that these are Romulans that attacked the Kelvin.

They only had the readings from their sensors to identify who was attacking them.

So this attack could've been carried out by renegade Vulcans, a Vulcan-oid species or possibly the Rigelians who have a similar make-up.

Journey to Babel wrote:

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SPOCK: Rigelian physiology is very similar to Vulcan

Plus the attack took place near the Klingon border.

[Hythlodeus]

but the technology of the narada was identified. notice how kirks first reaction after hearing about the thunderstorm in space was to ask uhura if the ship that destroyed the klingon vessels was romulan.

nero changed the federations knowledge about romulans.

[OneBuckFilms]

Narada being recognized as Romulan in 2258 - The Narada appeared, and probably had some recognizable energy signatures, or some Romulan text, that may have been compared to historical archives of the first Romulan War.

It is also possible that after that event, the Federation may have opened a dialog with the Romulans, and there may have even been an attempted peace treaty.

Between 2233 and 2258, TOS established events do not directly apply.

[BenRoethig]

od0_ital wrote:

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^

Well, the Vulcans are certainly on a new path. The Romulans could well remain the isolationists they've almost always been shown to be.

Or with Nero weakening both the Federation and the Klingons, they could see an opportunity.

[Devon]

BillJ wrote:

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Problem is... nowhere is it mentioned that these are Romulans that attacked the Kelvin.

They only had the readings from their sensors to identify who was attacking them.

There is no problem. I'm sure the shuttles saved a lot more than that. Visual records, telemetry data, etc. In the Star Trek world since abandoning ship is an event that will be put under a court martial then you better bet the shuttles took everything they could with them. And in 25 years I'm sure someone clued them in wouldn't you think? Especially with what was undoubtedly a major event for the federation. Word could have even traveled from Rura Penthe. Like OneBuckFilms and Hythlodeus mentioned.. things changed in this timeline.

[BillJ]

Devon wrote:

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Like OneBuckFilms and Hythlodeus mentioned.. things changed in this timeline.

Which is what I said in an earlier post...

BillJ wrote:

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Something changed... as Pike was able to recognize Nero as a Romulan. In 2265, Spock said that neither side had visual contact with the other... hence the surprise when we see the Romulan commander in Balance of Terror.

[Nerys Myk]

BillJ wrote:

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Which is what I said in an earlier post...

I would assume the Nero was speaking Romulan and not "Federation Standard" when he contacted the Kelvin. The conversation would be included in the Kelvins logs. (Preserved on the shuttles) Any review of them would show a Vulcanoid speaking Romulan. From that point on the sehlat was out of the bag.

Do we really need everything spelled out????

[BillJ]

Nerys Myk wrote:

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I would assume the Nero was speaking Romulan and not "Federation Standard" when he contacted the Kelvin. The conversation would be included in the Kelvins logs. (Preserved on the shuttles) Any review of them would show a Vulcanoid speaking Romulan. From that point on the sehlat was out of the bag.

Do we really need everything spelled out????

But we do know that dialects change over time (Nero is from 130 years in the future) and that Romulan is so close to Vulcan that the Lieutenant manning the Enterprise communication console couldn't tell the two apart, even with the Universal Translator.

Maybe the Universal Translator wasn't going to be installed until Tuesday.

And they can't be serious that the Romulan language only has three dialects... I count dozens of dialects of English alone. Or is it that Uhura speaks the three known dialects (another 'one hell of a coincidence' for a movie full of them) with perhaps hundreds still unknown?

[Nerys Myk]

BillJ wrote:

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But we do know that dialects change over time (Nero is from 130 years in the future) and that Romulan is so close to Vulcan that the Lieutenant manning the Enterprise communication console couldn't tell the two apart, even with the Universal Translator.

And they can't be serious that the Romulan language only has three dialects... I count dozens of dialects of English alone. Or is it that Uhura speaks the three known dialects (another 'one hell of a coincidence' for a movie full of them) with perhaps hundreds still unknown?

I doubt the shift would be so great that the languages would be unintelligable. Its not like when Capt Bateson talked with Picard they needed a translator, so I dont think Nero and Nanclus would need one either.

Well its not like she'd know about any unknown dialects. She's an expert in xenolinquistics, not a glorified telephone operator. (The guy she replace might be, though.) Its her job to study this stuff. She gets her kicks monitoring and translating Klingon transmissions.

Like many Trek aliens, the Romulans seem to be a monoculture with little variation from group to group. I'm surprised they actually have dialects!

[BillJ]

Nerys Myk wrote:

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Well its not like she'd know about any unknown dialects. She's an expert in xenolinquistics, not a glorified telephone operator. (The guy she replace might be, though.) Its her job to study this stuff. She gets her kicks monitoring and translating Klingon transmissions.

It just seems like people who watch the film are trying to have it both ways. Romulan is a distinct enough language that Starfleet is able to tell that it is the language being spoken by the Narada crew (so there is no issue with our crew knowing they are dealing with Romulans later) yet it is so similar to Vulcan, that not even the Enterprise universal translator can tell the two apart. Also, that discounts the fact that the Romulans and Vulcans have been estranged for nearly 2,000 years, the languages should have diverged significantly in that time.

It was designed to present an 'in' to get Uhura onto the bridge. But it was done in a sloppy manner. YMMV.

[M'Sharak]

BillJ wrote:

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But it was done in a sloppy manor.

What, they couldn't afford to hire servants to keep the place tidy?

[JB2005]

M'Sharak wrote:

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What, they couldn't afford to hire servants to keep the place tidy?

Guards!!! Seize him!

[BillJ]

M'Sharak wrote:

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What, they couldn't afford to hire servants to keep the place tidy?

Can't believe I didn't catch that!

[Nerys Myk]

BillJ wrote:

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It just seems like people who watch the film are trying to have it both ways. Romulan is a distinct enough language that Starfleet is able to tell that it is the language being spoken by the Narada crew (so there is no issue with our crew knowing they are dealing with Romulans later) yet it is so similar to Vulcan, that not even the Enterprise universal translator can tell the two apart. Also, that discounts the fact that the Romulans and Vulcans have been estranged for nearly 2,000 years, the languages should have diverged significantly in that time.

It was designed to present an 'in' to get Uhura onto the bridge. But it was done in a sloppy manor. YMMV.

Well even in the Prime Universe Romulan had been heard by Earth and its allies nearly 100 years prior to the split that created the 09verse. So that Starfleet would recognize it is not a stretch. I'm pretty sure every Romulan transmission made prior to and during the war was disected by Earth and later Federation Intelligence. That no one ever noticed that it was similar to Vulcan is the real question. (But Earth's Vulcan masters may have covered that up. ) Romulans and Vulcans seem very cuturally stagnate and stubborn, they've been wearing the same haircuts for over 1000 years! I'm not suprised that their languages are stagnate too.

She was already on the bridge, what it did was give her a reason to stay and do something. Sloppy? Yeah, I thought so too. But it is what it is.