Has TNG Been Remastered? - Page 3

RAMA · February 22 2011, 07:15 PM

Borjis wrote:

ok so I recorded some of these episodes on the WGN HD channel. (i also have the dvd sets)

Yep they look much better!

I think WGN has upgraded their broadcast hardware because months ago TNG looked washed out, very soft and sounded terrible by comparison.

They DO look better shown in HD, but there is only so far they can go. They're hampered by their format.

RAMA

Borjis · February 22 2011, 07:18 PM

of course. (I work in the broadcast/movie industry)

I've seen some stations with HD equipment to broadcast and the upconversions look very bad though.

looks like WGN spent some big money on the upgrade to the good stuff.

I just recorded an episode last night on the WGN SD feed. Will check it later tonight and see if it looks as good...it might.

Doug Otte · February 23 2011, 03:36 PM

We know that TNG hasn't been remastered since the DVDs were issued. So, I think that leaves 2 possibilities:
1) WGN upgraded their equipment; and/or
2) They were originally using older masters for their broadcasts, and recently began using the newer DVD masters.

Doug

Borjis · February 23 2011, 06:38 PM

checked the SD channel recorded episode last night. looks and sounds awful like the HD channel used to be.

So it would seem WGN upgraded the HD Broadcast hardware.

The HD Broadcasts are 95% the same quality as the DVDs.

JarodRussell · February 23 2011, 08:20 PM

NX-01 wrote:

Nope, it hasn't been remastered. To watch in better quality I play the DVD's in my BluRay player which is connected to mt TV through HDMI which upscales the picture slightly....doesn't make too much of a differecnce but it is noticeable.

Oh, there's the upscaling DVDs in blu ray players myth again.

What speaks against tackling it like a real production (minus the whole principle photography and preproduction phase), and air it in HD one episode or two episodes per week, giving them enough time per episode to do full re-editing, remastering, recreating the VFX, covering most of the costs by doing the broadcast.

Trekker4747 · February 23 2011, 11:56 PM

There's decent reasons why the "HD" broadcasts of TNG look better than their original broadcasts it's because Videotape still has, fairly, high reslution to it, infact in the best of circumstances its resolution can almost reach DVD's resolution. (This is the resolution for the type of videotape used on productions like TNG, not the necessairily the resolution of the videotapes you'd buy at the local store.) But it cannot reach HDTV's resolution which is at least 740 lines of resolution. Videotape, even the quality of videotape used in productions (especially production done in the early 90s) cannot achieve this.

So just because TNG is on an HD station doesn't mean the content itself is in HD. It's just digital which isn't the same thing.

Upscaling is one of the more overused terms in the industry right now.

All upscaling does is ensure that the picture will fit your screen. DVD is somewhere around 420 lines of resolution an HDTV is 1080 so do the math. The picture would barely fill half the space on your TV.

"Upscaling" simply has the the player "guess" the color of the pixel between two known pixels in order to make the picture fit the screen. Upscaling cannot add detail becuase the information for the extra detail (read: resolution) isn't there.

JarodRussell · February 24 2011, 12:29 AM

Trekker4747 wrote:

"Upscaling" simply has the the player "guess" the color of the pixel between two known pixels in order to make the picture fit the screen. Upscaling cannot add detail becuase the information for the extra detail (read: resolution) isn't there.

But I've seen in CSI that they can make everything sharper!

Trekker4747 · February 24 2011, 12:50 AM

Ehhh. I think that's a little bit different. In those cases they're taking analogue video and just "making it sharper." Analogue cameras pick up a lot more detail than are displayed on TVs, this is why we can make film (analogue) look sharper or find details. So what's done in video analysis is no different than what happens between a movie going from videotape to DVD or BD the image is sharpened and details are found/made cleaer.

What they do on CSI, however, is way over the line of what even this does. But usually there's more on a videotape than what is usally seen onthe best TV it just takes a computer to find and bring out that detail but even then there's still limits.

Destructor · February 24 2011, 03:45 AM

And don't forget how Harrison Ford looks around corners in his photos on 'Blade Runner'.

LitmusDragon · February 24 2011, 06:27 PM

I'd like to check this out but it looks like I don't get WGN in high def in my area.

Borjis · February 24 2011, 06:45 PM

DVD resolution is 720x480. 480 lines of resolution.

D2 Digital Tape, the format TNG was mastered to and likely the format WGN has in its tape vault has 486 lines of resolution, 720x486. I was actually just playing a D2 tape for a client yesterday and despite it being composite only, it looks damn good.

There is a lot of misinformation out there on up-scaling. There are very poor and very high quality ways to get it done. How much money is spent generally determines that outcome. Some TV stations cheap out and some spend more money. WGN obviously got something of high quality to broadcast the SD content in their HD channel and we're seeing that with TNG.

A lot of blu-ray players have very high quality scalers built in. Much higher quality than a standard DVD player even with component or HDMI outputs. I'm not aware of any TV set to this day that can match the quality of high-end scalers in some of the premium blu-ray players out there.

of course it will never increase the original resolution, but it can do good enough a job to make it look at least as good as it did on a SD tv, just larger.

el Chalupacabra · February 24 2011, 07:15 PM

Even if they do re-release TNG on bluray, I am not going to buy it. I have all the trek series on standard DVD, and I dropped some coin for that. And you know what, it looks fine in an up scaling dvd player. Yeah, its annoying that I don't get a full screen, but it really isn't that big a deal to me. I have a 42" screen, and even in the standard format, it's big enough.

Ugh, I went through this already, when I upgraded from VHS to DVD.

I am not going to re-buy episodes I already have (some of which I have already seen 10+ times), just so I can see them in bluray.

The only thing I would consider re-buying on bluray, is the feature films.

JarodRussell · February 24 2011, 07:27 PM

Borjis wrote:

DVD resolution is 720x480. 480 lines of resolution.

In Europe, it's 720x576. Curious if American Trek DVDs are lousier, or if it doesn't matter.

el Chalupacabra wrote:

Even if they do re-release TNG on bluray, I am not going to buy it. I have all the trek series on standard DVD, and I dropped some coin for that. And you know what, it looks fine in an up scaling dvd player.

I think you'd want to buy them if you see what a HD remastering of TNG looks like. I'm sure it'll look pretty amazing.

el Chalupacabra · February 24 2011, 07:48 PM

Oh, I am sure it does look wayyy better. I just can't justify the expense, because I am sure if\when they come out, it will be $150+ per season.

Borjis · February 24 2011, 10:51 PM

JarodRussell wrote:

Borjis wrote:

DVD resolution is 720x480. 480 lines of resolution.

In Europe, it's 720x576. Curious if American Trek DVDs are lousier, or if it doesn't matter.

I think you'd want to buy them if you see what a HD remastering of TNG looks like. I'm sure it'll look pretty amazing.

yeah the PAL discs would have to be 576 @ 25fps, since the show was mastered in NTSC D2, it was likely upconverted for the PAL dvd set.
If this was done through a device such as a Teranex, the difference would be negligible.

I would buy TNG on blu-ray after it had been out awhile and the prices went down. I just got season 2 & 3 of TOS remastered used and saved a bundle.

February 22 2011, 07:18 PM	#32
Borjis Commodore	Re: Has TNG Been Remastered? of course. (I work in the broadcast/movie industry) I've seen some stations with HD equipment to broadcast and the upconversions look very bad though. looks like WGN spent some big money on the upgrade to the good stuff. I just recorded an episode last night on the WGN SD feed. Will check it later tonight and see if it looks as good...it might.

February 23 2011, 03:36 PM	#33
Doug Otte Fleet Captain	Re: Has TNG Been Remastered? We know that TNG hasn't been remastered since the DVDs were issued. So, I think that leaves 2 possibilities: 1) WGN upgraded their equipment; and/or 2) They were originally using older masters for their broadcasts, and recently began using the newer DVD masters. Doug

February 23 2011, 06:38 PM	#34
Borjis Commodore	Re: Has TNG Been Remastered? checked the SD channel recorded episode last night. looks and sounds awful like the HD channel used to be. So it would seem WGN upgraded the HD Broadcast hardware. The HD Broadcasts are 95% the same quality as the DVDs.

February 23 2011, 11:56 PM	#36
Trekker4747 To boldly go... Location: Kansas City	Re: Has TNG Been Remastered? There's decent reasons why the "HD" broadcasts of TNG look better than their original broadcasts it's because Videotape still has, fairly, high reslution to it, infact in the best of circumstances its resolution can almost reach DVD's resolution. (This is the resolution for the type of videotape used on productions like TNG, not the necessairily the resolution of the videotapes you'd buy at the local store.) But it cannot reach HDTV's resolution which is at least 740 lines of resolution. Videotape, even the quality of videotape used in productions (especially production done in the early 90s) cannot achieve this. So just because TNG is on an HD station doesn't mean the content itself is in HD. It's just digital which isn't the same thing. Upscaling is one of the more overused terms in the industry right now. All upscaling does is ensure that the picture will fit your screen. DVD is somewhere around 420 lines of resolution an HDTV is 1080 so do the math. The picture would barely fill half the space on your TV. "Upscaling" simply has the the player "guess" the color of the pixel between two known pixels in order to make the picture fit the screen. Upscaling cannot add detail becuase the information for the extra detail (read: resolution) isn't there. __________________ Just because it's futuristic doesn't mean it's practical. Last edited by Trekker4747; February 24 2011 at 12:17 AM.

February 24 2011, 12:50 AM	#38
Trekker4747 To boldly go... Location: Kansas City	Re: Has TNG Been Remastered? Ehhh. I think that's a little bit different. In those cases they're taking analogue video and just "making it sharper." Analogue cameras pick up a lot more detail than are displayed on TVs, this is why we can make film (analogue) look sharper or find details. So what's done in video analysis is no different than what happens between a movie going from videotape to DVD or BD the image is sharpened and details are found/made cleaer. What they do on CSI, however, is way over the line of what even this does. But usually there's more on a videotape than what is usally seen onthe best TV it just takes a computer to find and bring out that detail but even then there's still limits. __________________ Just because it's futuristic doesn't mean it's practical.

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February 24 2011, 03:45 AM	#39
Destructor Commodore Location: Melbourne, VIC	Re: Has TNG Been Remastered? And don't forget how Harrison Ford looks around corners in his photos on 'Blade Runner'.

February 24 2011, 06:27 PM	#40
LitmusDragon Commodore Location: The Barmuda Triangle	Re: Has TNG Been Remastered? I'd like to check this out but it looks like I don't get WGN in high def in my area. __________________ Check out my photos of Oregon on Facebook Linguiphiles, unite!

February 24 2011, 06:45 PM	#41
Borjis Commodore	Re: Has TNG Been Remastered? DVD resolution is 720x480. 480 lines of resolution. D2 Digital Tape, the format TNG was mastered to and likely the format WGN has in its tape vault has 486 lines of resolution, 720x486. I was actually just playing a D2 tape for a client yesterday and despite it being composite only, it looks damn good. There is a lot of misinformation out there on up-scaling. There are very poor and very high quality ways to get it done. How much money is spent generally determines that outcome. Some TV stations cheap out and some spend more money. WGN obviously got something of high quality to broadcast the SD content in their HD channel and we're seeing that with TNG. A lot of blu-ray players have very high quality scalers built in. Much higher quality than a standard DVD player even with component or HDMI outputs. I'm not aware of any TV set to this day that can match the quality of high-end scalers in some of the premium blu-ray players out there. of course it will never increase the original resolution, but it can do good enough a job to make it look at least as good as it did on a SD tv, just larger.

February 24 2011, 07:15 PM	#42
el Chalupacabra Lieutenant Commander Location: Kuiper Belt, Sol System	Re: Has TNG Been Remastered? Even if they do re-release TNG on bluray, I am not going to buy it. I have all the trek series on standard DVD, and I dropped some coin for that. And you know what, it looks fine in an up scaling dvd player. Yeah, its annoying that I don't get a full screen, but it really isn't that big a deal to me. I have a 42" screen, and even in the standard format, it's big enough. Ugh, I went through this already, when I upgraded from VHS to DVD. I am not going to re-buy episodes I already have (some of which I have already seen 10+ times), just so I can see them in bluray. The only thing I would consider re-buying on bluray, is the feature films.

February 24 2011, 07:48 PM	#44
el Chalupacabra Lieutenant Commander Location: Kuiper Belt, Sol System	Re: Has TNG Been Remastered? Oh, I am sure it does look wayyy better. I just can't justify the expense, because I am sure if\when they come out, it will be $150+ per season.