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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Sports and Fitness

Sports and Fitness It's football, not soccer.

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Old January 11 2011, 10:41 AM   #3211
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Re: (UEFA) Football Thread - Football not Soccer

There can be no complaints, they simply played us off the park, which is entirely our fault.

Too many players playing out of position and I'm still not entirely sure how Roberts gets anywhere near the first team, he's absolutely woeful. That being said, last night, they all were. Didn't look up for it at all, and the writing was on the wall from the first minute. The only real surprises for me were that it took them as long as it did for them to win the game, and that anyone really considers this a shock.

The penalty wasn't a penalty, Porter took a tumble, and Commons' effort was straight at the keeper. The two-footed tackle on Savage was probably as red card, although you could probably make an argument against that on the basis that his feet never left the floor, hence it probably didn't look to the referee as bad as it actually was.

A defeat is disappointing, but ultimately within the realms of possibility, a defeat where you've been played off the park by a non-league side, completely unacceptable.
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Old January 11 2011, 11:10 AM   #3212
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Re: (UEFA) Football Thread - Football not Soccer

Yeah, can't disagree. When you play with a right back as centre half and a midfielder as right back...really hard to find anything good to say about any of them.

I just don't know where to apportion blame? The players for not turning up? Nigel for having no plan B, the board for leaving us so starved of investment? Comes to something when Luke Moore, who seemed to make a huge difference to us, we can't sign and goes to Swansea!

I've defended the board a lot, I think there's a lot of merit in not living beyond our means, but right now we're like misers scrimping for every penny and if we aren't careful we'll end up relegated. Nigel has proven he can find/nurture talent but he needs to be able to bring in real experience, and real pace, and that means having to spend some money. Really I think its time Clough turned some of the ire he directed at certain players onto the board.
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Old January 11 2011, 12:49 PM   #3213
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Re: (UEFA) Football Thread - Football not Soccer

Starkers wrote: View Post
Yeah, can't disagree. When you play with a right back as centre half and a midfielder as right back...really hard to find anything good to say about any of them.
I really didn't get why we moved Brayford into the middle. Presumably Leacock was injured or suspended, but what about Anderson and Buxton? Or even O'Brien (it's a cup game afterall, blood him FFS!). Playing Brayford there mean't that we had to play Green at RB which is a complete waste of his talent.

I just don't know where to apportion blame? The players for not turning up? Nigel for having no plan B, the board for leaving us so starved of investment? Comes to something when Luke Moore, who seemed to make a huge difference to us, we can't sign and goes to Swansea!
Blame all-round last night. The players were dire, with little effort and application. Nigel certainly has us playing pretty football at times, but you're right, there is no plan B, and let's be honest, what were the chances of being able to play pretty football last night? Against a non-league side in absolutely dire conditions. It was never going to happen, but it seems to be the only way we can play, and when it doesn't work, we look completely ineffective.

I've defended the board a lot, I think there's a lot of merit in not living beyond our means, but right now we're like misers scrimping for every penny and if we aren't careful we'll end up relegated. Nigel has proven he can find/nurture talent but he needs to be able to bring in real experience, and real pace, and that means having to spend some money. Really I think its time Clough turned some of the ire he directed at certain players onto the board.
I'm not a fan of the board to be honest, or our owners. They take a lot of credit for the financial stability of the club but in truth most of that is the legacy left by Gadsby and the Premier League money. When Gadsby et al took over the debt stood at £55m. When GSE took over it stood at £32m with two parachute payments to come (£8m each). GSE recently announced that the debt is now down to £15m, which is just the mortgage on PP. So in essence they've actually reduced the debt by £1m themselves. Well done! That's not to say though that they haven't actually put money in, they have, but look at where that money went - large amounts on funding Jewell's signings, and then another amount paying them all off when most turned out to be sh1te.

The board have said on numerous occasions that we need to be patient in terms of major investment on the pitch. Well, we're still within touching distance of the playoffs, in what has to be the most open championship in years, where there's no team that's running away with it. If the time isn't right now I can't see when it ever will be.

Given that we're in an open transfer window I can't wait to hear what BS Glick Turpin comes out with to justify NOT spending. AGAIN!
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Old January 11 2011, 01:34 PM   #3214
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Re: (UEFA) Football Thread - Football not Soccer

Angel4576 wrote: View Post

I really didn't get why we moved Brayford into the middle. Presumably Leacock was injured or suspended, but what about Anderson and Buxton? Or even O'Brien (it's a cup game afterall, blood him FFS!). Playing Brayford there mean't that we had to play Green at RB which is a complete waste of his talent.
Leacock was on the bench, Clough dropped him after the Forest game and has kept him dropped. Anderson is still injured. Buxton was on the bench last night but probably isn't anywhere near match fit.


Angel4576 wrote: View Post
Blame all-round last night. The players were dire, with little effort and application. Nigel certainly has us playing pretty football at times, but you're right, there is no plan B, and let's be honest, what were the chances of being able to play pretty football last night? Against a non-league side in absolutely dire conditions. It was never going to happen, but it seems to be the only way we can play, and when it doesn't work, we look completely ineffective.
Well it's clear Nigel tried to play differently last night, what with Savage, Bailey and Addison in midfield, but it didn't work. I would have really thought if there was ever a game to play Martin in, this was it.


Angel4576 wrote: View Post
I'm not a fan of the board to be honest, or our owners. They take a lot of credit for the financial stability of the club but in truth most of that is the legacy left by Gadsby and the Premier League money. When Gadsby et al took over the debt stood at £55m. When GSE took over it stood at £32m with two parachute payments to come (£8m each). GSE recently announced that the debt is now down to £15m, which is just the mortgage on PP. So in essence they've actually reduced the debt by £1m themselves. Well done! That's not to say though that they haven't actually put money in, they have, but look at where that money went - large amounts on funding Jewell's signings, and then another amount paying them all off when most turned out to be sh1te.

The board have said on numerous occasions that we need to be patient in terms of major investment on the pitch. Well, we're still within touching distance of the playoffs, in what has to be the most open championship in years, where there's no team that's running away with it. If the time isn't right now I can't see when it ever will be.

Given that we're in an open transfer window I can't wait to hear what BS Glick Turpin comes out with to justify NOT spending. AGAIN!
I have to admit that I think I've come to the end of my tether with them. I don't want us to live beyond our means but there has to be some middle ground. Part of me wishes they'd sell us, I'm just wary about who might buy us! Better GSE than another 3 amigos!

I like to think there's an alternate universe where Jewell didn't become our manager until after we went down so wasn't tarnished with our prem season. I think he is a better manager than his record with us would suggest.
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Old January 11 2011, 01:44 PM   #3215
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Re: (UEFA) Football Thread - Football not Soccer

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Leacock was on the bench, Clough dropped him after the Forest game and has kept him dropped. Anderson is still injured. Buxton was on the bench last night but probably isn't anywhere near match fit.
Personally, I'd probably have played O'Brien. Failing that, Leacock, despite the Forest performance, is a better option than shifting Brayford and playing one of your better midfielders at RB.

Well it's clear Nigel tried to play differently last night, what with Savage, Bailey and Addison in midfield, but it didn't work. I would have really thought if there was ever a game to play Martin in, this was it.
Far too negative. Three defensive midfielders was always going to give us problems creating much going forward. Besides, even with three defensive midfielders, they still waltzed through them time after time. Martin, probably won't play for us again, Nigel seems dead set against using wingers at all.

I have to admit that I think I've come to the end of my tether with them. I don't want us to live beyond our means but there has to be some middle ground. Part of me wishes they'd sell us, I'm just wary about who might buy us! Better GSE than another 3 amigos!
It's amazing how many people seem to have the notion that we can either spend nothing, or way beyond our means. Why can't we have modest investment? With the purchases of Brayford and Bailey alone Nigel's proven that he can put modest sums of money to good use. Instead, he's given nothing to work with.

Re who our likely owners would be if GSE decided to sell up, I'd be very, very surprised if Gadsby didn't come back in.

I like to think there's an alternate universe where Jewell didn't become our manager until after we went down so wasn't tarnished with our prem season. I think he is a better manager than his record with us would suggest.
Yes, I'd agree with this. I don't really know how much input Jewell had in the initial signings that were made in the January transfer window of the Premier League season, just after GSE had come in. Whatever that involvement was, the signings, were a huge millstone around our necks for quite some time.
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Old January 11 2011, 02:08 PM   #3216
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Re: (UEFA) Football Thread - Football not Soccer

Well it was only really Savage and Tito wasn;t it? Mills was on loan, as was Ghalil (is that his name?) I still think Jewell was very close to becoming a legend, but for a handful of results over the Christmas period I think that season would have ended very differently. We were minutes away from beating Newcastle for the second time, would have likely beaten Blackburn if Howard had put his penalty away when we were one nil up, we were minutes away from drawing with Liverpool, and with Bolton. Don't get me wrong we'd have still gone down, but we wouldn't have gone down as the worst team ever, and it was that tag more than anything else that proved a millstone for the team and for Jewell the following year.

We could do worse than Gadsby, but he has to shoulder some of the blame for the 11 point season as well which makes me wary.
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Old January 11 2011, 09:03 PM   #3217
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Re: (UEFA) Football Thread - Football not Soccer

I think you were right in your original point mate, it would have been far better had Jewell come in at the end of the season, rather than January. Sadly, the stigma of that shambolic campaign was on him as well, and he never recovered from that disastrous start.

Gadsby made some huge mistakes at the time - he seriously misjudged the level of investment necessary to compete in the Premier League, which led to the "We won't be there to make up the numbers" comment. He often let the fact that he was a fan get the better of him when he should have been keeping quiet, such as the "Raise the roof signings" comments. The final mistake was in his assessment of GSE and who they represent. He thought that they had the money, which he didn't, to make us able to compete - on current evidence, they didn't, or at least they didn't want to invest those sums of money. That's why he was vocal of his disappointment in the Americans, to the point of effectively getting booted out of the club, and why he offered to buy us back last year.

The thing to bear in mind though, was that current financial stability that we enjoy is largely down to Gadsby. We were also able to compete at Championship level, which we don't really do at the moment. Granted, we were 3rd/4th a few weeks ago, but it's a false position - the league is poor this year, and even then we haven't been able to maintain the form that got us there.

To be honest, at the moment, I'd settle for just being a very good Championship side.
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Old January 11 2011, 10:07 PM   #3218
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Re: (UEFA) Football Thread - Football not Soccer

Yeah the comments Gadsby made really did backfire on him!

I see Glick's been going on about us making a permanant singing...given that Leicester have got Yakuba on loan, why do I think we'll be spending 100K on a striker from Oxford Utd...that said, several of Clough's cheaper signings have been v good.
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Old January 12 2011, 05:24 PM   #3219
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Re: (UEFA) Football Thread - Football not Soccer

Well apparently we're looking at a central defender, a striker and a midfielder (not sure where in midfield, he just said midfield).

I'd guess at Ben Davies from Notts County as the midfielder. We're also interested in Ryan Harley from Exeter, he's a midfielder as well though, so could be either, both or neither!
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Old January 12 2011, 09:30 PM   #3220
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Re: (UEFA) Football Thread - Football not Soccer

I like the way Glick talks about 'quality' loans. Well guess we'll have to wait and see.

I notice Craig Bellamy's been arrested, in fairness he's kept a low profile for months so he was probably about due!
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Old January 12 2011, 10:11 PM   #3221
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Re: (UEFA) Football Thread - Football not Soccer

^ That's exactly what we said!

Apparently he 'assaulted' someone in a street in Cardiff that is known to one and all of us as 'chippy alley'. It's basically a side-street just over the main street in the City centre and nearly every building in it is a chippy or a kebab house. It's infamous for exactly this kind of thing!
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Old January 13 2011, 09:41 AM   #3222
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Re: (UEFA) Football Thread - Football not Soccer

Savage possibly on his way to Vancouver Whitecaps!

To be fair, great opportunity for a final payday for him, and from what I've heard, we've already told him that he won't be with us next season, in any capacity. Seems like a good deal for all concerned. As much as Sav's won me over, he's too easily bypassed these days. Can't fault his effort, but his age has caught up with him.

I guess, with Addison now back, it'll be him and Bailey fighting it out for the holding role.
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Old January 13 2011, 10:43 AM   #3223
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Re: (UEFA) Football Thread - Football not Soccer

Why is it that the sound of "chippy alley" makes me feel hungry

It's always difficult with people like Bellamy. On the one hand trouble does seem to follow some players around, but you can also imagine a situation whereby the drunk and lary target players seen out and about. Thing is there are some players who seem to put this sort of thing behind them--Roy Keane did, Woodgate did (though he was clearly just hanging around with the wrong mates rather than anything else)-- and some don't.

Savage to Vancouver! Didn't see that coming. I somehow doubt it's a payday thing, I can't imagine they'd pay him that much, he isn't David Beckham after all! But it is an opportunity to do something very different, and clearly we weren't gonna offer him another contract. I can't help wondering if he'll say Vancouver is closer to Wales than Derby though

I like the bloke, he's actually a different player to the one I always imagined. For a start a much better passer of the ball, and he comes across like a true pro. Someone on one of the 606 forums was joking that he might be made manager if clough went and that training would be pie and chips, which seems a really dumb thing to say (even by 606 standards) because the guy is bloody fit for his age, obviously takes very good care of himself and like I say seems a model pro, someone a lot of a younger players could do worse than look up to. I can't recall lurid stories of cheating on his wife, altercations in alleyways, drunken or drug fueled romps...I hope some of his better traits have rubbed off on the Derby players.

I'd still like us to sign another defensve midfielder though, Addison won't be at his best till next season, and neither he or Bailey over overflowing with experience.

The talk seems to be of Davis as the permanat signing with a loan defender and striker (personally I think a loan defender is a good idea, but really wish we'd sign another striker permanantly!)
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Old January 13 2011, 05:44 PM   #3224
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Re: (UEFA) Football Thread - Football not Soccer

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Savage to Vancouver! Didn't see that coming. I somehow doubt it's a payday thing, I can't imagine they'd pay him that much, he isn't David Beckham after all!
Apparently they've sold over 20,000 season tickets already and have moved to a new $300m stadium. Sounds like they might have a bit of $$$ behind them afterall. He won't get Beckham money, but you'd imagine a nice decent signing-on fee and wages would probably not be beyond them.

I like the bloke, he's actually a different player to the one I always imagined. For a start a much better passer of the ball, and he comes across like a true pro. Someone on one of the 606 forums was joking that he might be made manager if clough went and that training would be pie and chips, which seems a really dumb thing to say (even by 606 standards) because the guy is bloody fit for his age, obviously takes very good care of himself and like I say seems a model pro, someone a lot of a younger players could do worse than look up to. I can't recall lurid stories of cheating on his wife, altercations in alleyways, drunken or drug fueled romps...I hope some of his better traits have rubbed off on the Derby players.
Wouldn't disagree with that at all. Testament to him that given his history with Derby he's managed to turn the vast majority of fan-opinion. You just really wish that we'd been able to get him a few years earlier when he was at the top of his game. A model professional, which I'd never have thought I'd be saying before or even when he joined us.

I'd still like us to sign another defensve midfielder though, Addison won't be at his best till next season, and neither he or Bailey over overflowing with experience.
I suspect that Clough may see Pearson in that role, rightly or wrongly.

The talk seems to be of Davis as the permanat signing with a loan defender and striker (personally I think a loan defender is a good idea, but really wish we'd sign another striker permanantly!)
Agree - Porter's the only out-and-out striker we have, the rest are all attacking midfielders-cum-strikers; Davies, Cwyka, Commons etc.
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Old January 14 2011, 10:55 AM   #3225
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Re: (UEFA) Football Thread - Football not Soccer

Yeah I wish Sav had joined us a year or so before. I remember a friend of mine saying when we signed him that he was the kind of player you hate, unless he's playing for you. More players could do with his comittment levels. Looks like he's had enough though and can't blame him for taking the offer up.

Pearson's no defensive midfielder, although actually its hard to figure out exactly what kind of midfielder he is. He has the pace and power of an attacking midfielder coupled with the goalscoring ability of a goalkeeper! He's also never bloody fit! (Thanks a lot Billy Davies! Although clough gave him another deal which was mad!)

I think Steve Davis could fulfil the lone striker role, I just don't trust him to stay fit either. And frankly I don't trust Porter and I'm still unsure about him, he seems to have some kind of mind control skill that makes me think he's a really prolific striker, but when you actually look at his record its poor! For me Clough needs to sign two strikers...doubt he will.

so, Ben Davies (or Davis I get confused with em all) Common's replacement?

What's your view on bywater by the way? Interesting that our purple patch coincided with Fielding being between the sticks...
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