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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate Rough Beasts Of Empire
Outstanding 36 25.35%
Above Average 59 41.55%
Average 25 17.61%
Below Average 13 9.15%
Poor 9 6.34%
Voters: 142. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 2 2011, 05:02 PM   #91
ATimson
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

David R. George III wrote: View Post


David R. George III wrote: View Post
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Old January 2 2011, 05:26 PM   #92
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

Did anybody really like
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Old January 2 2011, 06:25 PM   #93
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread


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Old January 2 2011, 07:22 PM   #94
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

rfmcdpei wrote: View Post
ProtoAvatar wrote: View Post
rfmcdpei, considering your soft-spot for the romulans and especially for the 'rihannsu' book series detailinng their culture, I think you'll be pleased to find out that RBoE integrates some information from said book series into the main continuity such as: the romulans calling themselves rihannsu; the romulan naming fetish.
Indeed, the integration intensifies ...

By the way, is that you over at Centauri Dreams?
If you're referring to the O'Neill colonies viability discussion, then yes.

It's a shame: the Ascendants really do need to be developed. And what has happened to the Dominion?
Regarding the Ascendants conflict - it's pretty certain that, at present, there are no plans to conclude the plot-line. The hints regarding the conclusion of the conflict present in RBoE are FAR too obvious.


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Old January 2 2011, 08:14 PM   #95
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

It's been so long since I read any of the previous DS9 books, I'm not sure is a recap and what is fill-in in place of story, its seems that the Ascendants conflict was resolved by [SPOILER]A big fight on a moon[/SPOILER] - now did we see that happen or is that fill-in?
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Old January 2 2011, 11:24 PM   #96
David R. George III
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

flemm wrote: View Post

David R. George III wrote: View Post
You can debate about the wisdom of believing in prophecy, but what the Prophets offer is not really prophecy; it's eyewitness testimony.
It presents that same problem that regular prophecy does to human beings in that the words are enigmatic. What does that mean? What does that mean? is the constant refrain when dealing with the prophets. A good example of this is the episode Destiny, wherein everyone misinterprets the prophecy about the Temple Gates in one way or another, which influences their actions as they struggle to understand what the words mean. It's only once the prophecy has fulfilled itself that full understanding is possible. Part of the question becomes: what would you have done in this situation had there been no prophecy? This is an important question because the quandry is something like the following: "We can't really know what the words mean or whether the prophecy will be fulfilled, but we can be true to ourselves and do what we think is right."

Inevitably, if characters begin to betray themselves and do things that are manifestly wrong because of what they have heard in prophecy, that is catastrophic because (1) they are probably misinterpreting the prophecy, (2) they are acting out of fear and (3) betraying their own sense of ethics and morality. This is relevant whether or not we believe in prophecy because the same scenario can arise whenever human beings act out of fear or believe they know what the future will bring. The story in RBoE seems to be unaware of these types of issues.


flemm wrote: View Post



flemm wrote: View Post



flemm wrote: View Post



JoeZhang wrote: View Post

I thought this was fairly poor, it's well written in many ways and would make a great space opera book if done with original characters but not so great as a Star Trek book. The first problem is that it simply feels like a Spock book with some DS9 aspects rammed into it rather than a coherent novel.


JoeZhang wrote: View Post



JoeZhang wrote: View Post



Ronald Held wrote: View Post

I am uncertain that without Spock, the Reunification movement will go much farther than it will go in those years. Then again, I do not think the Typhoon pact will last that long.
Interesting thoughts.

Ronald Held wrote: View Post

This may be an unpopular sentiment, bu I think that without the influence of the Prophets, Sisko would have been an unexceptional individual.


flemm wrote: View Post



kkozoriz1 wrote: View Post



flemm wrote: View Post

David R. George III wrote: View Post
Really, this has always been the case, ever since the final episode of the television series.
Agreed, certainly, on this point. The DS9 novels have always required a different approach. It's also true that we are probably subjecting the DS9 aspect of RBoE to a disproportionate amount of scrutiny given that the focus is largely on the Spock and Romulan Empire plot thread.
Agreed.

flemm wrote: View Post

There was a certain amount of editorial box-checking going on here (now we know where most, if not all of the DS9 characters are in the current timeline) and that's fine. Obviously, it was a necessary part of bringing the DS9-R up to speed with everything else.
I don't agree with the "box-checking" characterization. But yes, the decision was made at the editorial level to bring the Deep Space Nine characters into the "current" Trek literary timeframe.

flemm wrote: View Post

That being said, the Sisko storyline strikes me as very poorly conceived for reasons I described above.
Really? That didn't quite come through.

Look, I know you didn't like it, I know you think it was a bad choice. I take no offense at that. The appreciation of art is subjective. But I suspect that far more thought went into this story than you think. Maybe I failed in my job as a writer. Maybe you brought your own preferences and preconceptions to bear on the story and took away from it things I did not intend. Maybe I brought my own preferences and preconceptions to bear and did not successfully convey what I wanted to convey. Maybe you have poor reading comprehension. You and I obviously disagree about the novel, and that's fine. Sure, I would prefer if every reader loved my work, but that's seems pretty unlikely. Plus I always understood that, for some readers, the Sisko tale would be a hard sell--and for some, an impossible sell. I conceived and wrote this story and I more or less am pleased with how it came out. Sorry it didn't work for you.

flemm wrote: View Post

It could probably be salvaged in a subsequent novel, and I certainly hope it will be.
I'm guessing you hope I don't write the next Sisko tale.

rfmcdpei wrote: View Post



rfmcdpei wrote: View Post

What you say gets to the heart of my own feelings about this.


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Old January 3 2011, 12:26 AM   #97
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

Forgive me but the quote levels and spoiler tags defeated me so this is mostly hand done <g>

DRGIII said earlier that:

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Old January 3 2011, 01:25 AM   #98
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

flemm wrote: View Post

In passing, what is the etiquette for the spoiler tags now that the book is in stores? Do we get to stop using them at some point? Once they proliferate to this extent it starts to get a bit distracting
I find them annoying too, especially when I have to use them so much in these hugely long posts. I'd respond to everybody individually, but board rules don't allow for consecutive posts by one user.

Anyway, although I don't care for the spoiler tags either, my novel has just started appearing in stores, so I am understandably protective of my work. Thanks for understanding. I do appreciate it.

JoeZhang wrote: View Post



Truth wrote: View Post



ATimson wrote: View Post



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toughlittleship wrote: View Post



Sorry...hit the "submit" button before finishing. Oh well. More later.
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Old January 3 2011, 01:43 AM   #99
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

David R. George III wrote: View Post
I find them annoying too, especially when I have to use them so much in these hugely long posts. I'd respond to everybody individually, but board rules don't allow for consecutive posts by one user.

Anyway, although I don't care for the spoiler tags either, my novel has just started appearing in stores, so I am understandably protective of my work. Thanks for understanding. I do appreciate it.
If I'm not totally mistaken we had two threads on the same book in the past (one with and one without spoiler), so I guess you or anyone interested could start a separate spoiler thread to avoid the whole spoiler tag issue.
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Old January 3 2011, 02:23 AM   #100
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

Just finished reading this a few moments ago. With respect to David Mack, this may be my favorite of the Typhon Pact books so far. I'm biased, of course, being a Sisko fan (and a Niner).







I probably would have read this in one setting, but I prefer to only read one Trek book a week, and so I stopped myself last week from finishing this. Fortunately DRGIII put a nice, convienent Part 2 divider in there. I never had to force myself to read...in fact, it constantly tempted me every time I saw it, and once I started I didn't particularly want to stop. The only other book I've read by this author has been Provenance of Shadows, which I also enjoyed, but not as much as this. I'll have to add him to my ever-lengthening list of Trek authors whose upcoming releases I wait for.
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Old January 3 2011, 02:44 AM   #101
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

And if you'll avoid generalizing about what "many of the fans" don't like, I'll avoid generalizing about what they do. While I've read criticism of the Sisko story in Rough Beasts, I've also received plenty of plaudits. I even heard from one reader who loved the Sisko story and hated the Spock story.QUOTE]

Fair enough on the generalizing, but like you I can only draw on the the comments , of those who post, not just on this forum but others , as well as those i talked to personally.. Their are those who liked the sisko part and hated the spock, then their are those hated both parts as well as those who loved both parts.. However for the most part i have seen negative on the sisko( but again thats just the people I talked too). Thats cool i dont have to love every part to like the writers over all story( trust me peter david last few NF have me ready to drop the whole series). I just think and maybe this is just me. It could have been handled better, the way you had sisko go about it just seemed colded hearted .. and the whole doing for their own good seemed very thin, heck i would almost rather you had killed kasidy off, sent Jae off to stay with jake..at least then sisko choice would make more sense..This way it just feels like how joe Q reconn the spiderman marriage and when he got flak for it he actted liked we just did,nt understand his genius and time would prove him right.. I hope you do right the next one, I think you opened up a whole new emotion front to explore. S/N why a galaxy class?
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Old January 3 2011, 03:50 AM   #102
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

I haven't actually read the book yet, but based on what I've read in this thread, and what I know about the DS9 storyline,
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Old January 3 2011, 04:49 AM   #103
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

David R. George III wrote: View Post
I guess I'm not seeing the difference here, but I'll defer to you.

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On an unrelated note:
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Old January 3 2011, 05:02 AM   #104
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread


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Old January 3 2011, 07:39 AM   #105
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

Two thumbs WAY up. I loved the book Mr George.
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