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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate Rough Beasts Of Empire
Outstanding 36 25.53%
Above Average 58 41.13%
Average 25 17.73%
Below Average 13 9.22%
Poor 9 6.38%
Voters: 141. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 2 2011, 12:58 AM   #76
kkozoriz1
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

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Old January 2 2011, 01:07 AM   #77
David R. George III
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

kaysea wrote: View Post

...good work on the book. I had fun guessing who was actually doing the plotting.
Thanks for the kind words. Glad to hear you enjoyed the novel.


rfmcdpei wrote: View Post

My take?



rfmcdpei wrote: View Post


ProtoAvatar wrote: View Post

About Sisko (and, without exception, all the other DS9 characters presented in the Typhon Pact books that had more than 2-3 lines) - their characterisation has been unsatisfactory; too abrupt, too rushed.


ProtoAvatar wrote: View Post

A while ago, on these forums it was discussed whether the 5 year jump for the DS9 Relaunch was a good ideea or not.
For me, the books so far settled the matter:
-the characters' development suffered, it's not organic, but eclectic, the characters seem all over the place; also, they have become too spread out;
-plot threads that were anticipated/developed extensively were dropped - ex, the Ascendants; it's obvious it was decided to abandon previously prepared plot-lines;
-at this point, if the DS9 Relaunch is to continue, it will have little in common - beyond the setting - with what came before.
I don't necessarily disagree with all of what you write here, but I honestly did the best I could with what I was given. Make no mistake: I love the continuing Deep Space Nine saga, as well as its characters, and I strive to make strong contributions when I have an opportunity to do so.

rfmcdpei wrote: View Post
ProtoAvatar wrote: View Post
About the romulans - their home planet is due to be pulverised in a few years. They'll need all the internal stability they can get to get through that.
Between that [their home planet is due to be pulverised in a few years] and the Empire's integration with the Typhon Pact, it looks like the Romulans are going to be pushed into much greater interactions with the surrounding civilizations at a person-to-person level. This could be interesting: will viinerine be as common as raktajino?
I believe that it can and will be interesting to follow developments of the Typhon Pact nations in general, and of the Romulans in particular.

rfmcdpei wrote: View Post

I agree in certain respects--the five-year gap is a bit much--but what led to the stagnation of the relaunch in the first place?
It's actually a four-year gap. While I would hesitate to say that the ongoing Deep Space Nine story has stagnated, I can say that quite a number of circumstances have contributed to its current state. In some regards, it doesn't really matter what happened, though; what matters is what will happen going forward. I have a feeling that there may be at least a couple of more DSN books before it's all said and done.

flemm wrote: View Post

It was eventually decided to bring the DS9-R up to speed with the rest of the post-Destiny narrative. That is what is happening in the Typhon Pact titles, albeit in a rather uninspired manner imo.
Yeah, kinda. I mean, Rough Beasts of Empire is not, and was never designed to be, a Deep Space Nine novel. Clearly, it is in part a Ben Sisko story. Uninspiring? Sorry to hear you feel that way, though I certainly felt inspired while writing.

flemm wrote: View Post

One the one hand, yeah, some of these choices, especially the ones in RBoE, don't feel very promising as far as future DS9 stories are concerned.
I'm uncertain just what you mean here. Are you talking about the four-year gap between The Soul Key and Rough Beasts, or about specific character developments in my novel? If the latter, then I can tell you unequivocally that my choices in RBoE do not spell doom for the ongoing DSN saga.

flemm wrote: View Post

On the other hand, the pieces are still there on the table for a future writer to pick up and put back together. It's a bit tricky because the DS9 crew can't be easily plugged into a standard Trek narrative the way the crews of TNG, Voyager, Titan and others can. So, we'll see.
Really, this has always been the case, ever since the final episode of the television series. After "What You Leave Behind," Ben Sisko was no longer on the station, or even on Bajor, but off in the Celestial Temple with the Prophets; Miles O'Brien and his family returned to Earth; Worf departed DS9 to accept the Federation ambassadorship to Qo'noS; Odo left to join the Dominion; Garak stayed on Cardassia; Winn, Dukat, and the (supposedly) last Weyoun perished. When the Deep Space Nine saga continued in the books, its characters were scattered all over the galaxy, if they were even still alive. In that regard, the continuing narrative has always posed challenges not entirely present in the other Trek literary lines.

I think the real issue here is that new installments of the ongoing DSN tale were published relatively regularly for a few years, and now that's no longer the case. Also, I know that some readers anticipated both Zero Sum Game and Rough Beasts of Empire as Deep Space Nine novels, but neither were developed for that to be the case.

As well, because of the four-year jump ahead in the narrative, it might appear that some of the plot threads--the exodus of the Founders, the approach of the zealous Ascendants--have been dropped without satisfactory resolution. Now, I'm not in charge of these things, so I can't promise anything, but I do firmly believe that there will be more DSN books, and that at least some of the dangling plot threads could get resolved.

flemm wrote: View Post

The DS9-R as an on-going story of its own is dead, but I do think that at some point an author will come up with a compelling story for these characters, at which time hopefully we will get a couple of DS9 novels in relatively quick succession.
Perhaps as you define it, but I genuinely do not think that the ongoing DSN story is dead.

starri wrote: View Post

David...even though I didn't love the book, I think you...and all our other wonderful authors deserve a lot of credit for being so great about answering criticism. And even when I don't love every plot twist and all of that, I certainly know how much you all love ST, and how glad I am that we've got a whole stable of authors who are willing to undertake all this as a labor of love.

I figured it was the least I could say after my Negative Nancy comments
Thanks, but you shouldn't feel badly at all for not liking a book. This is all subjective. For what it's worth, I knew that parts of my novel would be a hard sell. I was good with that; I like a challenge. I certainly want every reader to love my work, but I also understand that such a desire is unrealistic in the extreme. Thanks, though, for recognizing that I do love Star Trek, and that I absolutely strive hard to write good novels that are worthy of the line.

Whew. More later.
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Old January 2 2011, 01:27 AM   #78
flemm
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

David R. George III wrote: View Post
Really, this has always been the case, ever since the final episode of the television series.
Agreed, certainly, on this point. The DS9 novels have always required a different approach. It's also true that we are probably subjecting the DS9 aspect of RBoE to a disproportionate amount of scrutiny given that the focus is largely on the Spock and Romulan Empire plot thread. There was a certain amount of editorial box-checking going on here (now we know where most, if not all of the DS9 characters are in the current timeline) and that's fine. Obviously, it was a necessary part of bringing the DS9-R up to speed with everything else.

That being said, the Sisko storyline strikes me as very poorly conceived for reasons I described above. It could probably be salvaged in a subsequent novel, and I certainly hope it will be.

Last edited by flemm; January 2 2011 at 01:43 AM.
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Old January 2 2011, 01:45 AM   #79
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread


Last edited by rfmcdpei; January 2 2011 at 01:45 AM. Reason: typo
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Old January 2 2011, 01:54 AM   #80
flemm
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread


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Old January 2 2011, 01:54 AM   #81
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Old January 2 2011, 01:57 AM   #82
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread


Last edited by rfmcdpei; January 2 2011 at 01:57 AM. Reason: typo
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Old January 2 2011, 02:00 AM   #83
flemm
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread


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Old January 2 2011, 02:06 AM   #84
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Old January 2 2011, 04:19 AM   #85
flemm
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

In passing, what is the etiquette for the spoiler tags now that the book is in stores? Do we get to stop using them at some point? Once they proliferate to this extent it starts to get a bit distracting
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Old January 2 2011, 05:10 AM   #86
kkozoriz1
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

DRGIII has requested spoiler tags be used, at least for a while. The book may be in stores but it's still new.
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Old January 2 2011, 05:15 AM   #87
flemm
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

kkozoriz1 wrote: View Post
DRGIII has requested spoiler tags be used, at least for a while. The book may be in stores but it's still new.
Thanks, fair enough.
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Old January 2 2011, 11:15 AM   #88
David R. George III
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

flemm wrote: View Post

As far as the DS9 threads are concerned, part of the problem is that these characters have been stuck in "set-up mode" for a long time now, really since Unity.


flemm wrote: View Post

There were a bunch of novels that contained basically set-up material for the Ascendant Arc, which then never actually happened, and now the Typhon Pact contains a few elements of what is basically set-up material for whatever comes next. Overall, I get the feeling that no one really has any idea how the original relaunch was supposed to unfold, nor any idea what (if anything) is on the horizon for these characters, so the constant refrain that "something is about to happen" and "the sorrow is looming" and so on starts to be irritating rather than exciting.


flemm wrote: View Post



flemm wrote: View Post



flemm wrote: View Post



flemm wrote: View Post



flemm wrote: View Post



flemm wrote: View Post



toughlittleship wrote: View Post

Having finished the novel, I'm not sure I like how the DS9 characters are scattered across several locations. Sure, we still have Bashir, Ro, Nog, Quark and Prynn aboard DS9 and I suppose Kira's being on Bajor doesn't rule out her appearing, but it seems odd to take Sisko out of Bajor.
As I pointed out in another post, this has been the case since the final episode of the television series. After "What You Leave Behind," Ben Sisko was no longer on the station, or even on Bajor, but off in the Celestial Temple with the Prophets; Miles O'Brien and his family returned to Earth; Worf departed DS9 to accept the Federation ambassadorship to Qo'noS; Odo left to join the Dominion; Garak stayed on Cardassia; Winn, Dukat, and the (supposedly) last Weyoun perished. When the Deep Space Nine saga continued in the books, its characters were scattered all over the galaxy, if they were even still alive.

crotig wrote: View Post

I too found the Sisko storyline a little out of kilter with the character I know. Not a criticism as such just not what I had expected.
My feeling is that Sisko has been dealt several crushing blows, which knocked him off-kilter. And I also like to do the unexpected.

crotig wrote: View Post

The refrences to events occuring during the DS9 gap were a little frustrating especially with the cameo of a certain individual when Sisko was talking to Kira. This is a story that needs to be told after all the build up in the previous books. Also I too would like to know what became of Odo, Lars, and the Dominion.


rfmcdpei wrote: View Post



rfmcdpei wrote: View Post

Well put.

rfmcdpei wrote: View Post



rfmcdpei wrote: View Post

It's all fun and games in Romulan-ville!

DS9forever wrote: View Post

I really liked the novel and it is the best I've read in quite some time.
I'm delighted to hear that you enjoyed the novel so much. Thanks for saying so.

kkozoriz1 wrote: View Post



If you guys can slow down a bit, maybe I can eventually catch up to the rest of the thread.
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Old January 2 2011, 11:36 AM   #89
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

The story simply doesn't play like that, as someone else points out, we are presented with the unfortunate juxtaposition of
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Old January 2 2011, 03:19 PM   #90
Truth
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

His logic seem to be im doing it for my family, they will be better off with out me..Hmmm does,nt every dead beat dad think that way, as a means to feel like what they did was the right thing.. I,m sorry i know you wanted to tell a engaging story , and for the most part you did..but lets be honest i can never see any of treks major captains making this choice. On this i think many of the fans have spoken a while they have high praise for the spock side.. they are gravely disappointed in how sisko was handled.. .
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