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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate Rough Beasts Of Empire
Outstanding 36 25.53%
Above Average 58 41.13%
Average 25 17.73%
Below Average 13 9.22%
Poor 9 6.38%
Voters: 141. You may not vote on this poll

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Old December 27 2010, 05:38 AM   #31
KingstonTrekker
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

Thanks David --- and for the record, I do have a high regard for your work

My one major constructive (I hope) criticism of RBOE pertains to my perspective that the Sisko arc never really came together. I think that this might very well have been rectified if you could have expanded the novel's elements about his experiences during the Federation-Tzenkethi War. This would have more directly linked his past experiences with the Tzenkethi to the current political context and his adventures as captain of the Robinson.

Also for the record...I loved DS9 but have not been a fan of the past few books in the Relaunch. Although I was hoping for more from your Sisko story, I felt it was the best DS9-R tale in a very, very, long time. It was great to see him commanding not one but two Federation starships --- and to see him finally starting to settle in as captain of the Robinson at the end of the book. In fact, I hope that you are the author who gets to continue Sisko's tale in future books.
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Old December 27 2010, 05:41 AM   #32
TerraUnam
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

David:



I'm happy to see that you think the same way I do. I just think that there has to be something said for two centuries spent on weaving ties of politics, culture and even family within the Federation.

Sure Romulans are genetic relations but it's the Humans who live next door and then there's that Betazoid daughter-in-law....

It just seems there's so much to be said there. So if you as a writer find it interesting, please run with it. Look at Tuvok's family. You're not asking the Lit universe to do something that's not already there to be shaped.

Second, on the Cardassians, when I said all eyes are on them now and you said I might be surprised; please surprise me.
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Old December 27 2010, 05:47 AM   #33
KingstonTrekker
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

TerraUnam wrote: View Post

I'm happy to see that you think the same way I do. I just think that there has to be something said for two centuries spent on weaving ties of politics, culture and even family within the Federation.

Sure Romulans are genetic relations but it's the Humans who live next door
I agree 100%. I have always found Spock's tireless efforts toward Reunification to be strange. I remember thinking this when I watched Unification when it first aired.
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Old December 28 2010, 06:19 AM   #34
TerraUnam
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

Plus there is the cumulative impact of Human/Vulcan interaction. It was the Vulcans who were the other party in Earth's First Contact and they played a leading role in the 98-year period from 2063 to 2161 when Earth, with Vulcan's help:
  • picked up the ashes after WWIII
  • achieved global unity,
  • became a spacefaring species
  • launched extra-solar colonies
  • fought humanity's first interstellar war, and
  • gave up a good deal of sovereignty to embrace collective interstellar and inter-species unity by forming the Federation.
And then there were all the things the Federation went through together. All in the past 300 years.

This against a millenia-old genetic tie and interstellar migration that passed into faint memory and near-legend by the 2100's (Earth calendar) plus the fact that Spock sees Romulans as "Fallen Vulcans" who need to be brought to Surak.

Sometimes I think it's Spock who needs the attitude adjustment, not the Romulans.
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Old December 28 2010, 10:22 AM   #35
David R. George III
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

KingstonTrekker wrote: View Post

I have always found Spock's tireless efforts toward Reunification to be strange.
As I read this statement, I thought you were going to say that you always found Spock's tireless efforts toward reunification to be tiresome. Would have been a good line.
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Old December 28 2010, 10:34 PM   #36
Ronald Held
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

So far, this seems like two books that really are not that strongly coupled together. Couldit have been written as two stories in a book?
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Old December 29 2010, 03:00 AM   #37
starri
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

I really hate to be negative about the books, because I know all of the authors work really hard on them, and don't really deserve to be heckled on a website.

That said...

The resolution of the Sisko subplot actually made me angry.



I don't want to go all Comic Book Guy here, but it really seemed like an utter betrayal of the character.

I guess I might just be overreacting to a plot development that I didn't like, but at the same, I wasn't exactly crazy about what's become of Kira, but I can at least see that being a fairly logical progression for her.
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Old December 29 2010, 03:55 AM   #38
David R. George III
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

starri wrote: View Post

The resolution of the Sisko subplot actually made me angry.
Well, I'm certainly sorry to hear that. The thing is, I truly feel that the way you characterized the story was not really accurate.

starri wrote: View Post



starri wrote: View Post



starri wrote: View Post



starri wrote: View Post

I guess I might just be overreacting to a plot development that I didn't like, but at the same, I wasn't exactly crazy about what's become of Kira, but I can at least see that being a fairly logical progression for her.
I wouldn't suggest that you are overreacting; whether or not you like a story is a subjective matter, and there's nothing wrong with you not liking--or even hating--my novel. At the same time, I really feel that your impressions of the events in the story are not entirely accurate.

I will also say this. On the whole, I love the Deep Space Nine characters, Sisko among them. I would never want to write anything that undermined the essence of any of those characters, and certainly not Ben. At the same time, I do understand that the direction in which I took Sisko's tale might challenge some readers. I'm good with that; I like to challenge myself, and to bring the unexpected to my work. It's my job to sell that to the readers, and I'm sorry I didn't manage to do that with you. I'm hopeful that I will have better fortunes with others.
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Old December 29 2010, 04:40 AM   #39
JD
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

Hmm, everything I read there has really piqued my interest in this book.
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Old December 30 2010, 03:15 AM   #40
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

TerraUnam wrote: View Post
This against a millenia-old genetic tie and interstellar migration that passed into faint memory and near-legend by the 2100's (Earth calendar) plus the fact that Spock sees Romulans as "Fallen Vulcans" who need to be brought to Surak.

Sometimes I think it's Spock who needs the attitude adjustment, not the Romulans.
If we're going by numbers, it's the Romulans who probably represent the dominant cultural trend in the Vulcan species. While Vulcan recovered from its near-terminal wars and fortified itself in its small corner of space against neighbours like the Andorians, Vulcan's offshoot colony on Romulus spent its two thousand years of independence creating a vast interstellar community. If said it elsewhere, but even leaving aside possible offshoots like the Rigellians aside, Surak's ethics are still big only among a minority of Vulcans. Trying to make converts to Surak's philosophy among Romulans who are culturally predisposed to a certain xenophobia and skepticism among Vulcann isn't a bad idea, but trying to make Romulans buy into the very historically contingent experiences of their planet-bound kin ... ?

Kamenor might be more right in saying that a certain amount of cross-pollination is all that can be hoped for, although I think you still need a movement for that kind of cultural embassage.

Why is Spock so big into the idea of Romulan-Vulcan unification? There are suggestions, from Taking Wing, that the idea is fairly popular on Vulcan if not among the Romulans. Maybe Vulcans see it as their way of completing their civilization's recovery, of tidying things up.
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Old December 30 2010, 03:29 AM   #41
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

David R. George III wrote: View Post
I will also say this. On the whole, I love the Deep Space Nine characters, Sisko among them. I would never want to write anything that undermined the essence of any of those characters, and certainly not Ben. At the same time, I do understand that the direction in which I took Sisko's tale might challenge some readers. I'm good with that; I like to challenge myself, and to bring the unexpected to my work. It's my job to sell that to the readers, and I'm sorry I didn't manage to do that with you. I'm hopeful that I will have better fortunes with others.
The Sisko segment reminded me of Season 6 Buffy, actually.

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Old December 30 2010, 05:59 AM   #42
TerraUnam
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

Articles of the Federation had it down to his failures in the Khitomer Conference and the death of Chancellor Gorkon.

Other than that it's never been really explained other than in "Unification" as his bit to bring more Vulcans/Romulans to Surak.
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Old December 30 2010, 06:12 AM   #43
kaysea
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

I just finished reading it and I give it a 4.5/5. It was a good fucking read. It was nicely paced, entertaining and I kept on wanting to read more. I even had some HOLY SHIT! just like that huh? moments ... with the deaths and all,which is a good thing.

The only problem I had with it was the whole Sisko thing. I never read anything post DS9 series specifically regarding him until now and I must say I'm not entirely digging the whole sullen moping thing he has been portraying throughout the novel. It just seems so unlike Captain Sisko. Anyways keep up the good work David R George III I will read more of your books.

To the guy wanting to know what the Tzenethi are here's an excerpt;

Excerpt deleted

Oh and the Tzenkethi have unrestricted "castes" for their peoples which is determined by genetics ... and they fly around in tear droped ships

Last edited by Rosalind; December 30 2010 at 01:23 PM. Reason: excerpt deleted by request of author
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Old December 30 2010, 01:26 PM   #44
Rosalind
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

^ Sorry kaysea, I know you're trying to do a nice thing for your fellow posters, but David has requested that the passage be deleted (considering the book only just start to appear in the shops).
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Old December 30 2010, 03:59 PM   #45
Clem1029
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

I finished the book yesterday, and I've been stewing on my reaction since then. In a vacuum, it's definitely a good read, but it comes off as a bit...frustrating with some of it's contributions to many ongoing narratives.











Anywho, enough of my rambling - RBoE is a good read in a vacuum, a frustrating read for the ongoing story threads, but mostly comes off as repositioning and setup for whatever comes "next."
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