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Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

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Old December 20 2010, 07:45 AM   #46
C_Miller
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Re: Anyone here a fan of Firefly?

Kegg wrote: View Post
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I feel like Firefly is the Arrested Development of Sci Fi. Everyone who watched it loved it, yet not many people watched it.
You know I honestly feel like neither statement there is true.

The second one really depends how you define 'not many people'. Firefly was a series being talked up a lot on these forums before it was even aired; although I was not a Whedon fan I was cajoled into checking out the pilot episode for his new space opera yarn. Whedon was already pretty popular with a lot of Star Trek fans I knew for Buffy and Angel, and the creator of these pieces running off to do a space opera had already sent them into apoplexy. Like The Dark Knight much later, this is the sort of thing where you can actually partially trace the positive fan buzz to well before the title was even released. I even remember a couple of the arguments - notably, for the episode "Our Mrs. Reynolds", some people were down right furious about Book Shepherd's joke that deadpannedly connects people who talk in movie theatres with more serious crimes. The series has recieved continuous attention on these forums ever since and can easily be considered one of the most discussed non-Star Trek space opera titles on these forums.

But let's remove ourselves from the little bubble of space opera fandom for a moment. Is Firefly still so neglected? In general geekdom it's been my experience that more people have seen Firefly then, say, Babylon 5 or Farscape... and often it'll get more recogniton with a geek crowd even then Ron Moore's Battlestar Galactica.

The series may have never been some big mainstream hit on the order of Lost, but Firefly is far, far from being one of those perennial unheard and unseen series.

And universally loved, well, I can again look at these boards, which back in the day had plenty of acrimony between Firefly fans and anti-fans, before the show as even cancelled... and all over again when the movie came out. And battled ceaselessly ever since. I dropped the series on its first run after "Our Mrs. Reynolds", subsequently checked the show out on DVD and reluctantly conceded that despite my biases and talking points, it can be considered an excellent series and one of the best space opera titles in recent years (and in general).
Woah, slow down there, Buddy. I'm just going on my experiences, which is all we can ever go on, right? When I say no one watched, it I didn't literally mean no one, but it certainly didn't get enough viewers to finish the season, which is about as low as a show can get. You say that let's step out of our bubble, and I say by all means. Let's step out of our geekdom bubble, not just our Trekbbs bubble. Outside of the typical Whedon-whores such as myself and your average geek made up of Babylon 5 fans, Star Trek fans, Farscape fans and others, it generally went unnoticed in the general public. Which got it canceled. And still the only real people still campaigning for a revival are browncoats (sadly not as strong as Trekkies in the 70s).

And when I say everyone who watched it loved it, I am again going off of my experiences. I have given the series to so many people since it came out on DVD. And every single person who I have given the show to has loved it (every single one). The only other show I've had that experience with is Arrested Development. Now, I may have sounded like I was speaking in absolute fact, but I wasn't and I don't think I post warranted an essay telling me I was wrong based on semantics.
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Old December 20 2010, 10:38 AM   #47
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Re: Anyone here a fan of Firefly?

My least favourite of all Joss' shows (1. Buffy, 2. Angel, 3. Dollhouse, 4. Firefly) although still very much worth a look
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Old December 20 2010, 11:33 AM   #48
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Re: Anyone here a fan of Firefly?

C_Miller wrote: View Post
Outside of the typical Whedon-whores such as myself and your average geek made up of Babylon 5 fans, Star Trek fans, Farscape fans and others, it generally went unnoticed in the general public. Which got it canceled.
Choice of words can be important here. Firefly went less unnoticed then it did unliked, as in declining viewer share and all that jazz. We're talking about a series that had a fairly high profile release on Fox and had a reasonable ad campaign for it. But 'the general public' never really copped to the program for no doubt a multitude of interesting reasons, and hence, cancellation.

And frankly after seeing the first three episodes in airing order, as I did at the time they aired - can't blame for those folks at all.
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Old December 20 2010, 11:35 AM   #49
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Re: Anyone here a fan of Firefly?

My favourite Whedon show. All the others took time to find their footing, but this show was spot on right from the outset.

I think history will possibly tell that this was Whedon's creative peak in television, which is a great shame because it's the only one of his shows that wasn't given a fair shake by the network it was on. Not that it would have necessarily blown up into something huge, but it really has a lot of quality that might have helped it pick up some steam over a year or 2.
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Old December 20 2010, 11:53 AM   #50
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Re: Anyone here a fan of Firefly?

I'm a huge Firefly fan but I will admit that it wasn't until Mrs Reynolds that the show clicked for me. I think Joss said it had higher ratings than Buffy did during her first season but presumably sci fi shows require bigger budgets so they expect more.

It took me far less time to warm to the characters than it did on TNG (although River was a bit too slow to develop I understand that her development was intended to be a running theme) and the stories were of much higher quality. The movie is one of my top ten sci fi movies.

I think the show could have picked up enough momentum to be great. I would have loved another 13 episodes to round out his season two plans but as it is I think it stands up pretty well.
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Old December 20 2010, 12:09 PM   #51
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Re: Anyone here a fan of Firefly?

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
I'm a huge Firefly fan but I will admit that it wasn't until Mrs Reynolds that the show clicked for me.
I had trouble at the start as well, but that was because they didn't show the pilot I think. When you watch it on DVD from the start it all makes much more sense a lot more quickly.
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Old December 20 2010, 12:35 PM   #52
Kegg
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Re: Anyone here a fan of Firefly?

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
I'm a huge Firefly fan but I will admit that it wasn't until Mrs Reynolds that the show clicked for me. I think Joss said it had higher ratings than Buffy did during her first season but presumably sci fi shows require bigger budgets so they expect more.
This is likely it. And Firefly was, if memory serves, more expensive then sci-fi shows like, say, Stargate: Atlantis. This wasn't the kind of show that could subsis for years on a shoestring budget and a loyal cult audience as Babylon 5 did.


Venison wrote: View Post
Pauln6 wrote: View Post
I'm a huge Firefly fan but I will admit that it wasn't until Mrs Reynolds that the show clicked for me.
I had trouble at the start as well, but that was because they didn't show the pilot I think. When you watch it on DVD from the start it all makes much more sense a lot more quickly.
Indeed. "The Train Job" was lousy as a pilot and a decidedly middle of the road episode; I found "Serenity" (the episode, not the movie) a far more engrossing introduction.
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Old December 20 2010, 01:14 PM   #53
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Re: Anyone here a fan of Firefly?

Big fan of Firefly here. I wouldn't call myself a Browncoat, but I really enjoyed the show, as with most of Whedon's production. As others have said, it took me a couple of episodes to warm up to it, but then I was hooked. Fantastic cast, funny and natural dialogues, and an interesting premise. I would advice anyone to watch it, and see if it's in tune with their tastes. Given the short span, it's well worth the investment.

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
In the end, I take myself, the world, and my preferred kind of sci-fi just way too seriously.
Well, at least you are aware of that.

Myasishchev wrote: View Post
Well, after Serenity, there's not much argument that the Alliance isn't evil. I mean, they wiped out a planet (by accident, granted) and then covered it up. That's pretty evil.

And prior to that, they were still portrayed as being pretty heavily into human experimentation at least as bad as MK-ULTRA.
Given that standard, you have to accept that virtually every country on Earth is as evil as the Alliance, if not worse. That said, the Alliance government fucked up pretty bad on Miranda, and it deserved to be exposed to the public for its own misdeeds, but for the rest of the show I agree it wasn't intended to be evil or tyrannical, just conformist, well-ordered, and somewhat dull, at the expenses of individualism and some instances of self-determination. Which, depending on your political position, could be classified as "bad", but certainly not "evil".
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Old December 20 2010, 01:58 PM   #54
Forbin
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Re: Anyone here a fan of Firefly?

Kegg wrote: View Post
Mm. It was moments like that and "Our Mrs. Richards" hat caused me to drop it originally. Whedon can get a little too smug for my liking.
"Our Mrs. Reynolds."
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Old December 20 2010, 02:04 PM   #55
Forbin
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Re: Anyone here a fan of Firefly?

In the end, I guess, it's that Joss tried something new, unexpected and unconventional. a lot of people liked it, some people didn't get it. The network was obviously in the latter group.

Didn't a Fox exec admit, after the fact, that it was a mistake to cancel firefly?
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Old December 20 2010, 02:36 PM   #56
Deckerd
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Re: Anyone here a fan of Firefly?

Jolly Ole Saint RoJo wrote: View Post
Kegg wrote: View Post
Venison wrote: View Post
No, nobody here is a fan of Firefly.

Sorry.
Indeed. I had to google it to even see what you were talking about. Seems the show was cancelled midway through its first season, which can't bode well for its quality.

Still, I appreciate it when people bring up and discuss more obscure sci-fi titles which have not been hashed to death on these forums, so I'd be interested to see your reacton to it.
Is this a real post?
Did you really ask that?
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Old December 20 2010, 03:03 PM   #57
Kegg
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Re: Anyone here a fan of Firefly?

Forbin wrote: View Post
In the end, I guess, it's that Joss tried something new, unexpected and unconventional.
Because nobody's combined space opera and westerns before. Heck, I've seen people argue that space opera is just a natural outgrowth of the western genre (I'd never go that far, mind.)

Firefly was a Joss Whedon genre mashup, I enjoyed it for what it was but it was neither new per se nor (given we're talking Whedon here) unexpected.
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Old December 20 2010, 03:20 PM   #58
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Re: Anyone here a fan of Firefly?

Kegg wrote: View Post
Because nobody's combined space opera and westerns before. Heck, I've seen people argue that space opera is just a natural outgrowth of the western genre (I'd never go that far, mind.)

Firefly was a Joss Whedon genre mashup, I enjoyed it for what it was but it was neither new per se nor (given we're talking Whedon here) unexpected.
It's essentially another "rag-tag bunch of misfits on a spaceship" series, following in the footsteps of Blake's 7. The western trappings give it its own flavour, but I didn't find it radically different from the other sci-fi shows I've seen, well executed though it mostly was.
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Old December 20 2010, 03:33 PM   #59
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Re: Anyone here a fan of Firefly?

Jolly Ole Saint RoJo wrote: View Post
I really hope so.
Every post in this thread is. Sarcasm meter: set to "ON".

I liked it well enough, but I think it might be the most overrated series of all time. It's a competition between this and BSG, but at least BSG has multiple seasons going for it. Hell, it has a full season going for it. Firefly never had the chance to descend into shit as so many other shows do.
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Old December 20 2010, 03:48 PM   #60
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Re: Anyone here a fan of Firefly?

Kegg wrote: View Post
Pauln6 wrote: View Post
I'm a huge Firefly fan but I will admit that it wasn't until Mrs Reynolds that the show clicked for me. I think Joss said it had higher ratings than Buffy did during her first season but presumably sci fi shows require bigger budgets so they expect more.
This is likely it.
The Fox network itself expects a hell of a lot more viewers than the WB/UPN/Whatever the hell "networks" were showing Buffy/Angel for all those years in the US. The expense of a show like Firefly definitely piles up on the equation, but even a cheap show that got the ratings Firefly did would have been cancelled. It was the 98th most watched show of the season.
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