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Old December 8 2010, 06:03 AM   #616
Silvercrest
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Re: AMC's The Walking Dead Season 1 Discussion & Spoilers

JacksonArcher wrote: View Post
PsychoPere wrote: View Post
This piece of news makes me go :
[...] reps from Charlie Sheen have confirmed that the actor will cameo as a zombie next season.
This is amazing on so many levels.
Yeah, he won't even require makeup or anything.
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Old December 8 2010, 08:36 AM   #617
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Re: AMC's The Walking Dead Season 1 Discussion & Spoilers

Corran Horn wrote: View Post
I think World War Z plays up the scenario that the US lacked the political will to do anything in terms of a measured, reasoned military response because they were in full-on 'deny' mode well into the zombie crisis.
The chapter covering the Battle of Yonkers is definitely worth checking out. It's a very plausible scenario on how the military could FUBAR the whole thing up.
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Old December 8 2010, 03:27 PM   #618
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Re: AMC's The Walking Dead Season 1 Discussion & Spoilers

Caliburn24 wrote: View Post
Due to the families in the show being largely intact, it seems a reasonable assumption to assume that whatever causes "zombie-ism" is not air-born. You get scratched or bit by a walker and you turn into one, simple enough.
Every single person on the planet in the comic book is infected with the Zombie cells. I won't say virus anymore because virus is the wrong word.

You die of any cause you come back a Zombie. (unless your death involves having your brain destroyed)

Caliburn24 wrote: View Post
I served in the United States Army in Iraq, I had bad guys shoot at me, try to blow me up and mortar me all day long. There is no way a bunch of brainless shambling walkers are going to destroy any country with a modern military. It just ain't gonna happen.
Shock and awe. Plus sheer numbers on the Zombie side.

Bombs don't work. You can't attack the Zombie general because there isn't one. You can't even use chemical weapons.

The Zombie is truly an Army of One.

Throw in that a significant chunk of our armed forces are over seas plus you've all been trained to fight humans and you may have a problem.

Let's just use Atlanta as an example. Everyone in it is infected. Several million walkers. Our engineers could throw a ring of hesco barriers around the city in a day or two, topped with concertina wire with a scoped rifleman posted every quarter mile or so. Every few miles we set up a kill zone. One Bradley fighting vehicle equipped with speakers playing music to suck in the walkers. Our standard loadout in a Bradley(in the Armored Cav anyways) was 1500 rounds for the 25mm, and 2200 7.62mm for the co-ax. With the optics on the Brad every shot can be a dead on kill shot. And we can sit in place for three days or so running on just our internal fuel.

My scout platoon of six Brads and thirty soldiers could thus kill 22,200 walkers using just our vehicle combat loads. Plus another 6,300 from our personal rifle loads. All done while totally impervious to attack.
Doesn't do any good when your supply lines are mangled by Zombies. Or when you run out of ammo and gas. Or when soldiers start thinking of their families.

And sure you've got Atlanta roped off but what about all the other cities?

The Fatman wrote: View Post
I always found the idea of the zombie plague spreading too fast for a reasoned military response to be plausible. I think it's reasonable to assume that you would have at least 48 hours of confusion wherein a large portion of your population is taken down/infected.
I think it would be longer then 48 hours. If only because politicians don't want to get on TV and say, "The dead are coming back to life to eat you."

Caliburn24 wrote: View Post
Plus, almost every rural house in the USA has at least one firearm with some ammo. By conservative estimates there are over 300 million guns in the USA, call it one per person. Billions upon billions of rounds of ammunition.
I'd bet there are millions of Zombies with bullet holes on them except for the one place a bullet should be: the head.

Caliburn24 wrote: View Post
But the survivors we get in the show are a diverse group of idiot rednecks, academics, hippys, and a pair of cops? (Oh, and don't get me started on the Hispanic janitors guarding the retirement home) With what, 3-4 guns at the start, and a seemingly weak survival instinct at best? Those are the people who survive the zombie apocalypse? Hell no.
There are other survivors.

Caliburn24 wrote: View Post
The zombies couldn't get into a department store for seemingly hours, and you want me to believe that they overran the military and all those kooky militia groups out there?
Yeah. Because the military didn't understand how to effectively fight Zombies. Had they know they would have been on the roof of the Department store shooting Zombies from the top instead of being on the street level with millions of Zombies attacking them.

There comes a point where sheer numbers will overwhelm any force. Zombies don't run and hide. They don't have strategy and tactics. They don't surrender. They don't stop. They simply come at you like tsunami.

Caliburn24 wrote: View Post
I have a really tough time buying into that premise.
Then stop watching. Are we going to have to go through the whole series with you complaining?

PKerr wrote: View Post
Even if you ran out of ammo with the tank, just close the doors and drive, DUh!!!
The M-1 Abrams is a fuel hog. What do you do when you can't get fuel because the un-armored trucks get over run by Zombies?

PKerr wrote: View Post
The thing that cracks me up is every time one of the survivors runs past a dead soldier they never pick up their guns.
Oh screw that nifty M-16, M-60, AR15 just laying there, I'm sticking with my shovel, Ax, pickax, cross bow or whatever.
On this I would agree but they really didn't have time in front of the CDC to grab these things since the building blew up and no doubt attracted the attention of every Zombie for 30 miles to start heading towards the CDC.

Jax wrote: View Post
Am guessing it began as airbone infecting most of the population of America and maybe even the world. A certain % of those infected came down with a fever and died while others did not. Then of course the millions already dead would return as zombies and then overwhelm most cities and towns before any military effort could get brought together not too mention how many of the US army (not aboard) would of been killed during inital outbreak. Even then the US military could not of covered all of America and would of been spread thin...Supply lines to get ammo everywhere and supplies etc it gets worse and of course that nots counting people who just ran away from the army out of being scared.

not perfect but good enough it does need addressing in the show however.
This is actually perfect and makes the most sense. The Zombie stuff spreads through out the population like the flu. Lot's of people get sick and die and come back. Of course others dying from non-Zombie deaths come back too.

Throw in bureaucratic slowness in understanding what they are truly facing and the world collapses.

Caliburn24 wrote: View Post
A shambling mass of brainless human flesh motivated purely by instinct? I'm sorry, that threat is insignificant compared to fighting actual human beings.
Yeah but whens the last time you fought 10,000 human beings at the same time? And by that I mean you personally versus all 10,000. (I just pulled 10,000 out of the air but it could be thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions)

Caliburn24 wrote: View Post
I just want some reasonable explanation for how civilization falls with all its mighty armies and massive resources. Yet our ten or so idiots in a magical self-repairing RV survive, all while bickering and beating each up, not noticing the machine guns laying all around or even having the good sense to fort up in a remote hard walled building somewhere.

I like the show more than almost anything else on TV at the moment, but there is a reality disconnect that is jarring for a show trying to stay so grounded and realistic.
They repaired the RV. Eventually they get to "fort up" but I just know you'll complain about that.

With all that said I think in real life in order for a "zombie plague" to have a chance of overwhelming the world it would have to be like Jax said. Everyone gets infected and then a significant chunk of people get sick and die. Enough people to overwhelm any response. Even then humanity would survive in much better shape then is shown so far in the Walking Dead or other Zombie movies.

Other then that scenario we are too well versed in the ways of the Zombie. We know what to do.

Man could you imagine the two plus billion people in China and India turning into Zombies? Now that would be a survival nightmare.
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Old December 8 2010, 07:23 PM   #619
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Re: AMC's The Walking Dead Season 1 Discussion & Spoilers

I like the show, but nothing is more boring to me than people gushing over how good something is. Complaining and critiquing are much more fun and stimulating.

As to listening to me complain, its your choice to read message boards, if you expect everyone to agree with your opinion you might want to find a different venue.

As to all the Max Brooks fanboys out there pushing the, "Plausible Zombie Apocalypse" argument and citing WWZ as evidence, I'll just remind you of two things. Max has never served in the military nor have firsthand experience with it.

Government bureaucracy is slow and inflexible. An armored cavalry troop is not. When cut loose from restraints, as happens when you see one person die(trust me, saw it all the time in Iraq) all the by the book crap goes away and you get down to the lean and mean business of killing people and protecting your own. A single canister round from one of our tanks could wipe out that 10,000 zombie wave and each tank can hold several dozen of those rounds. A single radio message on our tactical net tells us that only head shots work.

And I would point out that we actually do have historical records of human wave attacks of upwards of tens of thousands of fire-arm equipped, fast moving, intelligent human soldiers, aided by indirect fires support and close air support. AND THEY GOT DESTROYED by 1940s technology. We have numerous advances in weaponry today that would make human wave attacks even less effective(claymores, integral optics, assault rifles).

But then we get the counterarguments. Zombies don't stop coming until you put a bullet in their brain. Shock and Awe won't stop them. And you'll run out of bullets and your logistical situation will be screwed before the zombies run out of bodies(as if some zombie general is in the back urging his soldiers, "C'mon men, they're low on ammo, one more push!")

1) Headshots. The entire US army now uses optics on their rifles. M68 red dot sights, EOTech holographic sights, Advanced Combat Optical Gunsights(ACOG and my personal sight). Look them up, or better yet go try one out. Headshots out to a couple hundred meters are not hard with the M4-M16 and a decent optic.

2) Who needs Shock and Awe when your opponent has no mind, and no intelligence? Don't buy into that Bush-era crap, the military is still all about killing people and breaking things. And it is the one thing we excel at(besides drinking enormous qualities of cheap booze).

3) Number of bullets. Sure in China it might be a problem. In the USA? Hell no. Aside from vast stockpiles, reloading brass is not that difficult. I have several neighbors who make their own ammunition. It might not be a common skill set today, but it sure would be about a day after a zombie outbreak.

4) Logistics. Always a problem. But the Army's 16-ton up-armored HEMT truck which I have driven across rivers, three feet of mud(I think an ocean of zombie blood would be less taxing on the truck personally) is the standard deliverer of bullets, beans and fuel. We have more than 13,000 of these trucks, and each could run over a hundred thousand zombies on the way to deliver its cargo and be perfectly fine.

But again, while this argument is fun. It is also a rabbit-trail.

In the Walking Dead the government and military fell, and I have no problem with that. If that is the premise the show is operating under, great, groovy I'm down with that.

All I would like is some throw-away line about why our disorganized, in-fighting, leaderless, ill-equipped heroes have survived where an organization ideally suited to surviving has not.

It could be something as simple as, "The anthrax vaccine all our soldiers are injected with made them susceptible to an air-born strain of zombie-ism that turned 95% of them into walkers in the first day."

A line like that from the CDC doctor could easily have been tossed out there and explain everything with no need to every mention it again.
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Old December 8 2010, 07:39 PM   #620
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Re: AMC's The Walking Dead Season 1 Discussion & Spoilers

Zombie wrote: View Post

Bombs don't work.
Why not? Do bombs somehow not damage the brains of the things they're dropped on anymore?
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Old December 8 2010, 07:47 PM   #621
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Re: AMC's The Walking Dead Season 1 Discussion & Spoilers

Caliburn24 wrote: View Post
As to listening to me complain, its your choice to read message boards, if you expect everyone to agree with your opinion you might want to find a different venue.
I don't expect everyone to agree but your whining goes beyond the show and into "how could the US military fall because that would never happen in real life".

No one wants to hear that week after week. In this show they fell. It's a TV show. It's not real life. Get over it.

As to all the Max Brooks fanboys out there pushing the, "Plausible Zombie Apocalypse" argument and citing WWZ as evidence, I'll just remind you of two things. Max has never served in the military nor have firsthand experience with it.

Government bureaucracy is slow and inflexible. An armored cavalry troop is not. When cut loose from restraints, as happens when you see one person die(trust me, saw it all the time in Iraq) all the by the book crap goes away and you get down to the lean and mean business of killing people and protecting your own. A single canister round from one of our tanks could wipe out that 10,000 zombie wave and each tank can hold several dozen of those rounds. A single radio message on our tactical net tells us that only head shots work.

And I would point out that we actually do have historical records of human wave attacks of upwards of tens of thousands of fire-arm equipped, fast moving, intelligent human soldiers, aided by indirect fires support and close air support. AND THEY GOT DESTROYED by 1940s technology. We have numerous advances in weaponry today that would make human wave attacks even less effective(claymores, integral optics, assault rifles).

But then we get the counterarguments. Zombies don't stop coming until you put a bullet in their brain. Shock and Awe won't stop them. And you'll run out of bullets and your logistical situation will be screwed before the zombies run out of bodies(as if some zombie general is in the back urging his soldiers, "C'mon men, they're low on ammo, one more push!")

1) Headshots. The entire US army now uses optics on their rifles. M68 red dot sights, EOTech holographic sights, Advanced Combat Optical Gunsights(ACOG and my personal sight). Look them up, or better yet go try one out. Headshots out to a couple hundred meters are not hard with the M4-M16 and a decent optic.

2) Who needs Shock and Awe when your opponent has no mind, and no intelligence? Don't buy into that Bush-era crap, the military is still all about killing people and breaking things. And it is the one thing we excel at(besides drinking enormous qualities of cheap booze).

3) Number of bullets. Sure in China it might be a problem. In the USA? Hell no. Aside from vast stockpiles, reloading brass is not that difficult. I have several neighbors who make their own ammunition. It might not be a common skill set today, but it sure would be about a day after a zombie outbreak.

4) Logistics. Always a problem. But the Army's 16-ton up-armored HEMT truck which I have driven across rivers, three feet of mud(I think an ocean of zombie blood would be less taxing on the truck personally) is the standard deliverer of bullets, beans and fuel. We have more than 13,000 of these trucks, and each could run over a hundred thousand zombies on the way to deliver its cargo and be perfectly fine.

But again, while this argument is fun. It is also a rabbit-trail.

In the Walking Dead the government and military fell, and I have no problem with that. If that is the premise the show is operating under, great, groovy I'm down with that.

All I would like is some throw-away line about why our disorganized, in-fighting, leaderless, ill-equipped heroes have survived where an organization ideally suited to surviving has not.

It could be something as simple as, "The anthrax vaccine all our soldiers are injected with made them susceptible to an air-born strain of zombie-ism that turned 95% of them into walkers in the first day."

A line like that from the CDC doctor could easily have been tossed out there and explain everything with no need to every mention it again.
SEE!

We going to have to read this drivel every week when the show comes back?

I hope just to spite you the show never ever discusses how the military fell.

You need to stop taking it as a personal insult that the show shows the US military failing. It's a show.
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Old December 8 2010, 07:48 PM   #622
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Re: AMC's The Walking Dead Season 1 Discussion & Spoilers

Corran Horn wrote: View Post
Zombie wrote: View Post

Bombs don't work.
Why not? Do bombs somehow not damage the brains of the things they're dropped on anymore?
Of course they do. But when you're dropping bombs what do humans do? They run and hide.

What do Zombies do? The ones not taken out by the bomb keep walking towards your front line.

I hope you have enough bombs.
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Old December 8 2010, 08:19 PM   #623
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Re: AMC's The Walking Dead Season 1 Discussion & Spoilers

Caliburn24 wrote: View Post
All I would like is some throw-away line about why our disorganized, in-fighting, leaderless, ill-equipped heroes have survived where an organization ideally suited to surviving has not.
I can sum it up in two words - Dumb Luck.

They were late to Atlanta, and being late, managed to be kept out of the city when the dead overwhelmed the living. They found a wooded area near the city, where they were lucky enough to have a pizza delivery guy with them who knew where to find shit, and he foraged for supplies.

The fact that they lost a significant number of their group in a zombie attack they should have been prepared for shows they are not masters of survival.

The only character we have met that seems to know how to survive in this world is Morgan. If Rick hadn't met him first, he'd be dead.
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Old December 8 2010, 08:20 PM   #624
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Re: AMC's The Walking Dead Season 1 Discussion & Spoilers

Zombie wrote: View Post
Corran Horn wrote: View Post
Zombie wrote: View Post

Bombs don't work.
Why not? Do bombs somehow not damage the brains of the things they're dropped on anymore?
Of course they do. But when you're dropping bombs what do humans do? They run and hide.

What do Zombies do? The ones not taken out by the bomb keep walking towards your front line.

I hope you have enough bombs.
At that point it's just a manufacturing and logistics issue.
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Old December 8 2010, 09:09 PM   #625
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Re: AMC's The Walking Dead Season 1 Discussion & Spoilers

Vendikarr wrote: View Post
Caliburn24 wrote: View Post
All I would like is some throw-away line about why our disorganized, in-fighting, leaderless, ill-equipped heroes have survived where an organization ideally suited to surviving has not.
I can sum it up in two words - Dumb Luck.

They were late to Atlanta, and being late, managed to be kept out of the city when the dead overwhelmed the living. They found a wooded area near the city, where they were lucky enough to have a pizza delivery guy with them who knew where to find shit, and he foraged for supplies.

The fact that they lost a significant number of their group in a zombie attack they should have been prepared for shows they are not masters of survival.

The only character we have met that seems to know how to survive in this world is Morgan. If Rick hadn't met him first, he'd be dead.
Dumb luck works for me, except it leaves one niggling little problem. There should be thousands of people still alive all over the place. Every little solidly built farmhouse, every little remote area, people should be holed up everywhere. But instead we have almost no one alive. It is poor writing.

As to Zombie(it almost feels like he feels he has a personal stake in the argument, I'm sorry Mr. Darabont I take it all back, zombies will be the extinction event of mankind) if my "drivel" is so painful, skip or ignore my posts, I don't mind.

I choose not to ignore shoddy writing or use that weakest of arguments, "Its just a TV Show!" I'm a horrible human being obviously. C'est la vie.
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Old December 8 2010, 09:22 PM   #626
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Re: AMC's The Walking Dead Season 1 Discussion & Spoilers

Corran Horn wrote: View Post
Zombie wrote: View Post
Corran Horn wrote: View Post

Why not? Do bombs somehow not damage the brains of the things they're dropped on anymore?
Of course they do. But when you're dropping bombs what do humans do? They run and hide.

What do Zombies do? The ones not taken out by the bomb keep walking towards your front line.

I hope you have enough bombs.
At that point it's just a manufacturing and logistics issue.
Let's just hope the military has enough people to guard all the factories and people.
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Old December 8 2010, 09:27 PM   #627
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Re: AMC's The Walking Dead Season 1 Discussion & Spoilers

Caliburn24 wrote: View Post
Dumb luck works for me, except it leaves one niggling little problem. There should be thousands of people still alive all over the place. Every little solidly built farmhouse, every little remote area, people should be holed up everywhere. But instead we have almost no one alive. It is poor writing.
Recall that the vast majority of season one took place in a very small geographic area that was not near farmhouses and remote areas. The lack of something having been shown so far that does not fit into the story told as yet does not automatically equal "poor writing." Obviously there are other survivors we have yet to meet. This was, after all, only a six-episode season. There's only so much that can be done in that timeframe, especially since the story that was told so far relates to a few specific people who have done very little traveling over the course of that season.
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Old December 8 2010, 09:32 PM   #628
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Re: AMC's The Walking Dead Season 1 Discussion & Spoilers

Ya know, this ego-validating crap about how the US military is so bad-ass that there's NO WAY a zombie-apocalypse could EVER happen is kind of like complaining "Superman" is stupid because there was never any such place as Krypton and, anyway, people can't fly.

Either you allow a certain measure of suspension of disbelief and accept the basic premise as credible or you don't, in which case you should move on and look for something that WILL entertain you.
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Old December 8 2010, 09:34 PM   #629
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Re: AMC's The Walking Dead Season 1 Discussion & Spoilers

Caliburn24 wrote: View Post
Vendikarr wrote: View Post
Caliburn24 wrote: View Post
All I would like is some throw-away line about why our disorganized, in-fighting, leaderless, ill-equipped heroes have survived where an organization ideally suited to surviving has not.
I can sum it up in two words - Dumb Luck.

They were late to Atlanta, and being late, managed to be kept out of the city when the dead overwhelmed the living. They found a wooded area near the city, where they were lucky enough to have a pizza delivery guy with them who knew where to find shit, and he foraged for supplies.

The fact that they lost a significant number of their group in a zombie attack they should have been prepared for shows they are not masters of survival.

The only character we have met that seems to know how to survive in this world is Morgan. If Rick hadn't met him first, he'd be dead.
Dumb luck works for me, except it leaves one niggling little problem. There should be thousands of people still alive all over the place. Every little solidly built farmhouse, every little remote area, people should be holed up everywhere. But instead we have almost no one alive. It is poor writing.

As to Zombie(it almost feels like he feels he has a personal stake in the argument, I'm sorry Mr. Darabont I take it all back, zombies will be the extinction event of mankind) if my "drivel" is so painful, skip or ignore my posts, I don't mind.

I choose not to ignore shoddy writing or use that weakest of arguments, "Its just a TV Show!" I'm a horrible human being obviously. C'est la vie.
You all need to give it time.

The first five episodes cover essentially the first four comics. I don't count the CDC episode since that wasn't in the comics.

They meet plenty of people in the future. They get better at handling Zombies and securing their "camps".
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Old December 8 2010, 09:37 PM   #630
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Re: AMC's The Walking Dead Season 1 Discussion & Spoilers

Of course the big question is how long can an active zombie last? Their skin and muscles are still decaying even if they still get signals from the brain stem. One would think a Zombie could not last more then a year before muscle tissue is to decayed to support movement. They can not metabolize food to built up tissues. Especially true if you are in a hotter environment where the sun and heat will speed up the decay. The logic would be if the survivers could hold up for about a year or so there would not be to many zombies left to be a threat. There may be newer recently dead zombies, but the original surge from the the first month would be gone.
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