TP: Seize the Fire by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!) - Page 4

Julio Angel Ortiz · November 28 2010, 01:59 AM

Steve Roby wrote:

Got mine from Amazon.ca a couple of days ago, but I have to finish reading Simon Forward's unpublished Doctor Who novel Equilibrium (Third Doctor and Liz Shaw) before I get to it.

(EDITED: Never mind, I found it. Thanks to your post on the Doctor Who forum.

)

And regarding Seize the Fire, still haven't gotten my physical copy! Guess I'll just grab the eBook version and move forward with just those versions on my Nook.

BXsainttj · November 28 2010, 03:19 AM

Just picked up the book from Barnes and Noble over at CitiGroup here in NYC. So far so good i have to say. Been waiting for an inside look into the Gorn Hegemony. Funny how it supposed to be released on the 30th but some stores have a limited number in stock.

JD · November 28 2010, 06:06 AM

The date given is not a set street date, it's just an approximation. I've seen books popping up as early as the first week or two of the month, even when the date is one of the last couple days of that month.

Dimesdan · November 28 2010, 12:34 PM

Man of Steel wrote:

Got mine on Fri. Wow this thing is huge. Shorter chapters then ZSG but 500 pages.

Really? ZSG has 45 chapters and is 336 pages long. StF has 31 chapters, plus a prologue and an epilogue and stands at 488 pages long. Now by my reckoning, that means ZSG has the shorter chapters.

Anyway, it came in the post yesterday, I started it last night and on page 65 and to be honest, so far, it's not great, but then again, I've only ever liked Cathedral and the first two Titan novels by Michael A. Martin (and Andy Mangels)

Man of Steel · November 28 2010, 09:59 PM

Dimesdan wrote:

Man of Steel wrote:

Got mine on Fri. Wow this thing is huge. Shorter chapters then ZSG but 500 pages.

Really? ZSG has 45 chapters and is 336 pages long. StF has 31 chapters, plus a prologue and an epilogue and stands at 488 pages long. Now by my reckoning, that means ZSG has the shorter chapters.

Anyway, it came in the post yesterday, I started it last night and on page 65 and to be honest, so far, it's not great, but then again, I've only ever liked Cathedral and the first two Titan novels by Michael A. Martin (and Andy Mangels)

You don't have to get so technical dude.

JD · November 29 2010, 02:44 AM

I pre-ordered this for my Nook today, but I won't actually be able to download it until Tuesday.

Christopher · November 29 2010, 03:32 AM

JD wrote:

I pre-ordered this for my Nook today, but I won't actually be able to download it until Tuesday.

So... you're getting it from the same place the Enterprise-B got its equpiment?

Enterprise1981 · November 29 2010, 03:58 AM

The rumor going around is that the USS Musashi has an extra copy.

Almost Unique · November 29 2010, 01:41 PM

Well, I finished it last night, and I've got mixed feelings about it. For the first hundred pages, it seemed rather slow going. I was struggling with Mr. Martin's writing style. This is the first book by Michael Martin that I've read that wasn't graced by the contribution of Mr. Mangels, and it seems to suffer from Mangels' absence. It seemed a bit clunky, a bit flat, and too dragged out. That said, the overall story was interesting, and I kept reading because I did care and want to know what was going to happen. And the last few pages makes me wish the next Titan book was coming out sooner. I voted Average on the poll. He may have overused the word cloaca.

Aranamac · November 29 2010, 11:12 PM

This feels like a book with some great ideas and potential that ends up making some very strange choices. There were many places where the writing felt very repetitive, like little things where Christine Vale is introduced to the reader as Riker's executive officer, after that's already been established in dialogue and interaction.

Basically, everything from here on out are spoilers. Should I put my whole post in spoiler code?

Other things that left me confused were the moments when major events would happen off-screen. For example,

When Tuvok mind-melds with the ecosculptor, the event happens entirely off-screen. This seems like a wasted moment, as we're denied a chance to learn more about the ecosculptor's mind and thoughts. It's an encounter that's foreshadowed early in the book, leading me to look forward to a tense, creative, and insightful dialogue between Tuvok and the ecosculptor. Instead, we're limited to Vale's perspective, arguably less dramatic and interesting.

The same thing happens when the two Gorn return to the Gorn ship with Riker to confront the Gorn captain. This is same captain who tried to execute Ssyrrix (spelling?), and whom Riker deceives during the tractor beam "malfunction". This could've been a very tense, dramatic, character-driven scene. Instead, we get more ship battle logistics with Vale.

In general, the book seems to err on the side of space battles and violent solutions when something more…*Trekkian? could've happened?

At the very end, Riker's only misgivings about the destruction of the ecosculptor are only about him being sad that they couldn't get anything useful from it…*not that a millennia-old intelligence had been destroyed at his say-so. There were no ethical qualms, just practical and tactical losses. Something about that response felt wrong.

Overall, I felt that a lot of interesting ideas were brought up with worthwhile payoffs promised (such as Tuvok's experience with terraforming in the past) that failed to deliver, resolved with excess violence, in a few perfunctory pages, or "off-screen" (whatever the printed equivalent is of that). Characterization felt off, other things felt redundant and repetitive. Troi's empathy seemed overpowered. I had none of the sense of wonder and exploration of compelling ideas and new races that all previous Titan books have had. Definitely a bit a slog to get through.

On the positive side, there were some really fascinating concepts, such as the Gorn possibly having a religion grounded in an ancient terraforming device, the world of Hranrar, Gorn castes, more of Titan's diversity, the ecosculptor itself being sentient.

Almost Unique · November 30 2010, 12:09 AM

^^I agree with virtually all of that.

RonG · November 30 2010, 07:32 AM

I'm sorry to say that I agree with most of the criticism.

I think the book had some wonderful ideas and concepts, but didn't utilize them to their fullest potential (at least IMO).

All in all, I have to say that the series so far has left me a bit underwhelmed..

JD · November 30 2010, 08:43 PM

I was able to download my copy today. Although after reading the comments here I'm not quite as excited for it as I had been.

Dimesdan · November 30 2010, 09:20 PM

JD wrote:

I was able to download my copy today. Although after reading the comments here I'm not quite as excited for it as I had been.

And I'm considering giving up on it. That would be a hat trick of books I've given up on by this author. I gave up on Last Full Measure and and Rogue aswell.

Aranamac · November 30 2010, 10:13 PM

it's odd... I've liked other books by the same author, esp the Romulan war series, and everything he cowrote with Mangels. But for whatever reason, this one didn't gel.

Another thing that's strange about the timeline of the book: the pirate Gorn had the ship for a whole year? It took a year between the solar flare and the encounter with the ecosculptor? That seems like a ridiculously long time for people suffering major radiation injuries. Did anyone catch something that I missed about that?

View Poll Results: Rate Seize The Fire.
Outstanding	4	3.81%
Above Average	22	20.95%
Average	31	29.52%
Below Average	30	28.57%
Poor	18	17.14%
Voters: 105. You may not vote on this poll

November 28 2010, 03:19 AM	#47
BXsainttj Ensign Location: BRONX, NY	Re: Typhon Pact: Seize The Fire review thread Just picked up the book from Barnes and Noble over at CitiGroup here in NYC. So far so good i have to say. Been waiting for an inside look into the Gorn Hegemony. Funny how it supposed to be released on the 30th but some stores have a limited number in stock.

November 28 2010, 06:06 AM	#48
JD Admiral Location: Arizona, USA	Re: Typhon Pact: Seize The Fire review thread The date given is not a set street date, it's just an approximation. I've seen books popping up as early as the first week or two of the month, even when the date is one of the last couple days of that month. __________________ Over the course of many encounters and many years, I have successfully developed a standard operating procedure for dealing with big, nasty monsters. Run away. Me and Monty Python. Harry Dresden - Blood Rites (The Dresden Files #6)

November 29 2010, 02:44 AM	#51
JD Admiral Location: Arizona, USA	Re: Typhon Pact: Seize The Fire review thread I pre-ordered this for my Nook today, but I won't actually be able to download it until Tuesday. __________________ Over the course of many encounters and many years, I have successfully developed a standard operating procedure for dealing with big, nasty monsters. Run away. Me and Monty Python. Harry Dresden - Blood Rites (The Dresden Files #6)

November 29 2010, 03:58 AM	#53
Enterprise1981 Rear Admiral Location: A factory in Taiwan	Re: Typhon Pact: Seize The Fire review thread The rumor going around is that the USS Musashi has an extra copy. __________________ Star Trek: War Aftermath -- "Omega" Star Trek: Lambda Paz -- "To the Bitter End" I look forward to your letters...

STAR TREK

CSI

ABOUT US

November 29 2010, 01:41 PM	#54
Almost Unique Lieutenant Location: Marquette, MI	Re: Typhon Pact: Seize The Fire review thread Well, I finished it last night, and I've got mixed feelings about it. For the first hundred pages, it seemed rather slow going. I was struggling with Mr. Martin's writing style. This is the first book by Michael Martin that I've read that wasn't graced by the contribution of Mr. Mangels, and it seems to suffer from Mangels' absence. It seemed a bit clunky, a bit flat, and too dragged out. That said, the overall story was interesting, and I kept reading because I did care and want to know what was going to happen. And the last few pages makes me wish the next Titan book was coming out sooner. I voted Average on the poll. He may have overused the word cloaca. __________________ "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." -JC

November 29 2010, 11:12 PM	#55
Aranamac Lieutenant Location: Hollywood, CA	Re: Typhon Pact: Seize The Fire review thread This feels like a book with some great ideas and potential that ends up making some very strange choices. There were many places where the writing felt very repetitive, like little things where Christine Vale is introduced to the reader as Riker's executive officer, after that's already been established in dialogue and interaction. Basically, everything from here on out are spoilers. Should I put my whole post in spoiler code? Other things that left me confused were the moments when major events would happen off-screen. For example, When Tuvok mind-melds with the ecosculptor, the event happens entirely off-screen. This seems like a wasted moment, as we're denied a chance to learn more about the ecosculptor's mind and thoughts. It's an encounter that's foreshadowed early in the book, leading me to look forward to a tense, creative, and insightful dialogue between Tuvok and the ecosculptor. Instead, we're limited to Vale's perspective, arguably less dramatic and interesting. The same thing happens when the two Gorn return to the Gorn ship with Riker to confront the Gorn captain. This is same captain who tried to execute Ssyrrix (spelling?), and whom Riker deceives during the tractor beam "malfunction". This could've been a very tense, dramatic, character-driven scene. Instead, we get more ship battle logistics with Vale. In general, the book seems to err on the side of space battles and violent solutions when something more…Trekkian? could've happened? At the very end, Riker's only misgivings about the destruction of the ecosculptor are only about him being sad that they couldn't get anything useful from it…not that a millennia-old intelligence had been destroyed at his say-so. There were no ethical qualms, just practical and tactical losses. Something about that response felt wrong. Overall, I felt that a lot of interesting ideas were brought up with worthwhile payoffs promised (such as Tuvok's experience with terraforming in the past) that failed to deliver, resolved with excess violence, in a few perfunctory pages, or "off-screen" (whatever the printed equivalent is of that). Characterization felt off, other things felt redundant and repetitive. Troi's empathy seemed overpowered. I had none of the sense of wonder and exploration of compelling ideas and new races that all previous Titan books have had. Definitely a bit a slog to get through. On the positive side, there were some really fascinating concepts, such as the Gorn possibly having a religion grounded in an ancient terraforming device, the world of Hranrar, Gorn castes, more of Titan's diversity, the ecosculptor itself being sentient. __________________ "Just a moment. Let me put on my pants." Me to the Dominican nun sitting on my bed while in the South of France.

November 30 2010, 12:09 AM	#56
Almost Unique Lieutenant Location: Marquette, MI	Re: Typhon Pact: Seize The Fire review thread ^^I agree with virtually all of that. __________________ "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." -JC

November 30 2010, 07:32 AM	#57
RonG Captain Location: Fluidic Space	Re: Typhon Pact: Seize The Fire review thread I'm sorry to say that I agree with most of the criticism. I think the book had some wonderful ideas and concepts, but didn't utilize them to their fullest potential (at least IMO). I wasn't expecting the ecosculptor to remain intact for the UFP to use, as that would undermine the current (and still new) post-Destiny status quo, but I felt that we could have used more drama and insight into the "character" of the ecosculptor (indeed, setting up a classic Trek dilemma regarding using a sentient AI as a tool). All in all, I have to say that the series so far has left me a bit underwhelmed.. __________________ RonG is Right!

November 30 2010, 08:43 PM	#58
JD Admiral Location: Arizona, USA	Re: Typhon Pact: Seize The Fire review thread I was able to download my copy today. Although after reading the comments here I'm not quite as excited for it as I had been. __________________ Over the course of many encounters and many years, I have successfully developed a standard operating procedure for dealing with big, nasty monsters. Run away. Me and Monty Python. Harry Dresden - Blood Rites (The Dresden Files #6)

November 30 2010, 10:13 PM	#60
Aranamac Lieutenant Location: Hollywood, CA	Re: Typhon Pact: Seize The Fire review thread it's odd... I've liked other books by the same author, esp the Romulan war series, and everything he cowrote with Mangels. But for whatever reason, this one didn't gel. Another thing that's strange about the timeline of the book: the pirate Gorn had the ship for a whole year? It took a year between the solar flare and the encounter with the ecosculptor? That seems like a ridiculously long time for people suffering major radiation injuries. Did anyone catch something that I missed about that? __________________ "Just a moment. Let me put on my pants." Me to the Dominican nun sitting on my bed while in the South of France.