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Old November 15 2010, 04:47 PM   #136
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Re: The Dark Knight to have a female villain?

Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
^yes and even better, apparently she gets it out in some new movie co-starring Jake Gyllenhall (back to Brokeback again).
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Old November 15 2010, 06:22 PM   #137
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Re: The Dark Knight to have a female villain?

Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
^yes and even better, apparently she gets it out in some new movie co-starring Jake Gyllenhall (back to Brokeback again).
More Batman talk, less spank bank fodder. Thanks.
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Old November 15 2010, 06:59 PM   #138
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Re: The Dark Knight to have a female villain?

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I would argue again that Talia is the way she is through conditioning and breeding along with training. Talia is meant to be nothing more than a desirable object for men since Ra's means for her to mate with a suitable candidate to be his heir. He would have much preferred a son but got Talia instead and has treated her as such. I don't get what is so hard to contemplate about her. Her entire purpose is to serve the means of her father and that is what generates the conflict between her. She is incapable of having a destiny or life of her own. Every time she has attempted to do so she's been either manipulated by Ra's or forces belonging to Ra or has come back on her own whim. This is the tragedy of Talia al Ghul.
I'm not having any trouble grasping the character - I'm saying the way her "tragedy" is written is dumb. It's a contrived tragedy which anyone as intelligent as she is said to be would easily throw off by realizing, hey, I'm a grown woman, I'm a master assassin with mad organizational skills, and I don't have to please Daddy, who's been treating me like shit all these years, and if Bruce doesn't want me, I don't need him either. The girl needs to read a copy of "He's Just Not that Into You".

I mean, you're saying the very things about her that make her an unlikeable character - she is incapable of having a destiny of her own. Why? She's supposedly an extremely intelligent, capable person. She's manipulated by Ra's (or Nyssa, or Bruce, over and over again), which indicates to me she's weak willed and stupid. Why that is considered a good villain or a fabulous love interest for someone as strong willed and smart as Bruce Wayne is unfathomable - it breaks one's suspension of disbelief. Or at least it breaks mine.

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The main reason I don't care for Ra's and Talia as villains is their plans always seem remarkably dumb - the very epitome of overly convoluted, cliche comic book villain crap complete with pompous, posturing monologues.
Which brings me back to 'Liam Neeson made it work'.

A monologue about how corrupt the world is and you've got to fix it, well, it's far too easy to go into righteous fanaticism territory. Liam Neeson makes his grandiose aims and terrorist plans seem calm and sensible, or at least is able to present himself as such. He's almost unassuming about it: This violence is how you fix things, I'm going ahead with it, probably not a good idea to get in my way, waiter get me the check. I think with the wrong casting Ra's al Ghul could have been a pretty weak villain in that movie.

I dunno. Skimming Wikipedia there's something vageuly silly about the guy. The sinister foreigner who is sinister and ancient and has an evil plan.
I heartily agree all the way around. Nolan did a very good thing by changing the basic motivation of Ra's away from eco-terrorism (lord, some of the comic book monolgues about why wiping out 9/10ths of humanity to restore the purity of the earth is a brilliant idea on his part are unbelieveably painful) to correcting the corruption of civilization. It's equally as nutty, but it makes for a tighter story as to why Gotham specifically would be targeted, and it was a fun "shadow history" bit in his speech at the end about burning London and loading trade ships with plague rats. It also put the aims of the League into a more reasonable scale - destroying one city versus 9/10ths of humanity. And I personally loved the business about decoy front men and the question - never really answered - about whether or not Ra's al Ghul was immortal.

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Lapis Exilis wrote:
For a brief period they crossed her over into Superman and she took over LexCorp and she got interesting for about half a minute -
Yeah, I generally agree, although it didn't t make a lot of sense. I mean, Osama bin Laden is/was pretty good recruiter, organizer and leader of men, but I wouldn't put him in charge of General Electric. Aside from the obvious reasons, I'm not really sure the skill set that permits one to run a global criminal-terrorist conspiracy is exactly the same skill set required to be a legitimate CEO.
Well of course it didn't make sense - what in comics does? But it was nice to see her actually have a plan of her own for once. She could be such an interesting character, if they could stop playing her as hot Fatal Attraction psycho with a Daddy complex.
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Old November 15 2010, 07:07 PM   #139
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Re: The Dark Knight to have a female villain?

The point is that I have always felt that Talia should have been in "Batman Begins" but if she does appear in "The Dark Knight Rises" that Nolans and Goyer will find a way to make her work and in an interesting way.
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Old November 15 2010, 09:07 PM   #140
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Re: The Dark Knight to have a female villain?

Timby wrote: View Post
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^yes and even better, apparently she gets it out in some new movie co-starring Jake Gyllenhall (back to Brokeback again).
More Batman talk, less spank bank fodder. Thanks.
She's on the casting shortlist and we were commenting on the Brokeback/ Batman connections (Ledger, the Gyllenhalls). Pay attention!
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Old November 15 2010, 09:25 PM   #141
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Re: The Dark Knight to have a female villain?

Whether or not a lady shows her ta-tas on screen has no relevance to casting for the next Batman film. Pay attention.
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Old November 15 2010, 09:42 PM   #142
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Re: The Dark Knight to have a female villain?

^ It has for those of us who sit through the movie wondering what her norks look like. Such as me
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Old November 15 2010, 09:43 PM   #143
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Re: The Dark Knight to have a female villain?

^ Indeed and glimpse the movie "Havoc" if you wish to see Anne's breasts.
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Old November 15 2010, 10:48 PM   #144
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Re: The Dark Knight to have a female villain?

She's topless in Brokeback Mountain too. One of the few things that impressed me about that movie (a movie I didn't particularly like) was how incredibly hot she looked in her cowgirl outfit, and then what a great job the make-up people did of making her look trashy in the movie's 80s period.
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Old November 15 2010, 10:50 PM   #145
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Re: The Dark Knight to have a female villain?

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^ Indeed and glimpse the movie "Havoc" if you wish to see Anne's breasts.
Ideally in 3-D!

(And this is my thread, so I'll hijack it as I like!)
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Old November 15 2010, 10:52 PM   #146
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Re: The Dark Knight to have a female villain?

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Whether or not a lady shows her ta-tas on screen has no relevance to casting for the next Batman film. Pay attention.
It would if the next Batman film were rated R!
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Old November 15 2010, 10:54 PM   #147
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Re: The Dark Knight to have a female villain?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eva_Green

As Talia al Ghul or Selina Kyle.

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Old November 15 2010, 10:54 PM   #148
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Re: The Dark Knight to have a female villain?

Aragorn wrote: View Post
Timby wrote: View Post
Whether or not a lady shows her ta-tas on screen has no relevance to casting for the next Batman film. Pay attention.
It would if the next Batman film were rated R!
Or if I were casting it.
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Old November 15 2010, 11:00 PM   #149
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Re: The Dark Knight to have a female villain?

Jetfire wrote: View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eva_Green

As Talia al Ghul or Selina Kyle.

Stana Katic or Sarah Shahi as Talia!

Actually, Katic is voicing Talia in the Arkham City game.
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Old November 15 2010, 11:17 PM   #150
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Re: The Dark Knight to have a female villain?

Jetfire...I stated Eva Green a couple pages ago! I think swould be fantastic . Anne Hathaway is an excellent actress who has proven over the course of her career that she is very versatile. She was one of the few bright spots in this year's "Valentine's Day" (yes I saw that movie). Gary Marshall who directed the movie and of course directed Anne in "The Princess Diaries" and it's sequel once called her the new Julia Roberts. I think she would be an interesting choice for Selena Kyle. I think she has been rumored by fans before as being the new Catwoman.
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