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Old November 11 2010, 10:04 AM   #31
the Dagman
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Re: JMS Quits Superman & Wonder Woman

I am merely stating that the new writers on Wonder Woman and Superman working from story notes was very much like the writing environment JMS had on B5. He does the big broad strokes, others do the minutiae.

Others on this thread feel the need to disprove what I know to be true. And they tried saying that Larry left the show after Season 1 to back up their assumptions. Wherever they got their facts from, it certainly wasn't directly from the source as I have. But I just sent an e-mail to my friend that now lives in Utah and asked that he scan and post his pictures from his trip. He is an elementary school teacher and has a long-time aversion to computers and even video games (since he always sucked at them), so I have no idea when he will read it and respond. He may not even have a scanner though, as the subject has never popped up in our conversations. He always seems to keep very busy and doesn't waste his time on the internet like I do. And, unfortunately, I lost touch with Larry shortly after B5 ended and don't have his current contact information. But my friend Zoran still may have it. I will have to ask him when I hear from him.
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Old November 11 2010, 02:27 PM   #32
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Re: JMS Quits Superman & Wonder Woman

Larry DiTillio visiting the set when he's not on the payroll anymore is hardly what I'd call proof of JMS committing acts of theft and plagiarism. All it proves is the man was still on friendly terms with the company and was able to visit. Not having JMS appear in any set photos isn't proof of this either, it just proves that he wasn't standing in front of that particular camera when those photos were taken.

A FAR more likely explanation for his absence on set is that he was up in his office...writing.
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Old November 11 2010, 03:15 PM   #33
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Re: JMS Quits Superman & Wonder Woman

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
I think it was a mistake giving him two of the flagship books. He should have just stuck with "Superman" since he's so passionate about Supes, and he is.
Typical JMS - he seems to enjoy piling on the work and overloading himself!
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Old November 11 2010, 03:19 PM   #34
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Re: JMS Quits Superman & Wonder Woman

the Dagman wrote: View Post
^How could Larry have provided access to the closed set in season 4 if he wasn't on the show after season 1?

ETA: BTW, Larry was in the pictures too. There were shots of him and several staff writers as well. Ironically though, JMS was not on the set that day. There were no shots of him.
Does that mean JMS did not work on the later seasons, too?

Can't have it both ways.
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Old November 11 2010, 03:23 PM   #35
the Dagman
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Re: JMS Quits Superman & Wonder Woman

^Once again for those too slow to grasp what I am saying here. Larry WAS on the payroll, which is how he got my friend onto the set. The source of wherever the info said he wasn't is in error. And I NEVER said that JMS committed any "acts of theft or plagiarism". That is all on you guys. What I said is that JMS did write the broad strokes, which were all the major story beats, which is why he got the writers' credit. But he had a whole staff of writers who worked on the scripts to flesh out the ideas he didn't. Which is a very common practice in television and film. There are often writers who go uncredited. It is nothing new. So stop trying to put words in my mouth and reading things that aren't there. And if you don't believe me, fine. Just drop it and get back on topic. Jeez, is this really THAT big of a deal for you JMS fanboys?
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Old November 11 2010, 03:29 PM   #36
Landed
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Re: JMS Quits Superman & Wonder Woman

the Dagman wrote: View Post
Others on this thread feel the need to disprove what I think to be true.
Fixed that for you.
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Old November 11 2010, 04:28 PM   #37
iguana_tonante
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Re: JMS Quits Superman & Wonder Woman

the Dagman wrote: View Post
But I just sent an e-mail to my friend that now lives in Utah and asked that he scan and post his pictures from his trip. He is an elementary school teacher and has a long-time aversion to computers and even video games (since he always sucked at them), so I have no idea when he will read it and respond. He may not even have a scanner though, as the subject has never popped up in our conversations. He always seems to keep very busy and doesn't waste his time on the internet like I do. And, unfortunately, I lost touch with Larry shortly after B5 ended and don't have his current contact information. But my friend Zoran still may have it. I will have to ask him when I hear from him.
This is so very important, to the point of justifying a flounce. Jeez.
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Old November 11 2010, 04:31 PM   #38
Lindley
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Re: JMS Quits Superman & Wonder Woman

To be fair, there were rumors that Larry DeTillio was supposed to have written a Crusade script (didn't happen since the series was aborted), so he was obviously still on good terms with the team.

However, he was not under contract following season 2. While unfortunately I cannot find the posting this is replying to in order to put it in context, here's what JMS said presumably about his departure:

1 Jun 1995 There's really not much *to* tell. Because I wrote 15 out of 22 this
season, and I held virtually all of the writers meetings, and personally
created and handed out the stories to freelancers, there wasn't a lot for
him to *do*; he spent a lot of time when he wasn't doing his scripts
more or less sitting on his hands. Larry's a world-builder, coming from
a gaming background, and this world was already built. There wasn't that
much for him to do, and his skills were being wasted. He'd never have a
chance to shine and come out from under the jms shadow to be recognized
for what he can do. (Very often, stuff in his scripts would get credited
to me, often incorrectly.) This situation would only get worse in later
seasons, with more and more arc stories, pre-determined, coming into the
foreground. So it was really for the best.

jms

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Old November 11 2010, 04:38 PM   #39
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Re: JMS Quits Superman & Wonder Woman

Anyway, after the whole New Krypton storyline, I was hoping to get back to what made Superman so great for me. I decided that the "Grounded" storyline was not for me, but I have been impressed by Paul Cornell's work on Action Comics.

That being said, I wish JMS the best.
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Old November 11 2010, 04:52 PM   #40
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Re: JMS Quits Superman & Wonder Woman

the Dagman wrote: View Post
^Once again for those too slow to grasp what I am saying here. Larry WAS on the payroll, which is how he got my friend onto the set. The source of wherever the info said he wasn't is in error. And I NEVER said that JMS committed any "acts of theft or plagiarism".
Saying that other people wrote Babylon 5's teleplays based upon story notes from JMS but that those staffers were denied a "Teleplay by" credit is the same thing as accusing JMS of plagiarism.

In real life, the situation you describe would warrant JMS getting a "Story by" credit and the staff writer in question getting a "Teleplay by" credit.

That is all on you guys. What I said is that JMS did write the broad strokes, which were all the major story beats, which is why he got the writers' credit. But he had a whole staff of writers who worked on the scripts to flesh out the ideas he didn't. Which is a very common practice in television and film. There are often writers who go uncredited.
Actually, it's far more common for the executive producer/head writer to do an uncredited re-write on a staffer's or freelancer's script and voluntarily forgo a "Written by" or "Teleplay by" credit, so as to allow the full residual to go to the staffer or freelancer. Many executive producers do this since they get a large residual just from being the executive producer anyways.
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Old November 11 2010, 05:18 PM   #41
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Re: JMS Quits Superman & Wonder Woman

About the comic move....

I hate to say it but I am relieved. I still think the "Grounded" concept is a good one, but it should've lasted about 5-6 issues, not a whole year. I thought it had the potential to get Superman back down to Earth, interacting with regular people, being 'super' in a different way. That it could lead to some interesting social commentary. I don't think it achieved that. That being said, I'm still interested in reading Earth One.

As for Wonder Woman, I think JMS has a better grasp on Superman. His Wonder Woman idea just showed how little he got the character. I know its been tough for many writers to 'get' her, but JMS just seemed to destroy WW's world just do to do it, without giving us any new insights into Diana's character or a fresh intrepretation of her world to replace the one he destroyed.

I liked JMS's Supreme Power and was hoping he could work similar magic with Superman and Wonder Woman. It's a shame he couldn't, but I am glad that either he or DC decided to shift him to the Earth One sequel instead of keeping him on both books.
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Old November 11 2010, 08:53 PM   #42
Admiral_Young
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Re: JMS Quits Superman & Wonder Woman

I too originally think that "Grounded" should have been one short opening arc and and then get on with the business of Superman protecting the world. I think JMS likes to bring too much politics and issues into his work sometimes when it just needs to be what it is. "Wonder Woman" lost me after the first issue. Morrison didn't even use her new costume in Return of Bruce Wayne #6 which I found hilarious.
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Old November 11 2010, 09:01 PM   #43
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Re: JMS Quits Superman & Wonder Woman

JMS really isnt really that good of a writer, in my opinion. Some of the dialog in B5 would have sounded bad even in a comic book. The show was often unwatchable ( listenable?) because of this. It might have been better off if other writers had polished his scripts and built on his ideas. I'm not sure he's a sophisticated enough writer to deal with "politics and issues" either.
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Old November 11 2010, 09:27 PM   #44
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Re: JMS Quits Superman & Wonder Woman

I meant to type social in front of issues lol.
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Old November 11 2010, 10:48 PM   #45
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Re: JMS Quits Superman & Wonder Woman

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
JMS really isnt really that good of a writer, in my opinion.
In terms of structuring a complex story arc over five seasons, over a hundred episodes and dozens of characters, I'd say he's a great writer.

In terms of character dialogue, well... er... STRAIGHT TO HELL WITH NUTS ON!

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