A Brand New Day Has Passed...It's time For Peter to hit the Big Time!!

[Admiral_Young]

I believe the poster is referring to his own following of Spider-Man not the franchise.

[Captain Craig]

Christopher wrote:

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Figures neither lie nor tell the truth. Which is why it's so easy for people to lie by twisting out-of-context figures to fit their preconceptions.

Spider-Man has been around for nearly 50 years, and its sales have gone up and down plenty of times. And there have been worse missteps in its past than OMD -- the Clone Saga, the Byrne reboot. It's survived those.

The figures don't lie, the title consistently was losing sales every month for a solid year+ with the often bump from something hyped like Anti-Venom. It lost a higher % of readership when compared to other similar titles so the axiom "its the economy" doesn't fit to those who tried using that as a crutch.

As for Clone Saga, readership was high. Not only were the print runs high per the era but they were bought. I've picked up BND issues a few months later in the $1 bin. Dealers would flat out say, I had to order high to get a variant but the issues wouldn't sell. Also the Clone Saga wasn't ERASAING Spidey lore, everything still happened as it had. They were only going to say, no doubt for awhile(ala Supes death/Batmans back etc), the other clone survived and was Peter. The 90's had those switcheroo's but readership flipped out...despite still buying it.

This time, readership flipped out with reason and stopped buying it. The numbers do not lie and there is no reason to have to twist them.

[Admiral_Young]

It is evident and even you Christopher have to recognize that Spider-Man fans have an overwhelming intense dislike of OMD and BND. Sales might not reflect this but discussions on internet boards such as this and with other Spider-Man fans that I've talked to about this issue have all agreed that they have dropped the book entirely because of what went down. I am not criticizing those people who like Brand New Day at all, good for them if they do, Joe Q will give those people a hug, what I am saying is that it has left a bad taste in fans mouth and done permanent damage to their fandom of the character. The only reason I still continue reading is that I've taken over the last few months to download issues and as stated twice now have enjoyed most of the stories in Brand New Day. I still wish the marriage was intact though.

[Christopher]

Admiral_Young wrote:

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It is evident and even you Christopher have to recognize that Spider-Man fans have an overwhelming intense dislike of OMD and BND.

Come on. Any argument that pretends that a large group of human beings -- especially fans -- has only a single monolithic opinion across the lot of them is unadulterated BS on the face of it. What you're saying is that you have such an intense dislike. Have the honesty to admit that you're talking about your own opinion. Yes, there are fans who agree with your opinion, but there are also fans who disagree with it. You can't get an entire fanbase to agree that the Sun rises in the east. So any sentence that includes the phrase "the fans think _____" is a lie and an insult to the intelligence of the listener. Don't waste my time with it.

I am a Spider-Man fan. I've written a Spider-Man novel, for Pete's sake. And I've said over and over again -- I hate OMD as fiercely as anyone. But I like BND. And I'm not the only one by far who hates OMD and likes BND. They are two separate things. Yes, they are linked by the underlying publishing plan behind them, but one turned out horribly while the other has turned out surprisingly well.

[Captain Craig]

Christopher wrote:

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I am a Spider-Man fan. I've written a Spider-Man novel, for Pete's sake.

I bought it last year but have yet to read it, I intend to though. Bought it just to boost its sales. I am going to read it though.

[Hound of UIster]

Christopher wrote:

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Figures neither lie nor tell the truth. Which is why it's so easy for people to lie by twisting out-of-context figures to fit their preconceptions.

BND was intended to replicate the success of DC's 52 weekly comic. Thats why Joe Q poached Steve Wacker over from DC to oversee the project. The project never was able to replicate that success despite having a better pool of artistic talent and later writing talent.

So certainly BND would be considered a failure though I agree with you with the quality of the stories after OMD. However they were done in spite of the changes and could have been told with or without the marriage

But to say that BND didn't fail is an absolute lie. It failed to fulfill its sales expectations and it destroyed the moral aspect of the character of Spider-Man/Peter Parker in the eyes of the fans.

[Snaploud]

Joe Q ruined Spider-Man and Iron Man. I gave up on X-Men a long time ago (not that I'm going to blame that one on Joe), and Thor was only interesting while JMS was writing it. I spend most of my money on DC and smaller independent lines (The Walking Dead, Invincible, Irredeemable, etc.) these days. Though, I do get the Deadpool comics. Deadpool has pretty much taken over for Spider-Man as the go-to wise-cracking superhuman.

Oh, I also think the Fantastic Four comics have been on a great run for a long time now.

[Christopher]

Hound of UIster wrote:

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The project never was able to replicate that success despite having a better pool of artistic talent and later writing talent.

So certainly BND would be considered a failure though I agree with you with the quality of the stories after OMD.

I'm bewildered by the attitude that being less successful than intended makes something a failure. Reality isn't that binary. A modest success is still a success.

[StarTrek1701]

Why can't comics just be stories about good vs. evil with a bunch of superheroics and slight romance with superpowers like they used to be?

[Kestrel]

You want the romance to have superpowers? You might be interested in Geoff Johns' Violet Lanterns then.

[Ayelbourne]

Technobuilder wrote:

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I completely lost any interest I had in the storyline of ongoing Spider-Man comics after OMD/BND.

Not to be a broken record, but I just don't see what the point of it was...

Not judging the quality of BND, just saying I don't care anymore.

Dito

I'm just not interested in Queseda's new Status Quo, regardless of the quality of writing.

[Admiral_Young]

I've read your Spider-Man novel and thought it was excellent along with the rest of your work. Yes I do dislike it, I don't know though how you can discount the rest of the people's voices on this board though who agree with that assessment? We already went through this debate about "Smallville" which I still disagree with as well...the board is a small aspect of fandom I will agree with that, how are we supposed to measure the rest of fandoms dislike? I don't get that.

[Admiral Buzzkill]

It's just...who cares about Spider-Man any more?

[Admiral_Young]

I still care about Spider-Man just not a fan of forced stories like this was and let's face it was forced on us and let's not turn this into a diatribe about how Editorial can do whatever they want without listening to the fans because that isn't what I'm saying.

[FPAlpha]

Christopher wrote:

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Figures neither lie nor tell the truth. Which is why it's so easy for people to lie by twisting out-of-context figures to fit their preconceptions.

Spider-Man has been around for nearly 50 years, and its sales have gone up and down plenty of times. And there have been worse missteps in its past than OMD -- the Clone Saga, the Byrne reboot. It's survived those.

I'm not saying that Spiderman will be gone someday.. he is one of the tentpole characters of Marvel and one of the most widely recognized but currently the character and his title suffers big time because of the ego of one chief editor who wanted to leave his mark on the character and start his own legacy and has failed yet is too proud and maybe arrogant to admit it openly (until someone higher up in the chain steps in and "orders" him to undo the damage as best they can).
I'm basing my opinion on my taste and on facts in the form of sales figures. My feeling tells me that OMD is pure shit and i haven't read such garbage in a long time and when i look at the sales figures back up to the release of OMD they speak a clear language so it's not a few fanboys on SF/Fantasy related message boards but the broad customer base that rejects Spiderman currently.

Christopher wrote:

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Come on. Any argument that pretends that a large group of human beings -- especially fans -- has only a single monolithic opinion across the lot of them is unadulterated BS on the face of it. What you're saying is that you have such an intense dislike. Have the honesty to admit that you're talking about your own opinion. Yes, there are fans who agree with your opinion, but there are also fans who disagree with it. You can't get an entire fanbase to agree that the Sun rises in the east. So any sentence that includes the phrase "the fans think _____" is a lie and an insult to the intelligence of the listener. Don't waste my time with it.

I am a Spider-Man fan. I've written a Spider-Man novel, for Pete's sake. And I've said over and over again -- I hate OMD as fiercely as anyone. But I like BND. And I'm not the only one by far who hates OMD and likes BND. They are two separate things. Yes, they are linked by the underlying publishing plan behind them, but one turned out horribly while the other has turned out surprisingly well.

See my posting above.. the sales figures are a measuring tool of success and they show that customers in general disagree with the current direction.

I wouldn't have had such a problem with a separation of Peter and MJ. Have them divorced, separated, some lame interdimensional technobabble that messes up only their continuity.. anything that doesn't compromise Peter's ideals but making a deal with the Devil???

This is so far out there for a guy who'd rather die than make a questionable moral decision again.. he'd sacrifice maybe his marriage to avoid making a morally bad decision. This i'd have liked to read but JoeQ and Marvel decided on another approach and we got what we got.

I don't know about the quality of the new stories (huge Ultimate Spidey fan but not that close to 616 Spiderman) since i lost what little interest i had after OMD but i hope they pull a reverse stunt and reestablish their relationship/marriage. MJ is such an integral part of Spiderman lore and it doesn't feel whole without her as wife.