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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: How would you rate Zero Sum Game?
Outstanding 38 22.22%
Above Average 78 45.61%
Average 45 26.32%
Below Average 8 4.68%
Poor 2 1.17%
Voters: 171. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 4 2010, 07:52 PM   #136
justcorbly
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Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

Rush Limborg wrote: View Post
I can just imagine what Ezri goes through in that scene--it's written in Julian's POV--and the aftermath. I wouldn't be suprised if, after Julian leaves, she breaks down completely into sobs of frustrated anguish and faliure at her blowing it so terribly.
Nah. Bashir behaved like an adolescent. After he stomps out, I suspect she swears at him, gets mad, and finishes her dinner, congratulating herself on leaving the guy behind. Can you see Dax being a starship captain while dragging that not-quite-grown guy around with her?

Still...poor Ezri.
Pretty hard for me to use that adjective with Dax. I didn't see any sign she's pining for Bashir or regrets her choices.

I will say that Mack has continued in giving Ezri some brief "quirks" (like her grabbing Julian and Sarina's arms to escort them to their quarters) that tell us this is still the cute, lovable Ezri we know and love...
I thought the linked arms bit was pretty contrived on her part, not at all spontaneous. I also think that Ezri is in control of the "cute, lovable" facets of her personality and, as a captain, deliberately deploys them to her advantage. In the conversation with the Romulan commander, for example.
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Old November 4 2010, 09:11 PM   #137
Rush Limborg
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Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

justcorbly wrote: View Post
Rush Limborg wrote: View Post
I can just imagine what Ezri goes through in that scene--it's written in Julian's POV--and the aftermath. I wouldn't be suprised if, after Julian leaves, she breaks down completely into sobs of frustrated anguish and faliure at her blowing it so terribly.
Nah. Bashir behaved like an adolescent.
...Can you see Dax being a starship captain while dragging that not-quite-grown guy around with her?
Honestly? I think the scene was a bit rushed--it blew up far too quickly to be believable...and Julian's outburst was kinda out-of-character. Still, there may be a story behind that--because, as I said, Ezri gave a similar outburst in This Gray Spirit. There may be a story there.

Still...poor Ezri.
Pretty hard for me to use that adjective with Dax. I didn't see any sign she's pining for Bashir or regrets her choices.
The entire scenario--that Ezri invites him into her quarters, is out of uniform when he arrives, gives the whole setting--food, wine, and decor--a clear "romantic" motif.

And of course the implications of Ezri's reactions:

[Bashir said,] "I guess that's just the way it is with people. Who they are depends a lot on where they are and whom they're with."

"True," said Dax, who seemed a bit more contempletive than usual.
He tried to downplay the statement with a one-shoulder shrug. "Just something Sarina said a long time ago, after she first met you."

Dax's mood darkened, and she became quiet. "Of course. I see."
On this second one...whatever makes Ezri assume from this that Julian has a crush on Sarina?

Also, the fact that she over-reacts a bit from the news...it really implies for me that she still has feelings for him.

After he stomps out, I suspect she swears at him, gets mad, and finishes her dinner, congratulating herself on leaving the guy behind.
Absolutely not. That completely contradicts her character in general, and the buildup in that chapter in particular.

I will say that Mack has continued in giving Ezri some brief "quirks" (like her grabbing Julian and Sarina's arms to escort them to their quarters) that tell us this is still the cute, lovable Ezri we know and love...
I thought the linked arms bit was pretty contrived on her part, not at all spontaneous. I also think that Ezri is in control of the "cute, lovable" facets of her personality and, as a captain, deliberately deploys them to her advantage. In the conversation with the Romulan commander, for example.
Whether it's "controlled" or not, she still has those qualities.

BTW...why did she "contrive" that gesture, unless, as Sarina later points out, Ezri still feels something--immensely? It smack almost of desperation on her part, telling herself that seeing Julian and Sarina together was not what it looked like....
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Last edited by Rush Limborg; November 4 2010 at 11:11 PM.
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Old November 4 2010, 10:23 PM   #138
justcorbly
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Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

Rush Limborg wrote: View Post
Honestly? I think the scene was a bit rushed--it blew up far too quickly to be believable...and Julian's outburst was kinda out-of-character. Still, there may be a story behind that--because, as I said, Ezri gave a similar outburst in This Gray Spirit. There may be a story there.
Admittedly, I've never paid that much attention to Bashir. But, certainly in this book, and in others about their breakup and the aftermath, Bashir comes across, at least to me, as a whiney little guy who hasn't learned to how to lead his own life. His angst about the genetic enhancements has always seemed to me misplaced and out of character for Trek. He lives in a universe full of people with artificial and genetic enhancements. Most seem grateful they have them and are alive because of them.

The entire scenario--that Ezri invites him into her quarters, is out of uniform when he arrives, gives the whole setting--food, wine, and decor--a clear "romantic" motif.
If it wasn't for their previous relationship, would you assume Ezri had romantic intentions because she dressed in her civvies and served wine at dinner? Wine at dinner seems pretty mundane, and I don't think it's been established that Starfleet personnel signal romance by wearing civilian clothes.

Getting clued into Bashir's feelings for Sarina, given knowledge of his earlier infatuation with her, is something that even Data could have managed. Given what we know of Sarina's appearance and appeal, it's pretty safe to assume that about any male in her company.

OTOH, maybe that's what the author intended. If so, it didn't work for me. A straight interpretation -- that Ezri wanted to host a private dinner so she could apologize for how she treated him -- an indication of her maturity -- only to see it backfire when his behavior triggered them both into assuming their old adversarial roles -- works for me.

Getting mad and swearing after Bashir stomps out may have contradicted who she used to be, but she isn't that person any longer. The notion of Ezri wallowing in misery and going on a crying jag after that scene is completely out of tune with how she has behaved since, for lack of a better term, she grew up.

And I'm happy she did. I didn't like the old Ezri very much. The new kickass version is much better.
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Old November 4 2010, 11:04 PM   #139
ares93
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Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

^no idea what you guys are talking about but i like what i read. should be getting my copy tomorrow or monday.

meh, i like both ezri's. both have some lovable character traits. cant wait until i read the entire scene. i always hoped they get back together, guess thats getting further and further away now.

guess we gotta stick to fanfic, eh Rushbo?
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Old November 4 2010, 11:10 PM   #140
Rush Limborg
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Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

Yeah...speaking of which, I've a new idea in mind--based heavily on this. Look for it in a few weeks, if not sooner.
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Old November 4 2010, 11:44 PM   #141
kaysea
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Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

Thanks Mack, I've been waiting for this one. I enjoyed it. Although I personally would have liked more of Bacco, although I admit I'm a huge fan of Atricles of the Federation. I can never get enough of how the Federation is run and how the differing species interact with one another. I could do less with the Bashir and Dax characters. Maybe cause I never liked them from the very start. I just hope we see less of them in the upcoming novels.

So far this series looks promising. I just HOPE it culminates into an epic massive war ... maybe something similar to the dominion war? I can only hope.

I have a few questions,
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Old November 4 2010, 11:57 PM   #142
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Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

kaysea wrote: View Post
I have a few questions,
It's all about plausible deniability.


The fact that you just described the entire sequence of events shows why it was not necessary for me to do so. It would have been anticlimactic and added nothing to the story.
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Old November 5 2010, 12:21 AM   #143
ares93
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Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

David Mack wrote: View Post
It's all about plausible deniability.
feds are getting paranoid i see. finally someone who knocked the off their high horses... the dominion started the job, but i guess the pact had to finish it. the galaxy isnt as nice as they believed it to be...

btw: if i dont get my book tomorrow i'll probably go down to the post office and start shooting. Tomorrows headlines: "Crazy Trek fan attacks postal workers with ancient firearm. Pleads not guilty. Claims delay of new David Mack book caused temporary insanity."

Hmm, i could actually get away with that... God bless the swedish justice system
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Old November 5 2010, 12:29 AM   #144
kaysea
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Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

Ok. I'll buy those answers.

Great job on the novel and creating this Star Trek universe. Please keep this Star Trek Universe alive and I hope you continue to write on it until your death. If you write it I will buy it
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Old November 5 2010, 02:02 AM   #145
Rush Limborg
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Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

Mr. Mack, I have a question:

Why is it that we rarely, if ever, in the book read anything from Ezri's POV--and that whenever we do, we read little to nothing of her inner thoughts?
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Old November 5 2010, 03:17 AM   #146
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Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

^ Because I want her to be a mystery — an enigma wrapped in a riddle and smothered with secret sauce. Metaphorically speaking. Don't go getting any pervy notions.
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Old November 5 2010, 03:27 AM   #147
Rush Limborg
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Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

David Mack wrote: View Post
^ Because I want her to be a mystery — an enigma wrapped in a riddle and smothered with secret sauce. Metaphorically speaking. Don't go getting any pervy notions.
Ah! Sweet...!

Okay, Mr. Mack. Here's holding out hope that we'll get an inkling of her arc in the book in the near future.

In the meantime...I guess it's up to all us rank amateurs to pick up the slack on that....

(I tell ya...that makes me feel good inside. Hey--what are the odds her arc is something similar to Odo's upon the poor changeling's discovery of Kira/Shakkar...?)
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Old November 5 2010, 03:27 AM   #148
David Brennon
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Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

/pervy notions
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Old November 5 2010, 04:30 AM   #149
shanejayell
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Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

Hmm, sauce....
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Old November 5 2010, 02:54 PM   #150
ares93
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Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

USS Hartington wrote: View Post
/pervy notions
shanejayell wrote: View Post
Hmm, sauce....
uhm...

David Mack wrote: View Post
Don't go getting any pervy notions.
nuff said although, Mr Mack, you have to admit. it sounded really dirty.


oh and i didnt get the book today but regardless what i said earlier, i wont shoot anyone. now its hard for me to admit, but i'm afraid of the damn thing. hell, it hast been fired in 50 years. and i'm quite fond of my right hand, thank you... i have no intention of losing it.
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