The Dark Knight Rises Anticipation Station

[Skywalker]

Set Harth wrote:

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God, movie studios suck.

No kidding. Who thinks Warners would have wanted to call it Batman 3D?

[DigificWriter]

The amount of absolute, unadulterated crap that's cropped up over the past couple of days astounds me.

Beyond credible sources like The Hollywood Reporter and Variety, I trust only the following when it comes to news and/or rumors: Batman on Film, IGN, and SuperHeroHype, and all 3 places are smart enough not to post or even give any form of credibility to the BS that's cropped up. Jett (webmaster and operator of BoF) did post the Essen/Madison rumor, but, after doing some more research into it, has since said that he doesn't think there's any validity to it, but that's the only thing he's touched, and rightfully so.

You'd think people would actually use some common sense when it comes to rumors and stuff, but apparently that's not the case, which has led to the crap that we've been seeing the last two days.

[Captaindemotion]

Wasn't Julie Madison the character played by Elle McPherson in Batman & Robin? That alone makes me think that those rumours have to be untrue.

[Christopher]

Captaindemotion wrote:

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Wasn't Julie Madison the character played by Elle McPherson in Batman & Robin? That alone makes me think that those rumours have to be untrue.

As I said, Julie Madison was Bruce Wayne's first love interest in the comics, way back in 1939-41. The character McPherson played in B&R was based on her.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julie_Madison

[Admiral_Young]

Not only that but Julie and Bruce were engaged if I recall correctly, Tony Daniel I believe it was did a flashback retrospective on the career of Batman after RIP concluded and there was a panel containing a scene where Alfred essentially has to inform Julie that the engagement is off and Bruce is occupied that he can't tell her himself. Something gets reported online and then a whole slew of speculation and rumors starts up from that initial report, for instance...'Nolan Meeting Actresses For New Female Lead' leads to rampart speculation across the internet everyone from Julie Madison to Talia. Drives me insane sometimes.

[Captaindemotion]

Christopher wrote:

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As I said, Julie Madison was Bruce Wayne's first love interest in the comics, way back in 1939-41. The character McPherson played in B&R was based on her.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julie_Madison

I did see your earlier post - but I was asking about that movie specifically, not the old comics . My suspicion is that Nolan will want to avoid anything that appeared in B&R.

I agree that it would make more sense to have Silver StCloud (crap name notwithstanding) or Vicki Vale in the movie.

[Christopher]

Captaindemotion wrote:

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I did see your earlier post - but I was asking about that movie specifically, not the old comics . My suspicion is that Nolan will want to avoid anything that appeared in B&R.

Except that that would mean avoiding Batman, Bruce Wayne, Alfred, Commissioner Gordon, Gotham City, etc. There have to be limits on avoidance.

And really, who even remembers that there was a character called Julie Madison in B&R? I sure didn't. She was a very minor part of the film. I can believe that Nolan would avoid Mr. Freeze or Poison Ivy because of the negative associations, but Julie Madison? I don't think so.

[Admiral_Young]

I remember because Elle McPherson played her and it was a big deal back then that was supposed to launch her movie career. I believe that he's avoiding using Robin due to the negative associations that came from the misuse of the character in both "Batman Forever" and "Batman and Robin". I keep harping on it but a perfectly mature and great Dick Grayson origin story is staring them in their faces with "Batman: Dark Victory" and the tone of how Loeb handled and wrote the character fits perfectly with his films but I digress and it's a moot point since it won't be happening. I just hope that when another director is given the reigns with the film that Robin gets his due and is treated with the same serious and clear headed manner that Batman is and I'm not talking about character, I'm talking about use in the movie.

[Captain Craig]

I do believe the part about WB execs INSISTING on Dark Knight being in the title. Its why the title sounds so lame, they felt they HAD to have it in there suddenly instead of just trusting Nolan and marketing the film in the same effective way they did TDK and Inception.

Christopher wrote:

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Okay, I read that there some sort of connection in the comics between Julie Madison and some incarnation of Clayface, but it's bizarre that anyone would think Nolan would use such a fanciful character as Clayface.

Not if it's the FIRST Clayface when he was just a human. Before he became the Ultimate Clayface we now know.

The original Clayface, Basil Karlo, appeared in Detective Comics#40. He is an actor who is driven mad when he hears of a remake of the classic horror film he had starred in, The Terror, even though he is to be one of the advising staff. Donning the mask of the film's villain, Clayface, he embarks on a murder spree among the cast and crew of the remake. He is foiled by Batman and and Robin. He reappears in Detective Comics #49 (March 1941) after the prison ambulance he is riding in plunges off a cliff. He once again dons the mask of Clayface and targets Bruce Wayne's fiancée, Julie Madison. Once again, the Dynamic Duo foil the evil Karlo. A movie buff, Batman creator Bob Kane states that the character was partially inspired by the Lon Chaney, Sr. version of The Phantom of the Opera and that the name of the character comes from Boris Karloff.

Granted I don't see a way to work in a mad actor on a killing spree into a TDK followup but it would be a way to showcase a villain that has yet to appear on the big screen. He and Killer Croc are about the last big ones to not appear and Bane still needs to be done right but I digress.

Black Mask is a great second tier villain so I could buy into that rumor, at least it makes sense structure wise.

[Captaindemotion]

Christopher wrote:

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Except that that would mean avoiding Batman, Bruce Wayne, Alfred, Commissioner Gordon, Gotham City, etc. There have to be limits on avoidance.

And really, who even remembers that there was a character called Julie Madison in B&R? I sure didn't. She was a very minor part of the film. I can believe that Nolan would avoid Mr. Freeze or Poison Ivy because of the negative associations, but Julie Madison? I don't think so.

The difference is that Gordon, Alfred etc are pretty essential to the Bat-mythos. Julie isn't.

As I say, I only have a suspicion that Nolan won't want to use her, but this is bolstered by the fact that Bruce/ Batman has several leading ladies that haven't been used in the Nolanverse or even any of the Batman movies to date. Just as he avoided any villains who'd been used in live-action movies in BB and just as he's not using The Riddler in TDKR, I think he'll do something similar for the female lead in this movie. In particular, I think he'll want to avoid her because of the B&R connection. Vicki Vale is probably a more interesting lead, if he was going to use a character who's already appeared in the movies.

But it's merely a suspicion.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Talia Al Ghul and Hugo Strange would be my picks. With cameos of Selina Kyle and a 3 year old Dick Grayson.

[Admiral_Young]

Grayson won't be in the films period. Talia, Strange, and Black Mask would be my preference I'd be pleasantly surprised to see either of them in the film.

[Christopher]

Admiral_Young wrote:

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I remember because Elle McPherson played her and it was a big deal back then that was supposed to launch her movie career.

I'm sure people remember that Elle McPherson was in the movie. That doesn't mean they remember her character's name.

I believe that he's avoiding using Robin due to the negative associations that came from the misuse of the character in both "Batman Forever" and "Batman and Robin".

I'm pretty sure he's avoiding Robin because it's unrealistic that Batman would take on an adolescent sidekick, and because a character as bright and colorful as Dick/Robin wouldn't fit the tone of the Nolan movies. Robin is a child's wish-fulfillment fantasy and he works better in a more fanciful context than these films offer. In the Nolan films' gritty universe, a story about Batman taking on a teenager as his sidekick and dressing him in a bright, garish costume would play too much like Miller's TDKR, making Batman come off as a lunatic committing child endangerment.

[Agent Richard07]

^ My response to that has always been... Make him fit. Anything can work if done right. Nolan did a 600 year old guy with a magic rejuvenation pit afterall.

[Admiral_Young]

Again I cite "Batmanark Victory" read it and tell me that Robin origin wouldn't fit perfectly to Nolan's movies. I wish fans would quit giving me arguments why Robin wouldn't work, I'm well aware of why he's not being used and in fact stated why several times. Give me a reason instead why he WOULD work. I'm tired of hearing fans spout the same old tiresome stuff about Robin.