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Old October 28 2010, 07:32 AM   #16
KirkPicard
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Re: when will we have a bluray?

According to an article from the website, TVshowsonDVD back in August:

In a response to a question about TNG on Blu-ray, CBS Consumer Products VP John Van Citters told the convention crowd in Las Vegas that releasing Star Trek: The Next Generation on Blu-ray was much more "problematic" than the original Star Trek, due to how the TNG original effects shots were composited, and how that makes the transfer to HD "incredibly difficult without making them look awful." However, he also said that there is "a lot of conversations going on" within CBS on how to convert TNG to HD, and Van Citters expressed optimism noting "It is being worked on and I expect it will happen, it is just a technical challenge."

Following his talk, I confirmed with Van Citters that even though he is optimistic that the challenges will be met, as of now there is no specific plan or budget for the project within CBS. So this is still something that is a long-term project.

Taken from: http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Sta...#ixzz13dHZmzCj
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Old October 28 2010, 05:23 PM   #17
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Re: when will we have a bluray?

In the thread in the TNG forum, someone suggested they take The Best of Both Worlds, update effects, full HD, the whole works, and release it theatrically (just like what they did with The Menagerie for TOS). This would serve both to raise funds for the Blu-Ray project, and gauge general interest. I personally thought that was a very good idea.

Last edited by The Fatman; October 28 2010 at 05:39 PM.
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Old October 28 2010, 07:29 PM   #18
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Re: when will we have a bluray?

Harvey wrote: View Post

SEINFELD was able to spare the expense of re-editing all of their episodes in order to release them in HD (the Blu-Rays have yet to emerge, but they're already being aired in HD on television).
With a show like Seinfeld, there are no special effects to deal with. I believe the episodes, which I have seen, on TBS are just cropped to a 16:9 aspect ratio (no stretching of image on the edges). Up til about season 4, they look rough... the later seasons look much better.

It would be nice if they do release Seinfeld on Blu-Ray that we get both the 4:3 and 16:9 versions.

I'm honestly not sure we'll ever see HD versions of The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine or Voyager. The images are just to soft and fuzzy for them to do a quality upscaling and the amount of reworking needed for the original film with new effects would be expensive. Plus we have no idea what type of shape the original film is in or if it even exists (completely) anymore.

I think we're just going to have to be satisfied with the current home video releases.
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Old October 28 2010, 07:53 PM   #19
The Trekster
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Re: when will we have a bluray?

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
VulcanLoveSlave wrote: View Post
What TheGodBen said. They'll need to recut every episode. Which isn't as much work as redoing all of the vidual effects, but honestly, it wouldn't even be that hard.
Actually, it's possibly more work than redoing the visual effects. Editing an episode takes days, re-editing an episode to exactly match the original version would be a nightmare of a task, even with modern editing software. I don't know how well the film negatives are archived, but they'd need to find the right scene, the right angle, the right take, and then get the timing exactly right for each transition. That's not only hard, it's extremely dull for the editors too because they wouldn't be able to add any of themselves to it, it would be pure replication of someone else's work. Even TOS-R wasn't beholden to complete replication of the VFX original shots.
I'm an indie filmmaker, and I shoot and edit most of my work myself. I can tell you that editing is always tedious (it takes far far more than days to cut a 45min show), but this is these folks' job. It's always a bitch and the process is no different for re-cutting the film than it would have been for the first edit.

You've always got rolls and rolls of film and you always need to sort through and find the right shot and the right take. But that's what your scripty is for, to keep track of all the shots and which roll they are on (amongst other things). Not to mention, in the first edit, someone already did that for you. They don't just cut the film with scissors and throw stuff out or shove it in a box unlabeled. And typically post prod flow would include a logging of which footage has been used where (especially at the hollywood level).

Once you have the right shot and take, getting the timing right is a breeze. Not only does your NLE allow you to synchronize the shots so the frames match up perfectly, but then it's simply a matter of counting frames and looking at the time code (usually something that is recorded on paper during the editing process, btw).

SFX-wise, I'd be totally fine if they completely re-did them. Isn't that part of what remastering is supposed to accomplish? Updating effects as well as visual quality?

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
And I'm gonna disagree that they won't make a return on their investment. Are you telling me that Trekkies are not going to buy up HD versions of TNG and VOY in droves?
I'm certainly not, I paid enough for the DVDs, thank you very much. I don't even have a blu-ray player. Blu-ray players are still a niche item at the moment, and Star Trek fandom is a niche group already. The market just isn't there, not yet.

The only way this would be worthwhile is if they got a syndication deal out of it like TOS-R, where some HD station buys the rights to air each season as they're produced and the blu-rays come out later. Even there, it's still debatable if they'd make a return on investment.
It's definitely true that blu-ray hasn't taken off as folks in the distribution business have hoped. This is mainly due to the economy's bubble bursting(in 2000, even) and people having less interest/ability to buy luxury items. This is why the price hasn't come down and why there are major compatibility issues even within the format.

So we'll see if blu-ray lasts. One thing is for sure though, HD itself isn't going anywhere.
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Old October 28 2010, 07:59 PM   #20
The Trekster
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Re: when will we have a bluray?

The Fatman wrote: View Post
In the thread in the TNG forum, someone suggested they take The Best of Both Worlds, update effects, full HD, the whole works, and release it theatrically (just like what they did with The Menagerie for TOS). This would serve both to raise funds for the Blu-Ray project, and gauge general interest. I personally thought that was a very good idea.
That's a fantastic idea!
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Old October 28 2010, 08:05 PM   #21
The Trekster
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Re: when will we have a bluray?

BillJ wrote: View Post

I'm honestly not sure we'll ever see HD versions of The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine or Voyager. The images are just to soft and fuzzy for them to do a quality upscaling and the amount of reworking needed for the original film with new effects would be expensive. Plus we have no idea what type of shape the original film is in or if it even exists (completely) anymore.
The reason the picture looks so 'soft and fuzzy' is that it was transferred to video, thus making it SD. If you saw the film they shot, I'm sure it would be sharp as a knife.

There would be no upscaling from those video copies required at all. 35mm film is usually filmed and scanned with a 4k resolution, that's slightly more than 4 times HD quality. So they wouldn't have to do a thing as far as converting the footage to HD, in fact, by making it HD, they are actually degrading the original image

While it's totally possible that someone was an idiot and 'lost' thousands of hours worth of film, I highly doubt it. It's not like the show is 100 years old...
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Old October 28 2010, 08:25 PM   #22
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Re: when will we have a bluray?

VulcanLoveSlave wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post

I'm honestly not sure we'll ever see HD versions of The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine or Voyager. The images are just to soft and fuzzy for them to do a quality upscaling and the amount of reworking needed for the original film with new effects would be expensive. Plus we have no idea what type of shape the original film is in or if it even exists (completely) anymore.
The reason the picture looks so 'soft and fuzzy' is that it was transferred to video, thus making it SD. If you saw the film they shot, I'm sure it would be sharp as a knife.

There would be no upscaling from those video copies required at all. 35mm film is usually filmed and scanned with a 4k resolution, that's slightly more than 4 times HD quality. So they wouldn't have to do a thing as far as converting the footage to HD, in fact, by making it HD, they are actually degrading the original image

While it's totally possible that someone was an idiot and 'lost' thousands of hours worth of film, I highly doubt it. It's not like the show is 100 years old...
You just pretty much repeated what I said.

The current episodes are to soft and fuzzy to do an HD upscaling of that material.

I wonder if they have the complete film elements to do a remastering. They don't have to lose 'thousands of hours worth of film', just lose a little here... a little there. And it cripples the project.
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Old October 28 2010, 08:34 PM   #23
jefferiestubes8
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series Blu-ray

JekylHyde wrote: View Post
Hi
i know that there is a bluray for all the films
& for the first original tv show
& for the last show enterprise
but what with:
The Next Generation
Deep Space Nine
Voyager
will we see a bluray/HD DVD for them soon?
thanks
JekylHyde this has been covered before in great detail.
Read these threads:
Star Trek TNG Remastered?
with 679 replies

TNG remastered in HD? It CAN be done.

STNG remastered and in 3D?? CBS weighs in on this!

TNG remastered


REMASTER THE ENTIRE DEEP SPACE NINE SERIES.

DS9 should get Remastered


Remaster the entire Voyager Series...........

Actually Enterprise (2001-2005) has not been released nor announced for Blu-ray release yet. Although it would not be much work to remaster to Blu-ray. This is the closest discussion to it on TrekBBS:
Star Trek: Enterprise seasons Blu-ray spec. features wishlist
with 30 replies.


The Fatman wrote: View Post
In the thread in the TNG forum, someone suggested they take The Best of Both Worlds, update effects, full HD, the whole works, and release it theatrically (just like what they did with The Menagerie for TOS).
The suggestion here.
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Old October 28 2010, 11:26 PM   #24
Harvey
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Re: when will we have a bluray?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Harvey wrote: View Post

SEINFELD was able to spare the expense of re-editing all of their episodes in order to release them in HD (the Blu-Rays have yet to emerge, but they're already being aired in HD on television).
With a show like Seinfeld, there are no special effects to deal with.
In the early seasons, yes. But by the end of the series, as it had gotten more and more absurd, SEINFELD included visual effects quite often. In any event, the visual effects are not really the problem. If CBS Paramount could afford to redo the effects for every episode of STAR TREK, then it could certainly afford the same for STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION. DS9 and VOY have more elaborate visual effects, and are less popular, so they remain an open question.

I think we're just going to have to be satisfied with the current home video releases.
For the time being, yes. But I find it highly unlikely that STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION will remain unreleased in HD forever.
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Old October 28 2010, 11:33 PM   #25
jefferiestubes8
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Re: when will we have a bluray?

BillJ wrote: View Post
I think we're just going to have to be satisfied with the current home video releases.
i agree.

VulcanLoveSlave wrote: View Post
I'm honestly not sure we'll ever see HD versions of The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine or Voyager. The images are just to soft and fuzzy
While watching a first season episode of VOY some of the closeups were just out of focus. Not via diffusion but out of focus! You can't restore that. With the hectic pace of TV they just let things go if it's good enough for broadcast (at the time in standard definition).
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Old October 29 2010, 02:52 AM   #26
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Re: when will we have a bluray?

I do notice while watching TNG or early years of DS9 or Voyager that the picture does look kind of, I don't know. I want to say grainy, but I'm not sure if that's the proper term. But anyhoo, I like it. It adds some distinction and character to the show. Full crystal clear HD picture is not always necessary to enjoy a show.
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Old October 29 2010, 03:16 AM   #27
jefferiestubes8
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Re: when will we have a bluray?

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Full crystal clear HD picture is no always necessary to enjoy a show.
Agreed.
There was some discussion in this thread:
HIDEF..too good?
about the fidelity and sharpness taking away from the storytelling.
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Old October 29 2010, 07:13 PM   #28
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Re: when will we have a bluray?

jefferiestubes8 wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Full crystal clear HD picture is no always necessary to enjoy a show.
Agreed.
There was some discussion in this thread:
HIDEF..too good?
about the fidelity and sharpness taking away from the storytelling.
The arguments put forth in that thread are good ones for TV shows, but movie film is basically infinite definition. If a problem can be seen in a HD movie on your HD TV, then it was also visible at the movie theater. So, yes, things that are hidden by the low definition of non HD TV would become visible in HD. The trick would be to use computer to animate the back ground, or remove clumsy sets and replace them. That's a lot of work. So as I said earlier, it would be too expensive to upgrade TNG/DS9/VOY to HD right now, it wont be done until the price comes down.
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Old October 29 2010, 07:21 PM   #29
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Re: when will we have a bluray?

I think we see a new Star Trek animated series before we see The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine or Voyager in high-definition. At this point, I'm pretty sure we won't see any of those series on the Blu-Ray platform.
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Old October 29 2010, 07:24 PM   #30
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Re: when will we have a bluray?

Vanyel wrote: View Post
jefferiestubes8 wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Full crystal clear HD picture is no always necessary to enjoy a show.
Agreed.
There was some discussion in this thread:
HIDEF..too good?
about the fidelity and sharpness taking away from the storytelling.
The arguments put forth in that thread are good ones for TV shows, but movie film is basically infinite definition. If a problem can be seen in a HD movie on your HD TV, then it was also visible at the movie theater. So, yes, things that are hidden by the low definition of non HD TV would become visible in HD. The trick would be to use computer to animate the back ground, or remove clumsy sets and replace them. That's a lot of work. So as I said earlier, it would be too expensive to upgrade TNG/DS9/VOY to HD right now, it wont be done until the price comes down.
Not sure the price of labor it costs to re-edit these shows is ever going to go down.
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