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Old October 26 2010, 02:16 PM   #46
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: ST: Shaping a Cardassian - The Shadow of the Order

Here I think that Zamarran shows his relative maturity, in that he is able to go back and analyze his actions--or inaction--before Brenok has to TELL him that he screwed up.

Kapoor was similar in that it was inaction, not action on her part, that did cause things to get worse (though I will say once things got bad, she was part of the solution and not the problem). It's good that she wasn't singled out, though, because I'd bet Brenok realized that her feelings about being the one human in the Guard aren't something she'd want to share publicly. This has probably given her a sense of loneliness and homesickness that, even if she healed from it before, has come right back. But I wonder, if it got painful for her...obviously she could talk to her husband, but if she needed a more experienced officer's perspective, I wonder if she could talk to Gul Brenok? (I know they're not equals, but I would expect that there's a mentoring relationship there.)

One more thing about Kapoor. I have to think her reports won't look like the others'. I hope she won't be tempted to use that as a loophole for any deliberate forgetting. (Though I wonder if she's had any training to better use a human's natural gifts, even though her brain functions differently than a Cardassian's?)

The one thing I didn't like was Zamarran's suggestion that Cardassians are civilized and aliens are not. I hope he meant that in the sense of "that particular crew out there is undisciplined and has bad leadership" (which does seem to be the case at this point), not that all Federation people are those things. That's an example of the kind of thing I think would be bothering Kapoor right about now. She has her own choices and behavior to be uncomfortable with...that wouldn't have made it any better.

Just question...when did Brenok meet Jeto and see her features? During his private conversation with Ma'Kan, it sounds as though he did. Was he sent a picture?

As for Brenok himself...it seems like his pain has gotten worse over the years. I wish I could help him, but I'm sure a human woman's touch would be the most awkward thing possible for him! (I also wish I could lend him a certain Cardassian neurologist from the Sherouk...)
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Old October 26 2010, 03:06 PM   #47
Gul Re'jal
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Re: ST: Shaping a Cardassian - The Shadow of the Order

Nerys Dukat wrote: View Post
The one thing I didn't like was Zamarran's suggestion that Cardassians are civilized and aliens are not. I hope he meant that in the sense of "that particular crew out there is undisciplined and has bad leadership" (which does seem to be the case at this point), not that all Federation people are those things.
Yes, he meant that particular crew in the light of this particular event. Not general.
Nerys Dukat wrote: View Post
Just question...when did Brenok meet Jeto and see her features? During his private conversation with Ma'Kan, it sounds as though he did. Was he sent a picture?
He saw her the first time he had beamed to the Karamazov with Zamarran and Ya'val. Th'Arshar took the Cardassians to his ready room, where they met rest of the "team", including Jeto (Chapter 3). That's why he suffers now - because he spent that time on the Fed ship in "cold".
Nerys Dukat wrote: View Post
As for Brenok himself...it seems like his pain has gotten worse over the years.
Normally he doesn't have to suffer that badly, but recently he spent a lot of time on the Fed colony, which was cold for his standards and now on the Fed ship when they first visited. That's why he didn't go to the dinner - he knew it would get even worse and it was bad already.
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Old October 26 2010, 04:27 PM   #48
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: ST: Shaping a Cardassian - The Shadow of the Order

Gul Spook wrote: View Post
Nerys Dukat wrote: View Post
The one thing I didn't like was Zamarran's suggestion that Cardassians are civilized and aliens are not. I hope he meant that in the sense of "that particular crew out there is undisciplined and has bad leadership" (which does seem to be the case at this point), not that all Federation people are those things.
Yes, he meant that particular crew in the light of this particular event. Not general.
OK, good.

I still wonder if that remark might make Kapoor feel bad, though. If she did, would she ask Brenok what was meant? Respectfully, of course.

Nerys Dukat wrote: View Post
Just question...when did Brenok meet Jeto and see her features? During his private conversation with Ma'Kan, it sounds as though he did. Was he sent a picture?
He saw her the first time he had beamed to the Karamazov with Zamarran and Ya'val. Th'Arshar took the Cardassians to his ready room, where they met rest of the "team", including Jeto (Chapter 3). That's why he suffers now - because he spent that time on the Fed ship in "cold".
Oops! I totally forgot about that!

Nerys Dukat wrote: View Post
As for Brenok himself...it seems like his pain has gotten worse over the years.
Normally he doesn't have to suffer that badly, but recently he spent a lot of time on the Fed colony, which was cold for his standards and now on the Fed ship when they first visited. That's why he didn't go to the dinner - he knew it would get even worse and it was bad already.
Awwww. Maybe a gentle hug would make it a little better? Not a tight or embarrassing one, but still...
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Old October 27 2010, 12:30 AM   #49
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Re: ST: Shaping a Cardassian - The Shadow of the Order

I still wonder if that remark might make Kapoor feel bad, though. If she did, would she ask Brenok what was meant? Respectfully, of course.
I am not sure she feels like it was about "her", like it included her in the "Federation" types that cannot behave. She is here, among Cardassians and they don't treat her like an outsider, a Fed, who lost her way and got here by accident. For Zamarran she is a Cardassian, she knows he didn't mean her. And what she thinks about it... that's one of reasons why I'm stuck with his chapter

Maybe a gentle hug would make it a little better? Not a tight or embarrassing one, but still...
You may have noticed that his crew is quite protective of him when he suffers. It irritates him, so he's rather be treated normally, instead of being "cheered up" or "cared about". There's only one person, who could help him, and she's not there, so he doesn't want anyone to make fuss of it.
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Old October 27 2010, 12:42 AM   #50
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Re: ST: Shaping a Cardassian - The Shadow of the Order

Gul Spook wrote: View Post
I still wonder if that remark might make Kapoor feel bad, though. If she did, would she ask Brenok what was meant? Respectfully, of course.
I am not sure she feels like it was about "her", like it included her in the "Federation" types that cannot behave. She is here, among Cardassians and they don't treat her like an outsider, a Fed, who lost her way and got here by accident. For Zamarran she is a Cardassian, she knows he didn't mean her. And what she thinks about it... that's one of reasons why I'm stuck with his chapter
Embarrassed, and like they think she came from a bad place (even though she herself is one of them)?

Also...there is a such thing as "reverse culture shock."

Maybe a gentle hug would make it a little better? Not a tight or embarrassing one, but still...
You may have noticed that his crew is quite protective of him when he suffers. It irritates him, so he's rather be treated normally, instead of being "cheered up" or "cared about". There's only one person, who could help him, and she's not there, so he doesn't want anyone to make fuss of it.
Well...I'm not sure if it would make him feel better or worse to let him know that it's because he's not the only person on the Roumar who has a human who's attracted to him, and will accept any "excuse"...
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Old October 27 2010, 01:07 AM   #51
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Re: ST: Shaping a Cardassian - The Shadow of the Order

Also...there is a such thing as "reverse culture shock."
I think I would share this one with her

Well...I'm not sure if it would make him feel better or worse to let him know that it's because he's not the only person on the Roumar who has a human who's attracted to him
He would go ................. ....
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Old October 27 2010, 02:39 AM   #52
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Re: ST: Shaping a Cardassian - The Shadow of the Order

Glad to know it would end with .
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Old October 27 2010, 11:00 AM   #53
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Re: ST: Shaping a Cardassian - The Shadow of the Order

USS Karamazov
Argaya Sector near the Cardassian Union border
Stardate: 73687.8
8th of September, 2396, Old Earth Calendar





Lieutenant Jeto stood in front of th’Arshar’s desk and stared blankly above his head. He observed her, his antennae rolled forward and unmoving.

“You had promised me you could deal with them,” he said finally.

“Yes, sir.”

“Was their presence enough? They didn’t do anything threatening, they didn’t treat you any differently. They didn’t ask you any annoying questions. They didn’t ask you any questions at all! So tell me... Why?”

“I don’t know, sir.”

“That’s not good enough!” his voice raised as he rose from his chair.

“I know, sir. I am sorry, sir.” Finally, she looked at him. Her eyes expressed sadness. Did she really understand how wrong her behaviour was?

He went around his desk and stood next to her, she followed him with her eyes.

“Lieutenant, your work on this project will be limited to shipboard activities. You will have no direct contact with the Cardassian crew. I still need your expertise, but you will work only with our crew and the data they would deliver. Is that understood?”

“Yes, sir.”

“I will also make an appropriate note in your profile. Additionally you will increase number of counselling sessions. These issues cannot remain unaddressed.” She blinked at him with anger, but didn’t say anything. He knew she probably had enough of counselors and sessions of all types, but he believed she had to learn to deal with her problem or it would burn her from inside and destroy her in result. He didn’t want that. “Dismissed.”

She left his ready room and he sighed heavily. He was lenient, too lenient, he knew, but he couldn’t bring himself to yell at the girl, who wasn’t completely guilty of her behaviour.

But there was someone, who added oil to the fire and who did control himself fully. “Th’Arshar to Ha’varra, please report to my ready room.”

Ha’varra must have expected to be called in and waited on the bridge, as he appeared very quickly.

“Sir?”

“Sit down, Counselor,” the Andorian returned to his chair and slowly sat. “I had a talk with Lieutenant Jeto and I think she needs more help regarding this incident.” Ha’varra only nodded. “Her behaviour proves she can’t work with the Cardassians. I also think that the incident itself left some mark and she needs to deal with that too.”

“I agree.”

“I’m glad you do. Now, what do you have to say to me?” The Counselor stared at his Captain blankly. “Your behaviour left a lot to be desired, Counselor. You asked questions which were clearly making the situation worse and in spite of heated atmosphere you kept asking more.”

“Those were valid questions, sir.”

“No. Not in this place and not at this time. I am not a fan of the Cardassians, but I would not confront them about their nasty past, or nasty present, or nasty anything. Especially since these people didn’t seem nasty to me at all. I don’t agree with what they’ve said. But we haven’t met tonight for political debates. We have met to know each other better in the light of our scientific co-operation. They didn’t have to agree to our participation in this project, but they did. Let’s not ruin it. They still didn’t ask us to leave, so I hope this unfortunate dinner haven’t ruined this chance, but I am sure they don’t have enough patience to let it go again.”

“Yes, sir,” Ha’varra muttered.

“Good. Now. You will take care of Jeto’s mental state. You won’t have any direct contact with the Cardassians either, especially since it’s not necessary. Keep an eye on all crew members, who might have hard time to deal with their presence and working with them. I will not tolerate any more incidents.”

“Yes, sir.”

Th’Arshar felt like an idiot, because he also was the cause of the incident himself and now he was rebuking someone else and there was no one to rebuke him.

“Dismissed.”

He waited for Ha’varra to leave and then called Av’Roo.

“Lieutenant,” he pointed to a chair and she sat. “How would you describe today’s dinner?” It was hard for him to read her face, but since she didn’t reply at once he assumed she hesitated. “Be frank, Lieutenant.”

“It was a disaster, sir,” she said.

“How do you feel about the Cardassians?”

“The Cardassians in general or these Cardassians?”

“These and in general.”

“These seem reasonable, unless pushed and accused. I think their reaction was defensive, they felt accused of things by us.”

“You don’t want to tell me they are innocent, do you?” he grinned.

“And what are they guilty of, sir?” she asked, looking at him with her dark purple eyes.

He opened his mouth and then closed it without a word.

“My point exactly, sir. Everyone at the table assumed they are guilty of something, because they are Cardassians. Surely each of them had to commit something terrible, no?” She paused for a moment. “I have checked their names against our database. I haven’t found much, but there are a few interesting things. Glinn Zamarran used to work at the Cardassian Inventory Bureau for years until he was moved to an active duty aboard warship Roumar when the Klingons attacked Cardassia. I didn’t find anything on Ma’Kan, or Ya’val, but I found some information about Gul Karama. He served on Bajor and was a real bastard. This Karama has lower rank and is too young, so I suppose he is either family or this is just surname coincidence, if it’s possible on Cardassia. That way or another I wouldn’t hold him guilty of atrocities committed by someone else, even a member of his family, when he himself was a boy at that time. I also checked that Kapoor. She used to be a Starfleet Lieutenant and was sent to Cardassia as an exchange officer along with another Lieutenant, Maeva Ullmann. Ullmann had returned shortly after, with a report full of Cardassian crimes, but Kapoor stayed there and in spite of her parents’ attempts we couldn’t get her back, especially after the Cardassians isolated themselves from the rest of the Alpha Quadrant. Her parents claimed she was held prisoner by some Cardassian monster, but to me it seems like she made a conscious choice. She serves with them, lives with them, she even married one of them.”

“She seemed to even think like them,” th’Arshar muttered.

“My point is, sir, they are normal people from a foreign geopolitical structure. It’s not our place to judge them and accuse them of anything. I talked to Karama and Kapoor during the dinner. They seemed nice, polite and friendly. They asked me a lot of questions about my people. They answered my questions about theirs. They have told me they have two wonderful children and that she tries to learn to cook Cardassian food for years and the results are still very poor.” Av’Roo’s flexible beak changed its shape as she grinned. “This was one really nice conversation until Jeto called them ‘spoonheads’ and their attitude changed completely. And I don’t blame them.”

Th’Arshar observed the Skorr as she spoke. He had noticed she didn’t have any particular problems with the Cardassians, he had to admire her data collecting approach and checking on their guests and he thought she has just given him a speech which he should have given Jeto and Ha’varra.

“Lieutenant,” he started. “I want you to be the head of the science team. You will be responsible for most of direct contact with the Cardassians as well as most of our work. For your information, Lieutenant Jeto is limited to the Karamazov crew only, so she won’t be able to accompany you in case of additional data collection events.”

“I understand.”

“I would also like you to keep an eye on your team members. If there is any risk that someone might have problems with the Cardassians, remove them from the team.”

“Yes, sir.”

“Questions?” She shook her head. “Dismissed.”
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Old October 27 2010, 11:01 AM   #54
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Re: ST: Shaping a Cardassian - The Shadow of the Order

Cardassian Union Warship Damar
Argaya Sector near the Cardassian Union border
24th day of the month of Lukyut, 532, Cardassian Union Calendar




Glinn Karama freed his body from the armour and sat on a sofa with a heavy sigh. He was frustrated. He had just been scolded for a mild reaction to a heavy slur. All he did was to point out that Jeto had a spoon on her forehead too; he didn’t call her a ‘broken nose’ or a ‘superstitious scum’, or anything else, and his range of insults for Bajorans was quite wide, thanks to his father, so he had a handsome choice of phrases. He chose to use none. He just noted that she insulted also herself. But Zamarran wasn’t impressed.

He felt a soft hand below his chin. His wife stood behind him, leaned over and kissed the top of his head. Then she went around the sofa and sat next to him, tugging one of her legs under her. She too took off her armour.

“Lek for your thoughts,” she said.

Karama just shook his head. He didn’t really want to talk about it.

“Some fish juice?” she asked. He shook his head again. She observed him for a while and then said quietly, “I’m sorry for all this.”

“What?” he looked shocked. “Why do you apologise? What do you apologise for?”

“I don’t know. But I feel like... I feel ashamed by their behaviour.”

Dayita,” he addressed her using her native language – Bengali - word for ‘beloved, wife’, as he usually did when they were alone, grabbed her hand and squeezed. “You shouldn’t feel bad about their behaviour. You didn’t ask them to behave like this.”

“But--”

“No, no ‘buts’.”

She didn’t argue. She leaned back on the sofa and leaned her head on the side of his arm. “Do you think we can work with them?” she asked quietly.

Karama felt a ping in his heart. He loved his wife madly, he appreciated the sacrifice and the choice she had made to stay with him in the Union, but he never wanted her to forget who she was and where she came from. He never expected her to give up who she was and transform into a Cardassian. He wondered if after twenty years of living in a foreign empire he would talk about the Cardassians ‘they’.

Or maybe she just meant ‘they’ as ‘the other crew’.

“I don’t know,” he replied. “I really don’t know.”

She took his hand and played with his fingers. “At first...” she started, sighed and went on,” at first I was so happy. I would see some Federation crew, maybe get some news from my old home. I know the Information Bureau gathers information and informs us, but...”

“But it’s not the same as talking to people.”

“Right. So I wanted to meet them, talk to them, gossip a little. Bring old jokes. But they were so... cold.” She sat and looked in his face. “I wonder if the Federation is always that cold to others. Or only to the Cardassians. I never had that impression when I had been one of them. But it felt so strange to be on the other side, on the receiving side.” She silenced for a moment. “I am not sure I like what I’ve seen today,” she admitted, tears filling her eyes. “I was raised in a place where prejudice and injustice are supposed to be eliminated from people’s hearts. And maybe they are, but only for other members of the Federation. It doesn’t apply to anyone else. That Jeto... the way she was looking at me, the way she was looking at you!” She moved closer to him and nestled her head on his shoulder. He hugged her, leaning his chin on the top of her head.

“I feared it would be difficult for you,” he said softly. “I feared they would treat you badly, because you’d chosen to live with us. I don’t care what they think of me. It doesn’t matter if I did anything or not, they have their opinions anyway. But you don’t deserve to be accused of anything. And you shouldn’t face a choice between them or us.”

“I’ve made that choice.”

“Yes. But I don’t want you to feel like you have to prove your loyalty to me, us or them. And sometimes you would have to make the same choice over and over again. At that dinner... they expected you to be on their side. You tried so hard to stay on ours or at least be neutral.”

“And I failed.”

“I don’t think there was a right thing you could have said. Someone still would be unhappy.”

“The Federation Captain can be unhappy all he wants.”

He knew what she meant. She would go against her own opinion not to anger Zamarran or Brenok. She had to serve on this ship and expressing unwelcome point of view would have to have some consequences.

“What do you think about Legate Damar?” he asked.

“I don’t know what to think,” she said. “I know how the Cardassians see him. How important he is for you. I still hear people saying ‘what Damar would think? What Damar would do?’ when they face a tough choice. But I also remember how it was during the war. He led your people to battle to kill my people. He was ruthless and cruel. If not the Breen he could not have gone to the other side. The Federation doesn’t remember him as a hero. He did the right thing in the end, but before that end he was a ‘bad guy’ for us and for many people still is. You had a proof during that darn dinner tonight.”

“I asked what you think, not what the Federation thinks.”

She silenced. “I don’t know what I think,” she said finally. He growled. “Honestly, I don’t. I know that if he wouldn’t make you switch sides the allied forces would be sooner or later doomed. But does that make everything else right? No, I don’t think so.”

Karama didn’t say anything. He didn’t push, he just accepted her limited answer, even if he wasn’t satisfied with it. He wondered if she never thought about it so she didn’t have an opinion, or just didn’t want to tell him. He knew that she knew that she could tell him honestly. They had had enough of rocky conversations to learn how to deal with their differences, so they could talk openly now.

“I’ll have that fish juice,” he said. “Could you please bring me some?” She got up and went to the replicator. “Are you in the team tomorrow?” he asked.

“Yes. I got the information earlier today,” he returned with two mugs and handed him one with fish juice. He smelled cocoa from hers – he never developed taste for it, but he enjoyed the odour. “Glinn Ya’val, Gil Ma’Kan, Glen Dole and I beam to the vessel. It’s going to be the first time for me to wear a Cardassian EVA suit.”

“Maybe you should ask the Feddies to lend you one of theirs?” he smiled.

“I survived wearing the armour for fifteen years, I can survive an EVA suit for a few hours.”

“Be careful,” he said softly – not meaning EVA suit.

“I will be,” she moved her mug closer to his nose to let him sniff and then sipped on it.

He observed her, noticing a few silver hairs among her black locks and thought that she looked so fragile.



tbc
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Old October 28 2010, 01:26 AM   #55
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: ST: Shaping a Cardassian - The Shadow of the Order

Good...at least th'Arshar is starting to recognize that like Zamarran, his lack of intervention contributed to the problem. That said, I don't think he's very comfortable with the idea of working with the Cardassians.

As for Jeto...I have a hard time agreeing--as tough as her situation is--that she is "not fully responsible" for her behavior. I wonder if maybe what she needs is to appreciate her responsibility for HER actions, instead of a Cardassian soldier's responsibility for HIS actions. I'm glad th'Arshar decided to remove her from the project--and I hope he won't reinstate her. Sometimes facing permanent consequences makes the point that you are responsible for your own actions.

As for Av'Roo, I definitely think she's the most mature member of that crew. I wonder, do you think being a member of a species that probably gets a lot of stares for being "different" has taught her how to deal with and appreciate diversity?

Oh...and the fact that Av'Roo said the words to th'Arshar that he should've said to the other two...it still doesn't bode well as far as the example th'Arshar will set for his crew.

Given Karama's family background...I'd like to know what choices he made to avoid being bigoted. (Also about Karama...I am surprised he STILL could not accept responsibility for his remarks, after the incident with Ullmann, which I thought would've eventually taught him better.)

For Kapoor...is there a warrant out for her arrest? What is it that prevented that from happening? If she stayed without permission, I am surprised she's not being hauled to the brig as a traitor.

I definitely agree with the point about the Federation crew's prejudice. On the other hand, the Cardassians also did it to themselves with that coup--which would just prove to the Federation, from their perspective, that they have not learned how to do anything other than by force. The Cardassians need to recognize that and understand that they are starting from zero.
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Old October 28 2010, 03:05 AM   #56
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Re: ST: Shaping a Cardassian - The Shadow of the Order

Nerys Dukat wrote: View Post
As for Av'Roo, I definitely think she's the most mature member of that crew. I wonder, do you think being a member of a species that probably gets a lot of stares for being "different" has taught her how to deal with and appreciate diversity?
Yes, I think being an outsider gives her a little different perspective. She is a member of the Federation, but she isn't "just another humanoid". She's also too young to have any particular negative personal experiences with the Cardassians, so she doesn't hold any grudges against them.
And I also think she wants to stay as an outsider - in this particular case. She realises she's the most neutral person here and she wants to remain neutral, thus trusted by both sides and make this project happen.

Nerys Dukat wrote: View Post
Given Karama's family background...I'd like to know what choices he made to avoid being bigoted. (Also about Karama...I am surprised he STILL could not accept responsibility for his remarks, after the incident with Ullmann, which I thought would've eventually taught him better.)
I think that he is still too angry to realise that he isn't totally innocent. This all happens shortly after the dinner, the same evening only later, so they all are still under influence of emotions and anger.

As for his choices - he has a father and a mother. What his father is - it should be obvious now. His mother - not to spoil too much of Kapoor story, let's say Karama chose to be like his mother, not his father (whom he truly hates).
Nerys Dukat wrote: View Post
For Kapoor...is there a warrant out for her arrest? What is it that prevented that from happening? If she stayed without permission, I am surprised she's not being hauled to the brig as a traitor.
There isn't a warrant. She stayed there without permission from her parents, but didn't just desert from Starfleet. She resigned her commission. After she was allowed to stay in the Union, she used those 6 months to close as many matters as she could in the Federation.

Her parents and family didn't accept or didn't believe she chose to stay there, so they did all they could to get her back.
Nerys Dukat wrote: View Post
On the other hand, the Cardassians also did it to themselves with that coup--which would just prove to the Federation, from their perspective, that they have not learned how to do anything other than by force. The Cardassians need to recognize that and understand that they are starting from zero.
I'm not sure they care They believe it's their internal matter and what the Federation thinks about it? Not important. One of reasons why they closed their borders - not to listen to others' opinion on how they do their business.

This caused distrust, of course, but I'm not sure the Cardassians realise that. They see that co-operation as one time, temporary "alliance" and they know they can kick the Feds out of it any time. That must cause some arrogance on their part.
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Old October 28 2010, 03:14 AM   #57
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: ST: Shaping a Cardassian - The Shadow of the Order

Gul Spook wrote: View Post
I think that he is still too angry to realise that he isn't totally innocent. This all happens shortly after the dinner, the same evening only later, so they all are still under influence of emotions and anger.
I hope that realization eventually comes...because I think that if he's grown since the other story, it would be fitting if it did.

As for his choices - he has a father and a mother. What his father is - it should be obvious now. His mother - not to spoil too much of Kapoor story, let's say Karama chose to be like his mother, not his father (whom he truly hates).
Gul Karama must have been a terror at home, for his son to come to that opinion instead of copying his nasty attitudes.

There isn't a warrant. She stayed there without permission from her parents, but didn't just desert from Starfleet. She resigned her commission. After she was allowed to stay in the Union, she used those 6 months to close as many matters as she could in the Federation.

Her parents and family didn't accept or didn't believe she chose to stay there, so they did all they could to get her back.
I'm actually kind of surprised Starfleet let her just resign, especially with the coup and the border closing--AND her connection to the gul responsible for the coup. Not to mention the report Ullmann brought back and the behavior she would've described from Karama--the very man that Kapoor ended up marrying. That's why I thought they would not accept her resignation and would figure she was either a traitor or a victim.

I'm not sure they care They believe it's their internal matter and what the Federation thinks about it? Not important. One of reasons why they closed their borders - not to listen to others' opinion on how they do their business.

This caused distrust, of course, but I'm not sure the Cardassians realise that. They see that co-operation as one time, temporary "alliance" and they know they can kick the Feds out of it any time. That must cause some arrogance on their part.
I would say it's arrogance, for sure. But I question...if their attitude is THAT bad, why are they even bothering with this? Why don't they stay isolated forever? Those are definitely questions I find myself asking. What is it about this mission that would make them try something like this, instead of giving the middle finger again?
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Old October 28 2010, 03:25 AM   #58
Gul Re'jal
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Re: ST: Shaping a Cardassian - The Shadow of the Order

Gul Karama must have been a terror at home, for his son to come to that opinion instead of copying his nasty attitudes.
We've got the winner!

You will meet Gul Karama personally, with Kapoor. I'm sure you can't wait..........
I'm actually kind of surprised Starfleet let her just resign, especially with the coup and the border closing--AND her connection to the gul responsible for the coup. Not to mention the report Ullmann brought back and the behavior she would've described from Karama--the very man that Kapoor ended up marrying. That's why I thought they would not accept her resignation and would figure she was either a traitor or a victim.
Those are very good questions. All in good time and in the correct story IF I finally get there

But I question...if their attitude is THAT bad, why are they even bothering with this? Why don't they stay isolated forever? Those are definitely questions I find myself asking. What is it about this mission that would make them try something like this, instead of giving the middle finger again?
You should ask Daset and/or Jarol about this. Send Brenok, she'd tell him the truth
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Old October 28 2010, 03:36 AM   #59
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: ST: Shaping a Cardassian - The Shadow of the Order

Gul Spook wrote: View Post
Gul Karama must have been a terror at home, for his son to come to that opinion instead of copying his nasty attitudes.
We've got the winner!

You will meet Gul Karama personally, with Kapoor. I'm sure you can't wait..........
I hope Kapoor will be safe. I know Gil Karama would do everything he could to protect his fiancée, but still.

But I question...if their attitude is THAT bad, why are they even bothering with this? Why don't they stay isolated forever? Those are definitely questions I find myself asking. What is it about this mission that would make them try something like this, instead of giving the middle finger again?
You should ask Daset and/or Jarol about this. Send Brenok, she'd tell him the truth
And then order him not to share it with the likes of me, I'm sure.
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Old October 28 2010, 03:41 AM   #60
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Re: ST: Shaping a Cardassian - The Shadow of the Order

Nerys Dukat wrote: View Post
I hope Kapoor will be safe. I know Gil Karama would do everything he could to protect his fiancée, but still.
She survived it. Traumatised, but she did. 'Nuff said he never had her face him again.
Nerys Dukat wrote: View Post

And then order him not to share it with the likes of me, I'm sure.
I'll smuggle you to his office and hide you in a dark dark dark corner and you can eavesdrop to their conversation
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