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Old August 29 2010, 09:18 PM   #211
wildstar
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
And the second update, a return to the TOS Enterprise

The beginnings of the Energizer room as seen in "The Alternative Factor".

Just curious. did you base this 3d creation on my illustration I posted back on page 10 of this discussion? The tv episode only? Bit of both?
I've started a new job at an fx studio and have lost track of this thread for the last month or so.
Excellent work by the way!
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Old August 30 2010, 07:35 AM   #212
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

@Mytran - d'oh sorry to hear about your hdd. Never fun

@Wildstar - thanks and congrats on the new job Your diagram helped orientate the red cage area that Lazarus was hiding in but I ended up watching and matching as much as I could directly from the episode.

It was harder than the other parts of the ship as I didn't have much for scale or reference points. I ended up starting with the height of the door frames and Lt Masterson (relative to Kirk).

I wasn't able to derive the shape of the desk so this is a bit of a guess. If anyone happens to have a set diagram that would be awesome

One interesting bit was that the engineering console in the outer room had its height adjusted between scenes. In one it is lower and the other it is higher. I realized this by looking at Masterson's right arm and comparing the two shots. So I'm chalking that console to be adjustable in height.

For grins I added the S1 corridor set as well. When I drop it into the cutaway in the engineering hull I'll be bending/adjusting the curve of the corridor and the walls of the energiser room that were not visible on camera

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Old August 31 2010, 02:02 AM   #213
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

And with a little bit of experimenting I blocked in a layout for the S1 engineering section with the energiser room added in. I did make an effort to line up the M/AM reactor (the big sphere) with the circle at the bottom of the hull

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Old August 31 2010, 02:33 AM   #214
mattpiper
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

The engineering section in the secondary hull is really starting to become a maze, which is perfect.
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Old August 31 2010, 07:24 PM   #215
Mytran
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Agreed - the way you tied these disperate sets together into a mechanical setup that looks believable is great!
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Old August 31 2010, 07:33 PM   #216
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Oh. My. God.
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Old September 1 2010, 06:57 PM   #217
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

USS Mariner wrote: View Post
Oh. My. God.
This.

And I absolutely love the asymmetry.
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Old September 1 2010, 11:26 PM   #218
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Thanks guys

Here is also a potential layout for the S2/3 energiser. I removed the energiser room and made it part of the deck below main engineering.

I'll still need to add in the remainder of the energiser system that distributes into primary hull (somewhere on Deck 7).

Next will probably be the M/AMRC service crawlway from "That Which Survives" and then more hallways and quarters and stuff to fill in

I have no idea where I'm going to put the fuel yet

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Old September 5 2010, 02:01 PM   #219
Warped9
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Just...freaking...WILD!
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Old September 5 2010, 10:10 PM   #220
Bernard Guignard
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Freaking Incredible keep up the great work :tech man:: techman:
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Old September 8 2010, 03:47 PM   #221
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Thanks

Here is a WIP of the M/AM Reaction Chamber Service Crawlway from "That Which Survives". I added the red mesh screen that slides out to cover the opening.

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Old September 9 2010, 04:00 AM   #222
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

Just an FYI, here are some power generation models that I drew up while thinking about the layout of the energizer. I had originally went with Model 1 where the nacelles were part of the warp power generation process but I discarded that idea due to "The Paradise Syndrome" and "Elaan of Troyius".

So, now I'm using Model 2 for now and the assumption is that Model 3 didn't start until "The Undiscovered Country" and continued to TNG.

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Old September 10 2010, 01:43 AM   #223
Albertese
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

I rather like Model 1 for the TMP ship and Model 3 for the TUC and TNG ships. I always figured the TOS model was quite different from the TMP model. It seems like the dialog in TMP suggests that the whole system was radically different from the last one. Some have suggested that the big open cargo bay in the refit was the result of the TOS engine being pulled out and clearing up room. Oh well.

Anyway, I actually love how you're incorporating the TMP stuff into the TOS hull though. It's a direction I wouldn't have thought of.

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Old September 11 2010, 03:53 AM   #224
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

If I may make a suggestion:

I find this entire thread and the work done in it fantastic, but I might caution one about the temptation to over-think the plumbing.

Fact is, the Enterprise in TOS didn't have an intermix shaft -- vertical, horizontal, or any other kind. It just didn't -- it wasn't an idea that was thought up until Phase II and was then carried forward very effectively from TMP on.

But the original ship -- no bloody A, B, C, D, E, J, NX-01, or JJ-Prise -- just didn't have one.

There's every indication that the way the whole thing worked was thusly:



Notice that everything's going on up in the nacelles. That's where the antimatter is located, that's where the M/A-m reaction is taking place, that's where the warp drive is located.

This idea is perfectly consistent with everything Jeffries had to say on the subject. He kept the ship's exterior intentionally streamlined because he knew that in space you'd want to access things from the inside, not the outside. He knew that the engines (however they worked, and it was never specifically pinned-down) would be dangerous and largely uninhabitable.

Lastly, he knew that as cool as it sounds, you don't have antimatter nor the equivalent of millions of nuclear reactors running anywhere near human beings.

All the really dangerous stuff was going on inside the nacelles. The antimatter was there, the Matter/Antimatter reaction was there, the warp drive was there.

Seriously, keeping antimatter anywhere near crew spaces is a recipe for disaster on so many levels. To begin with, people tend to drop stuff. It's not a problem around normal matter, but even a pinprick around antimatter and the ship would be instantaneously annihilated. And what of security? If it's in the nacelles you can naturally limit exposure to sabotage by restricting access through the pylons. Not to mention, by implication a saboteur must be willing to endure whatever dangerous conditions and/or radiations are occurring in the nacelles.

But a big tank of antimatter inside the ship? One good phaser on overload, and the ship's done.

I can't imagine that Jeffries imagined that they kept antimatter in big tanks inside the ship's hull.

Consequently, all the power is being generated in the nacelles. What we saw in Engineering were power distribution, engineering controls, and other ship's subsystems.

It was emphatically not the Matter/Antimatter reactors themselves.

The Engineering sets that we saw were consistent with this idea. There were the huge tubes at the rear, doing something. Dilithium crystals were needed for something, but it was never clear entirely what.

I postulate this: the power generated from a controlled matter/antimatter reaction is so fantastic that it would completely overwhelm any power systems without sending it through the dilithium crystals, first.

In other words, the dilithium crystals are the ship's step-down transformers. Think of the engines as being like current from the power company: all the 120V AC won't do your computer any good without the transformer that steps that down to a tiny DC voltage.

The dilithium crystals -- rather than being directly associated with the M/Am reaction itself -- are instead power regulators. Or the "energizers", to use the generic TOS term.

It even works to some extent with what we saw happen to the ship when she lost crystals: lights would dim, power would be cut, the ship might not have shields ... all because the step-down transformers were blowing up. Sure, you might run the whole ship's systems through a single transformer, but you better be careful or you'll burn it out.

It's just a thought. I realize that this project is to some extent an attempt to make a ship that satisfies the design lineage, and that's fascinating. However, it probably isn't what Jeffries had in mind when designing the ship.

Anyway, take it or leave it, your mileage may vary, comments, questions, and nasty remarks invited.

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Last edited by DakotaSmith; September 11 2010 at 04:21 AM.
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Old September 11 2010, 05:17 AM   #225
Psion
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Re: TOS Enterprise WIP

DakotaSmith, I agree with that interpretation of how the power systems were intended to work, but too many people seem to prefer putting a "warp core" into the old ships. The energy released from the matter/antimatter reactions was so powerful that it shown through the otherwise opaque endcaps like Christmas lights through plastic. Or the endcaps were made of a material that shifted dangerous, high frequency electromagnetic radiation down to visible light to reduce the reactor's risk to crew in the primary hull. And the intention seems obvious when you look at the refit. The reactor is now housed in the belly of the ship itself, and those glowing domes are gone. Instead, the closest thing to them is now located on the primary hull, at the top of the linear intermix shaft. And suddenly engineering crew are running around with radiation suits on!

Honestly, right up until Star Trek: The Motion Picture, I think the intent was the original ship put the reactors out on the pods until the refit. But some time after that movie, probably around the time of The Next Generation, the idea crept in that those domes were Bussard collectors and every starship, including those from the 23rd century, had to have a warp core in the ship's bowels. All the later artwork shows the domes as Bussard collectors -- including the upcoming Haynes book.

You're gonna have a tough time arguing for that these days. I support you, but you'll have a better chance convincing folks the last Star Trek film was a lousy movie. The only place I'd argue is that dilithium crystals were obviously needed to use warp drive, too. Your diagram would indicate that even without crystals, the ship could initiate warp, but I believe the original show directly contradicts that in several episodes.
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