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Old August 31 2010, 12:00 PM   #196
I am not Spock
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Location: Australia
Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

^Oooh, that would have been cool. Rather than creating a new character, Justine; Kate playing that role in season three would have been fantastic!
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Old August 31 2010, 04:53 PM   #197
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Mal wrote: View Post
saturn5 wrote: View Post
COUPLET

Missing scenes
Legend has it there was supposed to be a scene where Angel comes across Kate Lochley working as a whore at the brothel (saving up for her new identity as an assistant DA in New York?) but much like the guy chained to the wall she declines to be 'rescued'. You know what they say about hookers/strippers and their daddy issues? Personally I think that sounds more like wishful thinking for some folks at the old Bronze forum, much like the Dr Who 'Amy Pond kissogram/stripper?' debate, I couldn't imagine Elizabeth Rohm coming back from L&O to film it.
Aside from the casting issues, why doesn't Angel ever check up on Kate, the way he does with Faith?

You'd think that after you saved someone's life by entering their home uninvited, such a miracle might, I don't know, tell you that you two should probably keep in touch? Even an off-screen "oh, I'm 10 minutes late cause I just swung by to check up on Kate," would have been fine. Angel handles so many of his off-screen Buffy adventures that way.

But we never hear a peep about Kate again. Lilah mentions Lindsey every now and then. Even poor Doyle gets a shout out from time to time. Why no love for Kate?

Personally I think it's simply that Kate has such a nice send off, she's no longer part of the fight. Until season 6 of course

LOYALTY
The Good;
Really is Wes' ep and he's put through the wringer here. Or so we think, it's nothing compared to what he's going to face...

The Bad;
Holtz's spy seems to learn a lot about AI very quickly. Why doesn't Holtz just continue to work with Sahjhan? How can Lilah be so confident in betraying WR&H, what about the mindreaders? Or do they not apply over a certain level of promotion?

Best line:
Gunn; (of ice hockey) "You do realise this is the whitest sport known to man?" (obviously never seen synchronised swimming)

Jeez, how did they get away with that?

Apocalypses: 5

Angel Cliches

Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
We think Holtz will possibly kill Aubrey for failing him but again he shows great understanding. It's no wonder he commands respect amongst his people so easily (a mirror image of Wes in command?)

In disguise; 8

DB get's his shirt off; 12

Cordy's tatt; 10 no because no Cordy at all for the first time in 3 seasons

Cheap Angel; 9

Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 11
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 3
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 11
Angel: 14
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 1
Lorne; 3

Kills: 2 vamps for Gunn and Fred nails her first
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 39 vamps, 55 and 1/2 demons, 7 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 12 demons+3 vamps, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 10 vamps+ 9 demons.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 1 vamp

Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 8

Characters killed:
46

Recurring characters killed;
8;

Total number of Angel Investigations:
7, Angel, Cordy, Wes, Gunn, Fred, Lorne and Groo

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 11
Wes; 1

Packing heat;
Wes; 5
Doyle; 1
Angel; 1
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Going to add Groo to CC's list and Fred and Gunn to each other
Cordy: 4 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 2; Virginia and the bleached blonde
Gunn; 1 Fred
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Lilah turns a guy down at the bar.

Captain Subtext;
Wes and Angel really like a gay couple now.

Know the face, different character; 4

Parking garages;
5,

Guantanamo Bay;

Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony

Questions and observations;
Gunn empathises with Audrey after she talks of killing her son. So does Angel but his words have extra resonance for Wes. Holtz actually shows considerable understanding of AI and Angel also observes that he considers Holtz a good man and justified in his need for vengence.
Lilah talking to her mum is heartbreaking. A staple of fanfic is that no matter what goes wrong for AI Lilah's mum dies and without the need to support her any more she decides to switch sides and help the good guys. How do they twig Aubrey? Has Lorne told them that Holtz is recruiting people like her? Or did Angel's vamp senses simply smell Holtz's scent off her? All the stuff between Lilah and Sahjhan is hilarious. Angel memorised CC's credit card number but in fairness he has given her a big roll of cash for her holiday.
Marks out of 10; 7/10
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Old August 31 2010, 11:49 PM   #198
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

saturn5 wrote: View Post
LOYALTY

Questions and observations
Lilah talking to her mum is heartbreaking.
As David Brin might say, boo-fucking-who:

that's exactly the lesson taught by "Return of the Jedi," wherein Darth Vader is forgiven all his sins, because he saved the life of his own son
Lilah is stone-cold evil. Who cares if she has a mom? You know who else had a mom?
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Old September 1 2010, 09:22 AM   #199
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Lilah isn't pure evil as the events of season 4 will prove. But we'll talk about that when we come to it. Lilah and Wes' relationship with her is one of my favourite aspects of the show. Redemption a big theme in the Buffyverse

SLEEP TIGHT

The Good;
The tragedy of Wesley Wyndham Price, it's a powerful 40 minutes, the rug well and truly pulled out from under the viewers feet.

The Bad;
Kim's demon transformation and the Rathers generally look stupid but it is effective. Exactly how much of Connor's blood does Lilah have to lace Angel's with? Surely Holtz and Justine should go a little farther than Utah to avoid Angel? (it's a cliche of American fiction that people who go on the run for some reason seldom go outside the US?)

Best line:
Wes; "You work for a man who you think is noble and good. I respect that but he's not. I work for a vampire who in fact is noble and good. Quirky but there it is"

Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Justine all busted up then SLITTING WES' THROAT!

Apocalypses: 5

Angel Cliches

Inverting the Hollywood cliche;

In disguise; 8

DB get's his shirt off; 12

Cordy's tatt; 10

Cheap Angel; 9

Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 11
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 3
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out: Lorne by Wes
Cordy: 11
Angel: 14
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 1
Lorne; 4

Kills: 1 demon for Gunn and 2 for Angel
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 39 vamps, 57 and 1/2 demons, 7 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 12 demons+3 vamps, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 10 vamps+ 10 demons.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 1 vamp

Fang Gang go evil: no but Angel comes damn close when he tears up the Rathers
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 8

Characters killed:
46

Recurring characters killed;
8;

Total number of Angel Investigations:
7, Angel, Cordy, Wes, Gunn, Fred, Lorne and Groo

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 11
Wes; 1

Packing heat; Wes has a pistol, possibly the same one he took from the collector in 'Offspring'. Angel takes a sub-machine gun from Lilah's men and threatens them with it
Wes; 6
Doyle; 1
Angel; 2
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 4 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 2; Virginia and the bleached blonde
Gunn; 1 Fred
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Gorgeous but skanky (is there any other kind?) groupies gyrating to the bands appalling music. Looks like Angel was right, musicians get the chicks. The bandleader describes Fred as a hottie and bags 'first ride'. Love Lilah's cat's miaow. Justine and Holtz extremely abusive and twisted relationship. Lilah asks Sahjhan did Angel 'boink his demon bride' and describes him as impotent?

Captain Subtext;

Know the face, different character; 4

Parking garages; no, Angel stalks Lilah in her bar nowadays
5,

Guantanamo Bay;
Angel breaks the arms of Lilah's assistant. Angel tortures' Holtz's people to find Connor.

Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony

Questions and observations;
Lorne tells Connor the story about The Rat Pack, wonder if Angel ever told him he knew them? Angel talks about hell with Nixon and Britney Spears. Bit unkind to both of them. Angel is a fan of The Flying Nun presumably during the Manilow years, he must have watched a lot of daytime TV in his time (although maybe that goes without saying?). Note Angel would rather Connor would be with Holtz whom he knows would care for him than Lilah who would disect him. Also Holtz pushes Justine aside to stop her following him into hell. What happened to Linwood's policy of leaving Connor alone?
Marks out of 10; 7/10 humdrum ep until the devestating ending
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Old September 2 2010, 09:11 AM   #200
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

FORGIVING

The Good;
Some great acting from Amy Acker as Fred is horrified that Connor has been lost to a portal, just as she was. The little girl in the White Room is a really creepy little moppet.

The Bad;
Gunn and the orderlies seem to overpower Angel at the hospital very easily (although I guess that settles the whole question of Angelus' confrontation with Xander in 'Killed by death'. Thinking back on the cops/security guards in that scene would probably have had tasers which is weapon that seems to affect vamps a lot. Although bullets are no joke to them either)

Best line:
Angel; (heartbroken) "Cordy will be back soon, with presents for Connor"

Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Lilah cutting her hand just like Darla, the whole 'women cope better with pain' idea certainly gets a lot of mileage in Joss's shows. Angel meanwhile prepares to stick a needle in Linwood's eye. Angel attempts to smother Wes and is quite prepared to kill Lilah to get his son back. Justine is beaten to a pulp, so much so that even Gunn feels sorry for her. Fred using the hot coals against Sahjhan is pretty damn ruthless.

Apocalypses: 5

Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche; we think Angel will forgive Wes after he's so compassionate to the poor guy at the accident but oh boy he doesn't! Sahjahn mocks the standard Hollywood buddy-cop thriller. AI are getting hammered by Sahjahn but get saved by Justine?

In disguise; 8

DB get's his shirt off; 12

Cordy's tatt;

Cheap Angel; 9

Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 11
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 3
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 11
Angel: 14
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 1
Lorne; 4

Kills:
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 39 vamps, 57 and 1/2 demons, 7 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 12 demons+3 vamps, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 10 vamps+ 10 demons.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 1 vamp

Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 8

Characters killed:
46

Recurring characters killed;
8;

Total number of Angel Investigations:
7, Angel, Cordy, Wes, Gunn, Fred, Lorne and Groo

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 11
Wes; 1

Packing heat; Gunn refers to the shotgun Wes keeps that we saw in Epiphany
Wes; 6
Doyle; 1
Angel; 2
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 4 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 2; Virginia and the bleached blonde
Gunn; 1 Fred
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Angel tell Justine he isn't her boyfriend and she should find someone else to smack her around.

Captain Subtext;
Sahjhan once again demonstrates his insecurity about his masculinity, insisting he flitted in a 'manly way'

Know the face, different character; 4

Parking garages;
5,

Guantanamo Bay;
Linwood get's kidnapped and threatened with torture

Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony

Questions and observations;
Shouldn't Linwood know who Lorne is? Surely Lorne's concern for humans and disregard for 'slimy demons' is hypocritical. Like any good Watcher Wes keeps comprehensive diaries. Why do people always cut the palm of their hands in films? Surely that's one of the most sensitive parts?
Marks out of 10; 8/10 here comes the emotional pain but it's SUPREMELY well done.
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Old September 2 2010, 09:27 PM   #201
Mal
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

saturn5 wrote: View Post
FORGIVING
Best line
Angel; (heartbroken) "Cordy will be back soon, with presents for Connor"
What a great line!

Angel's feelings are very similar to Fred's. For Angel, Connor won't really be lost through a portal to a hell-dimension until Cody knows. For Fred, her time on the other side of the portal wasn't completely real until she came face-to-face with her parents.


saturn5 wrote: View Post
Angel meanwhile prepares to stick a needle in Linwood's eye.
Joss did many great things in the course of Angel, and he rarely drops the ball as far as characters are concerned (as one of saturn5's earlier reviews said: there are no minor characters in Joss' 'verse).

But Linwood is just crap.

Actually - with all due respect to Daniel Dae Kim and Lilah the evil bitch - without Lindsey McDonald and Holland Manners, W&H is a pretty lame place. No wonder the beast will have no problems trashing the place in a little while.


saturn5 wrote: View Post
Angel attempts to smother Wes

here comes the emotional pain but it's SUPREMELY well done.
I love how it takes just so fucking long for Wes to work himself back from betraying Angel. More than a season, really. Even saving Angel from the bottom of the ocean isn't enough.

That's one area where B5 really sucked. Garibaldi is back with the gang in no time. We never see whether or not Lennier works his way back into Sheridan's graces (although probably not). But the point is, unlike the the long agonizing building up to Wes' betrayal (for a faked prophesy, no less!), we get very little (other than jealousy) as to Lennier.
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Old September 3 2010, 11:28 AM   #202
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

I think the whole point of Linwood is that he's Holland Manners without the class, he's a weasel. Equally when we see Gavin kowtowing to Lilah later it's no wonder the senior partners picked Lilah

DOUBLE OR NOTHING
 
The Good;
The Groo and CC back which is marvellous. Lovely little scene with CC and Angel and also a lovely little scene of Pylean kinship between Lorne and the Groo over the 'ritual of the bereaved'. Wonderful final confrontation too, watched this ep first at a convention and people cheered when Angel delivers his line

The Bad;
The angry young man Gunn stuff is not so good. The cockney demon debt collector is deeply stupid, Guy Ritchie has a lot to answer for. When he first sees Caritas Gunn comments he's never seen anything like it but we find here he has (unless he's never seen karoke before?). Angel could smell that Wes has had sex with a bleached blonde back in season 2 but is unaware that Gunn and Fred have been doing the funky monkey all this time?

Best line:
Angel; "Am I the only one who owes this guy money?"

Jeez, how did they get away with that?
CC staking the guy's hand to the table. Gunn being so mean when breaking up with Fred is also hard to watch as is the guy getting his soul removed by Jenoff. Jenoff's death is not half as yucky as his 'rebirth'.

Apocalypses: 5

Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche; Angel loses the card game and actually cheats, breaking his word to the guy. We think Fred is going to be more sympathectic towards Wes but she rejects him.

In disguise; 8

DB get's his shirt off; 12

Cordy's tatt; 10

Cheap Angel; 9

Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 11
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 3
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 11
Angel: 14
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 1
Lorne; 3

Kills: Gunn kills a skench demon
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 39 vamps, 57 and 1/2 demons, 7 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 12 demons+3 vamps, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 10 vamps+ 11 demons.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 1 vamp

Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 8

Characters killed:
46

Recurring characters killed;
8;

Total number of Angel Investigations:
6, Angel, Cordy, Gunn, Fred, Lorne and Groo

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 11
Wes; 1

Packing heat;
Wes; 6
Doyle; 1
Angel; 2
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 4 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 2; Virginia and the bleached blonde
Gunn; 1 Fred
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
The demon fancies Fred, again weird, shouldn't demons like other demons? Groo comments Gunn is fortunate to have a woman such as Fred to 'take care of his weapon'.

Captain Subtext;

Know the face, different character; 4

Parking garages;
5,

Guantanamo Bay;

Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony

Questions and observations;
Blonde Cordy! Angel seems unaware that Fred and Gunn were dating, I thought he overheard them in 'Waiting in the Wings' or at least smelled them on one another. No leprechauns in the Angelverse although considering how they appeared on Charmed maybe we should be grateful. Wes coming home to an empty flat is a real killer. Angel refers to the AI gang as family.
Marks out of 10; 6/10, fun but nothing special
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Old September 4 2010, 04:13 PM   #203
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

 
THE PRICE
The Good;
Very much an 'in the bottle episode'. Do like Fred drinking the snowglobe.
The Bad;
I think the Schlucks (or however you spell it) are deeply stupid, this doesn't really work for me
Best line:
Cordy; "We have a pool?"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
The poor guy crumbling. Also Lilah's assertion that when a co-worker at WR&H pats you on the back you should check to feel for the knife.
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cordy's tatt; 10
Cheap Angel; 9
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 11
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 3
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 11
Angel: 14
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 1
Lorne; 3
Kills:
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 39 vamps, 57 and 1/2 demons, 7 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 12 demons+3 vamps, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 10 vamps+ 11 demons.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 1 vamp
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang: schluck possessed Fred
Cordy: 2
Angel: 8
Fred; 1

Characters killed: the poor guy who get's dusted
46
Recurring characters killed;
8;
Total number of Angel Investigations: Wes makes his first moves towards returning back to the fold
6, Angel, Cordy, Gunn, Fred, Lorne and Groo

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 11
Wes; 1
Packing heat;
Wes; 6
Doyle; 1
Angel; 2
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 4 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 2; Virginia and the bleached blonde
Gunn; 1 Fred
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Depending on how much you're into the Alien mythology you could interpret the Schlucks possessing Fred and the guy as metaphorical rape. CC describes Groo as 'sexy, well-built, go-all-night'
Captain Subtext;
Groo starting to pick up on CC's feelings for Angel.
Know the face, different character; 4
Parking garages;
5,
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
Questions and observations;
Drawing from Alien, Invasion of the Bodysnatchers and The Thing a great deal. Our first appearance of grown up Connor for good or ill. Love Lilah's tarantula, once asked Stephanie Romanov at a convention did she have a problem with that scene but she said no, they're 'furry like a kitten'? Groo's mother was called Pomegranate? 'Puppy-dog' is how CC describes the Groo and how she described Jesse in the first ep of Buffy. Gunn once again demonstrates his loathing of creepy-crawlies. 'Thaunmogenisis' is also the term used for the demon created when Buffy was ressurected. Love Lorne's hat. Note when Fred drinks from from the snowglobe she cuts her lip a little. Powerful scene between Gunn and Wes. First real signs of CC's greater power. Lorne uses the traditional Buffyverse line "Standing right here".
Marks out of 10; 5/10 not one of my favourites
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Old September 5 2010, 01:48 PM   #204
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

 
 
A NEW WORLD

The Good;
Anthony Starke who plays Tyke also played Ezra in the TV version of the Magnificent Seven, my favourite character, very Doc Holliday (he's also Sanchez's assistant Truman Lodge in the Bond film Licence to Kill). Love the way you can see Gunn and Groo just automatically reacting to Connors attack without a moments hesitation. Love Myrna too.

The Bad;
Connor jumping on the bus looks very fake. The shootout with the police looks like it belongs in the Matrix films as indeed does the initial confrontation at the Hyperion. Also, where is the body of the beastie that proceeded Connor through the rift? Holtz's makeup also isn't too good. CC's blood seems almost translucent which it wouldn't be unless that's a side effect of her half demon side. You can see Angel's shoulder reflected in the door when he tries to follow Conor outside

Best line:
Tyke; (pointing to where his ear used to be) "You'll have to speak up because I DON'T HEAR SO GOOD!"
just beating;
Fred; "Poor Connor he must be so scared"
Gunn; "Yeah he looked real scared when he was KICKING MY ASS!" (once again Gunn is AI's straight man)

Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Sunny dead in the bathtub with the needle in her arm. Such realistic depictions of death and suffering always more disturbing than demons and vampires. Connor cutting Tyke's ear off! (an effect they loved so much the re-used it in the Firefly ep 'War Stories')

Apocalypses: 5

Angel Cliches

Inverting the Hollywood cliche;

In disguise; 8

DB get's his shirt off; 12

Cordy's tatt; 10

Cheap Angel; 9

Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 11
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 3
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out: Cordy and Groo
Cordy: 12
Angel: 14
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 1
Lorne; 3
Groo; 1

Kills: none but Connor must be quite the boy to fight off Angel, Gunn and Groo!?
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 39 vamps, 57 and 1/2 demons, 7 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 12 demons+3 vamps, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 10 vamps+ 11 demons.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 1 vamp

Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 8
Fred; 1

Characters killed: Sunny ODs.
47

Recurring characters killed;
8;

Total number of Angel Investigations:
6, Angel, Cordy, Gunn, Fred, Lorne and Groo

Angel Investigations shot: Angel by the police in the motel shootout
Angel: 12
Wes; 1

Packing heat;
Wes; 6
Doyle; 1
Angel; 2
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 4 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 2; Virginia and the bleached blonde
Gunn; 1 Fred
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Tyke appears to be attempting to force Sunny to have sex with him in return for drugs. Connor is fascinated by a bra he finds at the squat. The Groo once spent 11 days standing stock still to avoid being mated with by a herd of Burrbeasts. He implies that he was a virgin before him and Cordy. Connor strips before Sunny and they kiss.

Captain Subtext;
Sunny warns him not to play 'teddy bear in the hole' with another of the residents.

Know the face, different character; 4

Parking garages;
5,

Guantanamo Bay;

Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony

Questions and observations;
When does Connor reload his arm cannon, it has 3 tubes but he fires four shots? Note Wes keeps a couple of swords in the umbrella stand by his door. It's an interesting comparison between Groo and Riley, both love their sweethearts but realise they're not the ones for them so leave. However whilst Riley was pretty much agony to watch the Groo does it much more subtly and with dignity (maybe the writers learned their lesson?). The LAPD at the crime scene seem remarkably forthcoming to Gunn, maybe they're friends of Kate's? Connor intends to find Tyke from his scent, has he inherited his parents vamp senses? Angel says that Stephen isn't an Irish name, true but in Southern Ireland Boxing Day is also known as St Stephen's Day.
Marks out of 10; 7/10, pretty good
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Old September 5 2010, 02:54 PM   #205
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

saturn5 wrote: View Post
 
The Bad;
The shootout with the police looks like it belongs in the Matrix films as indeed does the initial confrontation at the Hyperion.
You didn't like that? I thought the slow mo fight at the Hyperion was pretty nifty. My fave fight scene in all of Angel though is the rooftop fight with the Beast in s4's 'Apocalypse, Nowish'. Now that was awesome.
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Old September 5 2010, 08:40 PM   #206
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

I am not Spock wrote: View Post
saturn5 wrote: View Post
 
The Bad;
The shootout with the police looks like it belongs in the Matrix films as indeed does the initial confrontation at the Hyperion.
You didn't like that? I thought the slow mo fight at the Hyperion was pretty nifty. My fave fight scene in all of Angel though is the rooftop fight with the Beast in s4's 'Apocalypse, Nowish'. Now that was awesome.
Oh I agree but it just seemed gratuitous
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Old September 6 2010, 02:47 PM   #207
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

BENEDICTION
 
The Good;
The return of Justine but this ep will always be remembered for the incredible scenes between Angel and Holtz. They strike you as a pair of weary emotional boxers slugging it out to the last (Khan and Kirk?). I especially like the moment where Angel rages at Holtz for stealing his son and Holtz points out that he kept Angel's son alive whilst Angel(us) killed his.

The Bad;
Angel just leaves a set of vamps lying on the floor of the club.

Best line:
Justine; "How did you survive?"
Holtz; "My hatred kept us alive" HOOOOoooooooooo!
also like;
Fred; "He's survived an unspeakable hell dimension. Who hasn't? It doesn't mean you can leave him on the streets of LA"

Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Holtz forcing Justine to stab him with the icepick

Apocalypses: 5

Angel Cliches

Inverting the Hollywood cliche;

In disguise; 8

DB get's his shirt off; 12

Cordy's tatt; 10

Cheap Angel; 9

Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 11
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 3
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 12
Angel: 14
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 1
Lorne; 3
Groo; 1

Kills: 2 vamps for Angel. 2 for Connor as well and we can add in the demon he killed in The Price
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 41 vamps, 57 and 1/2 demons, 7 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 12 demons+3 vamps, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 10 vamps+ 11 demons.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 1 vamp
Connor; 2 vamps and one demon

Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 8
Fred; 1

Characters killed:
46

Recurring characters killed;
8;

Total number of Angel Investigations:
6, Angel, Cordy, Gunn, Fred, Lorne and Groo

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 12
Wes; 1

Packing heat;
Wes; 6
Doyle; 1
Angel; 2
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 4 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 2; Virginia and the bleached blonde
Gunn; 1 Fred
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
According to Fred's gizmo Connor is 'Hot'. Gunn dislikes the idea of tracking Angel's teenage son's 'emissions'.

Captain Subtext;
Groo and Lorne, their scene together very reminiscent of a scene in season 5 Buffy with Xander and Riley at the magic shop. But the Groo does it SOOOOO much better than Riley does "If she asks" Awwwwww!

Know the face, different character; 4

Parking garages;
5,

Guantanamo Bay;

Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony

Questions and observations;
One thing I've noticed in working my way through Buffy season 6 and Angel season 3 is that I keep leaping ahead wanting to watch more and more Angel and not Buffy. Note that the PTB's decide to save Justine through CC's vision. Holtz is quite religious believing god gave him Connor. You genuinely get the impression that they do love each other. Interestingly Fred refers to 'being at the bottom of the ocean looking upwards'. Does Holtz go to hell? Is he an evil man? The only evil thing I can think off he does is slitting Wes' throat but that's Justine and we've no idea that he even knew about it.
Marks out of 10; 8/10, an ep of great emotional depth and poignancy
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Old September 7 2010, 10:07 AM   #208
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

TOMORROW
 
The Good;
The ending is amazing, simultaneously heartrending and (literally) uplifting. Also love the touching Groo leaving scene and Fred's vamp impression.

The Bad;
The drive in film is Courage Under Fire which was brought out to little acclaim in 1996 so I'm not sure why it should be being shown again? How does CC drink the mockna and not stain her magnificent teeth?

Best line:
Lilah; "Mind if I join you?"
Wes; "On many levels and with great intensity"

Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Connor cuts the head off Holtz's corpse. Wes tells Lilah post sex 'I wasn't even thinking of you when you were here', god, talk about the most heartless post-sex line EVER! And just for a second the mask slips and you can see the hurt in Lilah's eyes.

Apocalypses: 5

Angel Cliches

Inverting the Hollywood cliche;

In disguise; 8

DB get's his shirt off; 12

Cordy's tatt; 10

Cheap Angel; 10 Angel thinks 50 cents is enough for a teenagers allowance. Even CC observes that he's 'tight with a buck'.

Fang Gang in bondage: Angel chained and in a box
Cordy: 5
Angel: 12
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 3
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out: Angel is tasered into unconsciousness
Cordy: 12
Angel: 15
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 1
Lorne; 3
Groo; 1

Kills:
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 41 vamps, 57 and 1/2 demons, 7 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 12 demons+3 vamps, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 10 vamps+ 11 demons.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 1 vamp
Connor; 2 vamps and 1 demon

Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 8
Fred; 1

Characters killed:
46

Recurring characters killed;
8;

Total number of Angel Investigations: Byebye Groo who unfortunately we'll never see again on the show although he shall return in the comics. I heard one rumour that in season 5 Harmony would have a 'Naked Musclely Hunks' calender and Fred would look at it and recognise one of the models as the Groo. Byebye Angel who's taking a dip at the bottom of the ocean, byebye CC who's taking a break as a celestial being and byebye Lorne who's off to Vegas. This officially leaves AI as Gunn, Fred and Connor, back to the same number as in the first episode of the show.
3, Gunn, Fred, Connor

Angel Investigations shot: no but Angel tasered again, it seems to be a highly effective weapon against vamps.
Angel: 11
Wes; 1

Packing heat;
Wes; 6
Doyle; 1
Angel; 2
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Lilah and Wes
Cordy: 4 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah
Gunn; 1 Fred
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Lilah and Wes, once again Wes is violent as hell with Lilah yet this seems to turn her on and she ends up having sex with him. She seems intirgued to know what it's like to have your throat cut (one day she'll find out) Groo offers to rub CC's shlugtee which is actually Pylean for neck but that's not what she thinks he means. CC and Angel 'try out bedrooms' in the Hyperion. CC refuse to tell Connor the facts of life as Angel requests but one day she will graphically 'fill in the blanks for him'. Connor comments on CC's beauty.

Captain Subtext;
Lilah thinks Fred is cute.

Know the face, different character; 4

Parking garages;
5,

Guantanamo Bay;

Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony

What the fanficcers thought; whatever happens to the Scoobs/AI the Groo always shows up to save everyone

Questions and observations;
How does Lorne get on a commercial flight even with his fedora disguise? Connor refers to Holtz's home as having white cliffs which implies he's from Dover. Sorry to say goodbye to the Groo, your heart breaks for him but he does the honourable thing with dignity like the hero he is. CC looks at a season 1 pic of her, Wes and Angel demonstrating just how much things have changed (not least her hair). The scene where CC talks to an image of herself is very reminiscent of the scene in Xena where Aphrodite chats to her own reflection in the mirror. Connor refers to Angel as the Prince of Lies who Angel will encounter in 'Why we fight' (also underwater). Note when CC and Angel are finally getting together she's dyed her hair blonde, just like Darla and Buffy.
Well, Joss and co not exactly scared to shake things up and leave us with a hell of a cliffhanger! Hugely powerful ep, so many aspects to praise.
Marks out of 10; 9/10
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Old September 8 2010, 07:09 AM   #209
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

The demon rises up to heaven while the Angel sinks into hell. Quite poetic.

Also, CC's vision of herself is actually a flash forward to her conversation with Skip, in case that wasn't clear.
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Old September 8 2010, 11:28 AM   #210
saturn5
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Re: Angel ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
The demon rises up to heaven while the Angel sinks into hell. Quite poetic.

Also, CC's vision of herself is actually a flash forward to her conversation with Skip, in case that wasn't clear.
That's a wonderful way of putting it, I never thought of it like that.


DEEP DOWN
 
The Good;
Wonderful to see Fred and Gunn as Connor's surrogate parents during the summer, would love to see that in the comics sometime. Love Fred's attempts to speak 'street' especially Gunn's little look when she says 'Word'.
The Bad;
The vamp Fred and Gunn confront gives them the info they want then tries to attack them anyway, please!
Best line:
Gunn; "2 coats of polish"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Fred is pretty vicious with the old taser! Also Linwood get's 'headhunted' WR&H style
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cordy's tatt; 10
Cheap Angel;
Fang Gang in bondage: Connor tied to the chair
Cordy: 5
Angel: 12
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 3
Fred; 2
Connor; 1

Fang gang knocked out: Connor and Fred
Cordy: 12
Angel: 15
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 1
Lorne; 3
Groo; 1
Fred; 1
Connor; 1
Kills: 2 vamps for Fred, 1 for Gunn and 2 for Connor
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 41 vamps, 57 and 1/2 demons, 7 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 12 demons+3 vamps, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 11 demons.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamps
Connor; 4 vamps and 1 demon
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 8
Fred; 1

Characters killed:
46
Recurring characters killed;
8;
Total number of Angel Investigations:3
Gunn, Angel and Fred

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 11
Wes; 1
Packing heat;
Wes; 6
Doyle; 1
Angel; 2
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Lilah and Wes
Cordy: 4 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah plus possibly Justine?
Gunn; 1 Fred
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Lilah appears to wear no bra. Wes keeps Justine as a slave girl, do they have sex? Lorne says give fluffy enough love, Fred wonders does he mean Gunn or some part of her?
Captain Subtext;
Fred flatters Gunn that he's the Alpha male of AI. Despite being his slave Wes won't make Justine feed Angel from herself, he knows that would cross the line after losing her sister. When Angel get's back Gunn tells Connor to stand by for his spanking. Connor warns the gang that Angel will turn on them which he will.
Goodbye to Justine who will change her identity, move to San Francisco and embrace her inner lesbian.
Know the face, different character; 4
Parking garages;
5,
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
What the fanficcers thought;
Read a pretty good one once where Justine discovers she's pregnant with Wes' twins and goes off to rebuild her life, changing her identity, moving to San Francisco and becoming a lesbian. http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3071303/...ned_to_Justine
Questions and observations;
Hell of a long teaser, if you hadn't been following the series you'd be utterly lost. Note that whilst Wes is back at the AI dinner table there's no Groo? AI are almost broke, either Angel must subsidise the agency with his private income or they must spend all their time looking for Angel and CC. Vamps can exist indefinitely without blood but they go mad with hunger. Lilah mentions Mr Subarto, did she actually meet a senior partner? Do Buffy and co know about Angel's disappearance? Oddly this summer is probably the best time Connor ever has, he has 2 loving parents and a fairly normal life (as normal as it can be working for AI)
Marks out of 10; 7/10
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