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Old August 27 2010, 03:58 PM   #136
saturn5
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Thanks everyone, you're too kind. I'm going to review Dollhouse s2 and then that'll be it.

As for the fanfic/fetish stuff no I'm not 'into it' per se but I do find it fascinating, what people really feel free to confess to behind the anonymity of the internet. As part of my degree we read a psychologist called Brett Khar who writes on sexual fantasies (his book is called 'Who's been sleeping in your head?') and he actually has websites. http://www.brettkahr.com/ & www.sexualfantasyproject.com for people to post their sexual fantasies on. He should have saved himself the trouble and just read some internet adultfic. I put the Kaylee/Jubal stuff in Kiny Dinky as we don't know if anything actually happened and it seemed the best place for it, maybe I should have put it in Jeez?

I'd like to accept your praise for the formatting but truth be told I've no idea what happened

I have to confess what made me want to do this in the first place was the incredible fandom Firefly has for such a shortlived series, it intrigued me

SERENITY; the movie

The good;
Obviously benefits from a greater budget especially in the lab scenes. Cool opening tracking shot. Love River and Zoe trading their little look during the robbery and love River's goggles. Stonking great spaceship battles in a series where we haven't seen that before. The scene where they slip through the Reaver fleet is truly creepy.

The bad;

Mal's getting an innoculation at the start. Never seen that before but it neatly informs us that Simon is a doctor. Disappointing that we get no Saffron or Jubal Early but you can't have everything.

Best line;
Mal; "If I'm not back in an hour come rescue me"
Zoe; "And risk MY ship?"
plus
Simon; (to River who has just survived a Reaver attack, massive gunfight and crash) "Are you ok?"
River; "I swallowed a bug"
and
Mal; "You want to be in charge?"
Jayne; "Yeah"
Mal; "Well...you can't!"

Packing heat
;
Serenity finally gets some exterior arnament in the form of Book's Bofors like flak-gun. Maybe the Alliance allowed private citizens to own what weapons they like but forbade the arming of ships themselves? Inara uses some form of Companion bow and arrow, as Joss observes, very Wonder Woman. Jayne doesn't use Vera instead having an H+K G36 and his grenades. Mal has an Armalite AR-18 which he later gives to Zoe, most other crew use MP5Ks plus Zoe's Mossberg shotgun.

Kinky dinky
;
River voyeuristically watches her brother and Kaylee having sex. Maybe the subtexters did have a point? Kaylee appears to have been using a self-pleasuring device which horrifies Mal (who seems to like to think of Kaylee almost as his virgin daughter) but intrigues Jayne. The crew still like to eavesdrop on Mal and Inara for gossip/thrills. Mal cross dresses again, disguising himself in a companion's dress and may have gone through Inara's clothes (for her scent or to try them on?)
 
Notches on the Serenity bedpost; Simon and Kaylee, at last

Inarra;3+1 possible, Atherton.
Wash; 1-the missus
Zoe; 1-the hubby
Kaylee;2-Bester, Simon
Jayne; 1-at least 1 Heart of Gold whore and possibly many others
Mal; 1-Nandi
Simon; 1-Kaylee


Capt subtext
;
Note River actually sniffs Inara's bed in Kaylee's video. Mal considers Fanty 'pretty'.

How'd they get away with that?
All and everything the Reavers do! The slow sword impalement is also nasty as is desecrating the dead by strapping them to Serenity, even Book.

Total Serenity crew
; 7- When we meet the crew Inara and Book are no longer part of it (the ship and crew are literally and figuratively falling apart). Inara rejoins but Book and Wash die. River now takes Wash's place as the co-pilot of Serenity.
Mal, Zoe, Jayne, Kaylee, Inarra, Simon, River,

Subverting the Hollywood cliche;
Facing the Reavers our heroes bravely run away. Indeed in the end they leave it to the Alliance troops to fight them, THEY save the day. Amazingly the villain actually survives. Mal pushes the guy off the mule and leaves him to the Reavers. We never do get to hear Book's story. Mal the noble hero never hesitates to shoot unarmed people.

Whedon cliches
;
Devoted siblings, haunted charismatic leading man. Teenage girls with superpowers. Hookers. Babbling insane girls with truth in their madness. Fake cockneys. Misguided religious zealots. Numbered t-shirts. Girls with botanical names (Willow, Saffron, Jasmine). Absent fathers. Clever use of extensive flashbacks. Women in boxes. Misogynists who get what's coming to them. Sex-bots. People with subliminal triggers.

Bondage
; River in cuffs
Mal; 2
River; 2
Simon; 1
River; 2
Jayne; 1
Wash; 1
Kaylee; 1

Knocked out
; Jayne and Simon knocked out by River, River knocked out by Simon's magic word
Book; 3
Simon; 3
Kaylee; 1
Jayne;4
Mal; 3
Wash; 1
Inara; 1
Zoe; 1
River; 2

 
Kills; Inara really participates in the fight for the first time. I'll give Jayne and Zoe 10 Reavers each, River 30 and everyone else 5. Amazingly Mal only kills 2 people.
Mal; 19-plus one possible, Jubal Early
Zoe; 27-
Jayne; 26-
Wash; 2
River; 33
Simon; 5
Kaylee; 5
Inara; 5
 
Happy high-class hookers in Space
;
Inara is working as an instructor at a companion training school which must be the best job EVER!
 
Whedon alumni- Joss likes to reuse the same actors in his series, let's count up their appearances (let me know if I miss any)
1. Nathan Fillon-3; Firefly, Caleb in S7 of Buffy and Dr Horrible
2. Gina Torres-2; Firefly and Jasmine in S4 of Angel
3. Alan Tudyk-2; Firefly and the villainous/heroic(?) Alpha in Dollhouse (haven't seen season 2 so don't spoil it for me)
4. Adam Baldwin-2; Firefly and Marcus Hamilton in S5 of Angel
5. Summer Glau-3; Firefly, Dollhouse and the prima ballerina in the LEGENDARY S4 Angel ep 'Waiting in the wings'.
6. Carlos Jacott-3; The Fed in Firefly, Ken in the 'Anne' ep of Buffy and Richard Straley in 'The Bachelor Party' ep of Angel.
7. Andy Umberger;3-the captain of the Dortmunder in Firefly, D'Hoffryn in Buffy, the psychic surgeon in the Angel ep 'I fall to pieces'.
8. Mark Shepherd;2-Badger in Firefly and later turns up as one of Ballard's FBI colleagues in Dollhouse. Also a BSG alumni.
9. Jeff Rickets;3- one of the blue handed men in Firefly and Weatherby on Buffy/Angel plus the spiderdemon at the end of Angel season 4
10. Gregg Henry; 2- he's one of those faces that occur time and again in TV/movies, the Sherrif in The Train Job and he later recurrs in the Dollhouse ep 'Ghost', one of my favourite eps of season 1.
11. Christina Hendricks; 2-Saffron in Firefly and a bar maid in the Angel ep 'The Prodigal'. She'll later star in Mad Men with Whedonverse alumni Vincent Kartheiser.
12. Ira Steck; 2-The intern here and the vamp Buffy fights in 'Lies my parents told me'.
13. Michael Nagy; 3-one of the hospital staff here, the Rat Pack vamp Jay-Don in the Angel ep 'The Shroud of Rahmon' and Alfonse (one of vampWillow's lackeys) in the Buffy ep Dopplegangland.
14. Cathy Cohen; 2-the admitting nurse here and the estate agent who hits on cool Xander in the Buffy ep The Replacement.
15. Jonathon Woodward; 3-as observed in the commentary, a hatrick (but not the only one), the vamp Holden Webster whom Buffy slays in 'Lies my parents told me', the traitorous Knox in season 5 of Angel and now Tracey in Firefly, each character seeming good but betraying everyone at the end.
So, 15 in total

Alliance good or bad?;
In this case Alliance bad but well intentioned. They wanted to create a society without violence which seems laudable but in the end turns into a nightmare. In the end the Alliance troops defeat the Reavers, saving the crew and rebuilding the Serenity. Whilst the Alliance seems set to continue it may be very different from now on.
Mal says the war is long done and Joss comments that he's put it behind him. So when he tells Simon that needling the Alliance is one of the reasons he let's him and River stay is he being truthful?
Simon really looks the part of the Alliance officer in the beginning. The Operative says that Mal isn't the hero and the Alliance isn't the evil empire. Joss himself remarks that he sees the Alliance as a largely benevolent force.
So, who would you have sided with in the war? I have to say that Blue Gloves aside I'd lean towards the Alliance.

Fanfic;
The continuing adventures of Serenity post-movie obviously popular. One common thread is that with Wash dead Mal now has to choose between Zoe and Inara as his love. Another is the Alliance unravelling and the crew coming to terms that they've created chaos in the universe and actually seeking to create a UN type organisation/Galactic senate.


Missing scenes
;
Reputedly had the series continued there'd have been an episode where Mal and Zoe are tracked down by a group of ex-Alliance soldiers intent on avenging a war crime that their Browncoat unit committed (like Principal Wood and Spike).
The deleted scenes are largely unremarkable except for Inara teaching her Companion skills to her young pupils. More of that would have probably made the film more successful at the box office.
 
Firefly speak;
Gorram=goddam.
Weak tea=not good
Back birth=idiot
Companion=high class courtesan
Gengish=competent
Doh-ma=understand/understood?
Rutting=bloody (or perhaps 'fraking'?)
Chin-cha-da=hell
Purple belly=officious bureaucrat
Ta-gow=Oh god!
Won-gwa-pee= to urinate or defecate
Gosa=excrement
Tien-sha-duh=rubbish
Los-soh-ret=crap
Dien-dyododo-chowen=bastard
Wah=what the hell?
Mah song=quickly
Jin-seen-yung=idiot
Nu-shu-quong=nice going
Mai-hong=hello
Sheinou-niou=no good
Mei, mei=little sister
Niou-se=lame
Hey-shu-peegou=dumbass
Moon brain=inbred?
Jus-sa-gran=dupes/suckers
Swa-shi=petty, small time
Trim=sex
Roller=tank or armoured vehicle
Jon-su=bitch/hardass
Wetware=smuggled organs
Sly=gay
Drops=narcotics
Fa-ta-bien=impossible/nonsense
 
Shot;
Jayne, Mal, Kaylee and Simon all shot
Mal; 3-
Kaylee;2-
Jayne;4-
Book;1-
Wash;1-
Simon; 2-
 
Crew injured;

Jayne get's staked in the leg and thumped by River. Mal routinely gets the stuffing beaten out of him.
 
Reminds me off;
River spying on Simon and Kaylee having sex reminds me off Dawn who was quite the voyeur with Buffy and Riley. The idea of a world without violence is something Joss reuses from season 4 of Angel. The Reavers are reminiscent of John Carpenter's film Ghosts of Mars. The opening scenes are very BSG whilst one of the guns in the bar fight looks like the ones they used on Babylon 5. The new mule is very Star Wars landspeeder (did they sell the Lassiter to pay for it?). Mal shoots the guy being eaten by the Reavers, very Last of the Mohicans.
Now of course Miranda (meaning 'most wonderful') is Prospero's daughter in The Tempest. We've already seen Ariel (the wonder of the Alliance?), does this make the Reavers Caliban? "This thing of darkness I acknowledge mine". And of course it was adapted as 'The Forbidden Planet'.
River's trigger is very like Spike's in Buffy. Alien is referred to again although this is a universe without aliens (The Operative refers to 'Building better worlds' which is the company's motto). Mal quotes The Ancient Mariner. The space battle is very Starship Troopers, Wrath of Khan, Babylon 5 and of course Star Wars. Zoe's assertion that they're not getting out alive is similar to Angel in Not Fade Away. Burning swing is very T2.
 
Questions and observations;
So we finally meet some real Reavers (we've only met one pseudo one before in Bushwhacked). But the Serenity crew never confront the Blue-gloves? Note when we see the slaughter at Haven Jayne still takes the time to loot. Who helps Simon rescue River? The Browncoat diehards who were to try and recruit Mal and Zoe if the series had continued? The Mal we see at the beginning is much more like the Mal we see in the pilot than the series. Wash the pilot always seems the last to know everything, he's rather left out.
The Alliance now use sleek ships. Mal's record shows him to be a captain in the Browncoats which is why Zoe calls him 'sir' which she shouldn't do if he's a sergeant (although if he really did command 2000 men at one point he's actually an acting brigadier). Are the Reavers all gone, did the Alliance wipe them out? Jayne plays the guitar, I wonder if he know's The Hero of Canton?. The Alliance troops have new armour, very Halo like. Jayne points out that of Mal's 30 man platoon he and Zoe were the only survivors, bearing out Zoe's assertion that a hero is someone who gets other people killed and a leader is 'something of a monster' (like ruthless Angel at the end of season 5 and hardass Buffy in season 7). After visiting Ariel River begins to get visibly better. Jayne comes to terms with Simon by offering him his whiskey.

Marks out of 10
; 9/10, very good, if this is the last we see of the crew (and it almost certainly is) this is a fine send off for them.

So, Firefly? Well, very enjoyable but I'd still say it's my least favourite of Joss' shows. Now of course maybe if it had lasted longer I would think more of it, if Buffy/Angel had only had 14 eps they wouldn't have grown into the great series they were. I think the best way to put it is that Firefly had the potential to be a great series. Interestingly Buffy was a largely unsuccessful film that was transformed into a tremmendously successful TV series with it's own successful spinoff. Firefly was a failed TV series that became a largely successful film.
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Old August 27 2010, 05:14 PM   #137
Mal
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

saturn5 wrote: View Post
SERENITY; the movie
The bad;
one aspect i absolutely cannot stand about the movie is Mr. Universe. Now i get it: you simply can't have a scifi movie now-a-days without some hacker-type. granted, but Mr. Universe is completely out of place in our Big Damn Hero's lives. If they had a hacker on their side (and why not?), he should have been living in some out of the way place, or maybe some ex-Alliance type who had joined Book's monastery.

But no, they got the money for a somewhat famous dude from Numb3rs who they could put in the trailer, and so they gave him a fancy pants role and called it a day. ugh

speaking of miscasting

saturn5 wrote: View Post
Disappointing that we get no Saffron or Jubal Early but you can't have everything.
again, they got money for Chewie to play the Operative and so we didn't get Jubal. now don't get me wrong, I <3 Chewie, especially in Children of Men, but man, just cause you gots the money don't mean you gots to spend it in places that don't matter. Jubal would have rocked!

the money would have been better spent... on Saffron!

holy shit, just thought of something: what if they get to Mr. Universe and find he's married to Saffron

ah, now i see why people write fanfic

saturn5 wrote: View Post
Marks out of 10; 9/10, very good
eh, i'd give it a 7. at least 4 episodes of firefly were better, including the pilot, which was basically the same length.

saturn5 wrote: View Post
if this is the last we see of the crew (and it almost certainly is) this is a fine send off for them
aren't you going to review the last episode
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Old August 27 2010, 06:13 PM   #138
Forbin
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

One thing I didn't buy in the film was Mr. Universe's planet - how do you run a broadcast/relay station on a world surrounded by a plasma cloud?

I also didn't like "mean Mal." I know the way he is in the film is the way Joss wanted to portray him, but the Mal of the series was the one thing Fox's notes got right.
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Old August 27 2010, 08:55 PM   #139
saturn5
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Forbin wrote: View Post
One thing I didn't buy in the film was Mr. Universe's planet - how do you run a broadcast/relay station on a world surrounded by a plasma cloud?

I also didn't like "mean Mal." I know the way he is in the film is the way Joss wanted to portray him, but the Mal of the series was the one thing Fox's notes got right.
Good point, when I saw it I did think Wrath of Khan and Joss confirms that on the commentary. But maybe he used the planets interference to hide and had some way of getting through the static (a short range relay satellite?)
I think we get nice Mal back at the end but like S5 Angel or S7 Buffy he's in a hard place and must be a hard taskmaster.

The Mr Universe married to Saffron idea is inspired although it would have negated the Buffybot spilling the secret concept. If you find/write it let me know
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Old August 27 2010, 09:56 PM   #140
WalkerBait
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

I think the movie muddies things a bit from what the series did but, overall, caps off the universe as a whole nicely, though more movies would've been nice.

I can say that seeing Serenity twice in pre-release screenings was some of the best theater-experiences I've ever had.

Funny thing to note, in the "blooper real" for the movie there's a scene of Nathan Fillion ad-libing as Mal as they prepare to leave Book's planet. He instructs the crew to but Book "right up front, he's our friend we should honor him!" Funny scene to watch as you can see some members of the cast giggling, most notably Jewel.

I think the movie muddied a couple aspects of the series. For example at no point in the series does Simon demonstrate that he has the suave and ability to pull off the "Academy" heist we see him pull-off in the opening scene of the movie. The "idea" behind the Reavers seems to have changed some, in the series they seem more mysterious and analogous to how some settlers precieved the Native Americans. Simply as "savages." But "savages" who're also able to operate ships and organize battles, etc. In the movie they're more like Hollywood zombies/monsters.

Really a lot of the stuff dealing with River and how much Simon "knew" seems pulled out of nowhere but there's likely a season's worth of development missing there.

Your "injury" report for the movie didn't include how every member of the crew suffers injury during the course of the movie. Mal gets beaten up pretty badly by The Operative, Zoe gets her back slashed open by the Reavers, I believe Jayne gets shot by the Reavers, Wash gets impaled by debris/projectile weaponry from the Reaver ship, Kaylee gets shot by the Reavers, Simon get stabbed/shot by the Reavers. Infact, I think the only ones to come out of the Reaver battle untouced are Inara and River.

And as much as it sucked to have Book die, Wash dying was even worse. But as much as I hated it I agree with the overall belief there was at the time that killing him made the final battle that much more tense. Because if Wash can be killed out-of-the-blue like that then no one is safe as, again, everyone takes some pretty hefty injury during the final scenes.

And I wasn't a big fan of Mr. Universe either. I think it would've made a bit more sense to use Badger as an "inside man" or even Patience to help the crew get their goals. It seemed out of place to introduce this guy out of nowhere.

The movie is good, mostly does what it set out to do, but I in the end it makes me long more for what could've been.
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Old August 27 2010, 10:23 PM   #141
Pemmer Harge
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

I see we've got to "how we feel about Firefly in general time". I've still not seen the last three episodes or Serenity, so my opinion is still partial, but I don't want to miss out:

So far, this is a series that I like a lot. The characters are generally likeable (in their own way) and interesting - Zoe, Jayne and Book are probably my favourites. I like the richness and diversity of the setting and I think the music complements it nicely.

There are some really good episodes as well, especially Out of Gas and Ariel. A few are so-so for me, but still likeable and I can easily forgive this in a first season.

To be honest, I was kind of wary of this show, even as I was looking forward to watching it, due to how vocal some of its more harcore fans can be (I like Mal, but it was a little offputting to see internet polls flooded with fans declaring him the greatest sci-fi hero of all time). However, it's appealing enough to overcome the hype.

Based on what I've seen, I think that if it had lasted longer it could have rivalled the likes of Trek, B5 and BSG. There's a huge amount of potential there and it would have really enhanced the sci-fi landscape of the last decade.
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Old August 28 2010, 02:49 AM   #142
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

I think you have to compare Firefly season one to BTVS and Angel's first seasons, if you want to make a fair comparison. If Buffy and Angel only had one season each, I think we can agree that neither of their first years are the very best representation of their respective shows. Firefly had amazing potential, and its such a shame we didnt get to see more. No doubt Joss had lots of plans of where the series could have gone.
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Old August 28 2010, 07:59 AM   #143
Mal
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

saturn5 wrote: View Post
The Mr Universe married to Saffron idea is inspired although it would have negated the Buffybot spilling the secret concept.
you know saffron would have sold them out to the operative in a heart beat. same result!


Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
The "idea" behind the Reavers seems to have changed some, in the series they seem more mysterious and analogous to how some settlers precieved the Native Americans. Simply as "savages." But "savages" who're also able to operate ships and organize battles, etc. In the movie they're more like Hollywood zombies/monsters.
If they take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eatflesh, and sew our skins into their clothing.
doesn't exactly sound like native americans.

i actually thought that the explanation from the movie kind of made sense as far as what we'd seen in the show. but it was just too sudden to discover it like that in the movie. i would have preferred a gradual discovery over the course of several seasons. but then, i would have preferred several seasons.

oh, how i miss firefly...


Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
I agree with the overall belief there was at the time that killing [Wash] made the final battle that much more tense. Because if Wash can be killed out-of-the-blue like that then no one is safe
i had ignored all spoilers before the movie, and i was totally shocked - like WTF just happened - but there was no fucking time to let it soak in, cause the movie just keeps on flying.
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Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
And I wasn't a big fan of Mr. Universe either. I think it would've made a bit more sense to use Badger as an "inside man" or even Patience
Badger is a great idea. Or even if they struck some deal with Niska. Enemy of my enemy...



Pemmer Harge wrote: View Post
I like Mal, but it was a little offputting to see internet polls flooded with fans declaring him the greatest sci-fi hero of all time
b-b-but he is!

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Old August 28 2010, 10:04 AM   #144
Pemmer Harge
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Mal wrote: View Post
Pemmer Harge wrote: View Post
I like Mal, but it was a little offputting to see internet polls flooded with fans declaring him the greatest sci-fi hero of all time
b-b-but he is!

And you're quite entitled to think so, but I don't think for a second that this is as common an opinion as the internet would lead one to believe
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Old August 28 2010, 10:10 AM   #145
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Mal wrote: View Post
again, they got money for Chewie to play the Operative and so we didn't get Jubal. now don't get me wrong, I <3 Chewie, especially in Children of Men, but man, just cause you gots the money don't mean you gots to spend it in places that don't matter. Jubal would have rocked!
Perhaps he would have, but he was the wrong character for this story. Serenity the movie needed the Operative, not Jubal.

Jubal was insane. He took the job as an assassin and bounty hunter because he was distinctly unstable and it gave him an excuse to hurt people, not because he had any feeling or loyalty to any particular cause.

The Operative was completely stone cold sane. He knew that he had to do horrible things, that he wasn't a nice person because of those things he had to do. But he had such belief in the rightness of his cause - the Alliance - that he considered any unpleasant means to be worth the end. He did the things he did because he wanted the final result for the entire known 'Verse, even if he himself was not allowed to be a part of that 'Verse because of the things he'd done to achieve his end. In short, he was a true believer, not a paid mercenary.

And that's important for the story, because at the end of the story the Operative loses his religion. He discovers that the Alliance is not the faultless perfect state that he believed it to be, and he must basically reconstruct his personality from the ground up because of this realization. Which is the same thing Mal had gone through when he lost his belief in the Independant army - and "God," however he defined it - after the Battle of Serenity Valley.

We see Mal, through the course of the show, rebuilding his life and finding a new reason to live - his new family on the Serenity. In the aftermath of the film, the Operative must now do the same.

Jubal Early couldn't have offered us anything like that. He would have just been "kewl."
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Old August 28 2010, 02:03 PM   #146
saturn5
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
I think the movie muddies things a bit from what the series did but, overall, caps off the universe as a whole nicely, though more movies would've been nice.

I can say that seeing Serenity twice in pre-release screenings was some of the best theater-experiences I've ever had.

Funny thing to note, in the "blooper real" for the movie there's a scene of Nathan Fillion ad-libing as Mal as they prepare to leave Book's planet. He instructs the crew to but Book "right up front, he's our friend we should honor him!" Funny scene to watch as you can see some members of the cast giggling, most notably Jewel.

I think the movie muddied a couple aspects of the series. For example at no point in the series does Simon demonstrate that he has the suave and ability to pull off the "Academy" heist we see him pull-off in the opening scene of the movie. The "idea" behind the Reavers seems to have changed some, in the series they seem more mysterious and analogous to how some settlers precieved the Native Americans. Simply as "savages." But "savages" who're also able to operate ships and organize battles, etc. In the movie they're more like Hollywood zombies/monsters.

Really a lot of the stuff dealing with River and how much Simon "knew" seems pulled out of nowhere but there's likely a season's worth of development missing there.

Your "injury" report for the movie didn't include how every member of the crew suffers injury during the course of the movie. Mal gets beaten up pretty badly by The Operative, Zoe gets her back slashed open by the Reavers, I believe Jayne gets shot by the Reavers, Wash gets impaled by debris/projectile weaponry from the Reaver ship, Kaylee gets shot by the Reavers, Simon get stabbed/shot by the Reavers. Infact, I think the only ones to come out of the Reaver battle untouced are Inara and River.

And as much as it sucked to have Book die, Wash dying was even worse. But as much as I hated it I agree with the overall belief there was at the time that killing him made the final battle that much more tense. Because if Wash can be killed out-of-the-blue like that then no one is safe as, again, everyone takes some pretty hefty injury during the final scenes.

And I wasn't a big fan of Mr. Universe either. I think it would've made a bit more sense to use Badger as an "inside man" or even Patience to help the crew get their goals. It seemed out of place to introduce this guy out of nowhere.

The movie is good, mostly does what it set out to do, but I in the end it makes me long more for what could've been.
You're right I missed Zoe but I did include Mal getting hammered all the time, Jayne in the shot column and Wash in the Crew column etc
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Old August 28 2010, 04:41 PM   #147
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

In tghe new table discussion on the blurays, Joss says that he so loved writing the stylized dialog that he still thinks in those speech patterns sometimes, wishes he could still be writing that way, and curses the day it was taken away from him.

DAMN you, Fox!
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Old August 28 2010, 06:25 PM   #148
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
The Operative was completely stone cold sane. He knew that he had to do horrible things, that he wasn't a nice person because of those things he had to do. But he had such belief in the rightness of his cause - the Alliance - that he considered any unpleasant means to be worth the end. He did the things he did because he wanted the final result for the entire known 'Verse, even if he himself was not allowed to be a part of that 'Verse because of the things he'd done to achieve his end. In short, he was a true believer, not a paid mercenary.
That's a very interesting perspective. It makes the Operative a lot like Sloan on DS9. But Sloan had Bashir as the the perfect foil, whereas Mal is no idealist. Which leads me to the problem:

lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
And that's important for the story, because at the end of the story the Operative loses his religion.
Sloan never has an illusions that the Federation is doing bad things, because he's doing bad things. All the time. In order to save the Federation, which he believes - however flawed - is fundamentally good.

That's why I don't believe that someone like the Operative could lose his religion at the end. The man has done some horrendous shit in his life - just in the opening minutes he slaughters the lab staff that let River escape. It seems unreasonable that a man who has seen as much as he has - who has done as much as he has - would be shocked by the Reaver reveal at the end.

Sloan wouldn't even bat an eye.
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Old August 28 2010, 06:55 PM   #149
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Funny thing to note, in the "blooper real" for the movie there's a scene of Nathan Fillion ad-libing as Mal as they prepare to leave Book's planet. He instructs the crew to but Book "right up front, he's our friend we should honor him!" Funny scene to watch as you can see some members of the cast giggling, most notably Jewel.
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Old August 28 2010, 07:50 PM   #150
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

I really hated that Niska didn't die horribly. He was such a good villain, I wish there had been more of him.



About Mr. Universe, I don't want to say I'm all onboard and thought it was the greatest idea ever or anything... BUT I did find it a unique and interesting sci-fi concept. And it looked cool when they were flying in to talk to him the first time, showing all the "signals" and whatever. As a character he was too goofy, but the concept I give props to.
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