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Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

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Old August 25 2010, 10:30 PM   #121
Neroon
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Okay, let's dispense with the critiquing of saturn5's formatting issues and stick to the subject of the episodes reviewed / discussed.


And to get back on topic, here's the screen cap of Han making his appearance in "Heart of Gold"
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File Type: jpg FF-Han-Carbonite-HoG.jpg (16.2 KB, 15 views)
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Old August 26 2010, 12:46 AM   #122
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

"Heart of Gold" has what I think is Firefly's funniest line ever, when they're discussing tactics and Wash acts like he knows what's going on with his super serious "Three point...four hour...should do it."
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Old August 26 2010, 12:54 AM   #123
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Note that when Mal kisses Nandi he pauses for a moment, she asks him what he's doing and he says something "like he's waiting for something." Obviously, he's waiting for a "reaction" from the "goodnight kiss" he got from Yosaffbridge in her first episode.
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Old August 26 2010, 12:11 PM   #124
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Lindley wrote: View Post
He's not typing these out, he's copy/pasting them from elsewhere. My guess is that the other board automatically inserts the tags to try and preserve formatting.
[whisper] I'm not entirely sure saturn5 is a 'he' [/whisper]
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Old August 26 2010, 03:34 PM   #125
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Well leaving my gender issues aside for one moment CC does have a lesbian scene in the movie The Groomsman I belive, anyone ever seen it?
And when I try to preview my posts it just screws them up royally! Only one more to go anyway
 
OBJECTS IN SPACE

The good;
All of it, very, very good, especially love the opening of Summer as she prowls around the ship listening to everyone's thoughts, the character of Jubal Early, the crew's meeting to discuss River and her plan is inspired.
 
The bad;
River's reluctance to use firearms to dispose of Early seems a little strange, she's never seemed to have any reservations before. Plus shooting him would be a lot more humane than leaving him to suffocate?
 
Best line;
Simon; "My sisters a ship, we had a complicated childhood"
plus
Mal; "If I wanted medical jargon I'd talk to a doctor"
Simon; "You ARE talking to a doctor"
and
Simon; "Come on out Summer, the nice man wants to kidnap you"

Packing heat;
River get's her hands on Jayne's Desert Eagle 44. Magnum (which dwarfs her), possibly because she senses the impending threat of Early. Jayne says it won't penetrate the ship's hull, that not even Vera could do that. Early has a 'finely crafted pistol' but it seems to be a pure prop gun rather than any contemporary firearm. On his commentary Joss says he doesn't like guns but Buffy aside you'd be hard put to accept that to judge by his shows/films.
Jayne boasts about once hitting a man at 500yrds with a bent scope (Patience's men in Serenity?)

Kinky dinky;
Early threatens to rape Kaylee to get her co-operation. We take it that when he talks of giving Kaylee and 'present' and ridding her off a 'problem' he means River but maybe he takes her as a virgin and is telling her they're going to have sex? River observes he's all about "Power, control, pain'
River voyeuristically 'mindrops' on Wash and Zoe getting kissy on the bridge (aside from Homer and Marge they seem to be the most sexually active married couple ever). Topless Simon for the straight girls and sly boys (Joss admits he doesn't mind giving his audience some cheesecake) plus him playing footsie with Kaylee. He also relates the story of some youthful streaking to celebrate his graduation as a surgeon.
Book is celibate but avoids the question of masturbation.
 
Notches on the Serenity bedpost; we don't know what happens between Kaylee and Early after he ties her up but I don't think so. She also relates a possible story about bedding a 14 year old 'genetic experiment' but again, unconfirmed.

Inarra;3+1 possible, Atherton.
Wash; 1-the missus
Zoe; 1-the hubby
Kaylee;1-Bester
Jayne; 1-at least 1 Heart of Gold whore and possibly many others
Mal; 1-Nandi

Capt subtext;
Mal says that he's perfectly fine with Kaylee never having killed anyone, he wants to keep her the one sweet and innocent thing in his life. Early's fate, left hanging in space with an uncertain future is a metaphor for the series itself.
When Jayne threatens that he and Wash will 'Go somewhere' over his teasing Wash says he hopes it's somewhere with candlelight.

How'd they get away with that?
Early threatening Kaylee is hard to watch as is his pistol whipping Inara across the face. Early licks the ship? Is he descended from Benton Fraser RCMP?

Total Serenity crew; 9-
Mal, Zoe, Jayne, Wash, Kaylee, Inarra, Simon, River, Book

Subverting the Hollywood cliche;
We expect Book to tell the truth about being knocked out but he actually lies. We think Jayne is reaching his arsenal when he pulls the curtain back but actually he's just grabbing a blanket. Kaylee actually gives in, surrenders to Early and let's him tie her up, betraying River to him.

Whedon cliches;
Devoted siblings, haunted charismatic leading man. Teenage girls with superpowers. Hookers. Babbling insane girls with truth in their madness. Fake cockneys. Misguided religious zealots. Numbered t-shirts. Girls with botanical names (Willow, Saffron, Jasmine). Absent fathers. Clever use of extensive flashbacks. Women in boxes. Misogynists who get what's coming to them.

Bondage; Kaylee tied up by Early
Mal; 2
River; 1
Simon; 1
River; 1
Jayne; 1
Wash; 1
Kaylee; 1

Knocked out; Book and Mal by Early
Book; 3
Simon; 2
Kaylee; 1
Jayne;3
Mal; 3
Wash; 1
Inara; 1
Zoe; 1
River; 1

Women good/men bad;
Early questions why men are physically stronger yet women have the children?

Kills; Mal kills Early (or does he? Put him down as a possible)
Mal; 17-plus one possible, Jubal Early
Zoe; 17-
Jayne; 16-
Wash; 2
River; 3
 
Happy high-class hookers in Space;
Early exclaims "I'll be a son of a whore"

Know the face?
Richard Brooks a familar face for all Law&Order fans (until his replacement by Mrs Gere and then Kate Lochley) and truly excellent here in a role where he really plays against type.

Alliance good or bad?;
 
 
Fanfic;
Plenty about the future adventures of Jubal Early. Amongst the means for his survival are;
1) Venting air from his spacesuit to propel him back to his own ship
2) Boosting the power of his magnetic shoes in order to attract him back to it
3) Remote control of his own ship once Serenity is out of sensor range (it does seem to fly off under some form of direction)
4) Firing his gun to use the recoil to direct himself
5) Picked up by the blue gloves who are also trailing Serenity
Unfortunately some include him making good on his threats to Kaylee.
 
Missing scenes; or deleted scenes in this case
1. Scene where we see Zoe and Mal being picked up by the rescue ships after the battle of Serenity. Very graphic with the ground littered with corpses and Zoe in particular looking as though she's on her last legs. It's a powerful scene but if they had left it in it would have detracted from Mal's 'loss of faith' moment in the pilot.
2. Zoe tells Simon about the battle of Serenity in all it's gory detail, 500,000 killed in less than 2 months. What makes this more interesting is that she states that the Browncoats leaders left them to rot on the battlefield for a week, they resent the Independents High Command as well as the Alliance.
3. Well I guess I owe Alan Tudyk an apology, there IS an incestuous subtext between Simon and River (at least on River's part) he didn't just make it up out of the blue in his commentary for War Stories. It's all actually quite innocent, like a little girl playing at weddings and casting her father or brother as the groom. She accuses Saffron of being a thief, the crew think she means snaffling the food but she actually means more than that. Mal's speech to Saffron about standing up for herself shows his attitude towards women and gives her the idea of how to hoodwink him. This scene also explains why Summer Glau had no lines in the whole of Our Mrs Reynolds.
4. Inara announces she's leaving, excised because of the crazy order in which the show was shown so as to make more sense.

 
Firefly speak;
Gorram=goddam.
Weak tea=not good
Back birth=idiot
Companion=high class courtesan
Gengish=competent
Doh-ma=understand/understood?
Rutting=bloody (or perhaps 'fraking'?)
Chin-cha-da=hell
Purple belly=officious bureaucrat
Ta-gow=Oh god!
Won-gwa-pee= to urinate or defecate
Gosa=excrement
Tien-sha-duh=rubbish
Los-soh-ret=crap
Dien-dyododo-chowen=bastard
Wah=what the hell?
Mah song=quickly
Jin-seen-yung=idiot
Nu-shu-quong=nice going
Mai-hong=hello
Sheinou-niou=no good
Mei, mei=little sister
Niou-se=lame
Hey-shu-peegou=dumbass
Moon brain=inbred?
Jus-sa-gran=dupes/suckers
Swa-shi=petty, small time
Trim=sex
Roller=tank or armoured vehicle
Jon-su=bitch/hardass
Wetware=smuggled organs
Sly=gay
Drops=narcotics
Fa-ta-bien=impossible/nonsense

Shot; Simon shot
Mal; 2-
Kaylee;1-
Jayne;3-
Book;1-
Wash;1-
Simon; 1-

Crew injured;
Mal gets a beating as does Simon again, Book get's a sore head. Inara get's a split lip from her pistol-whipping.
 
Reminds me off;
I guess I don't have to say Bobby Fett right down to his suit, gun and ship because Joss admits it in the commentary. Early threatening Kaylee reminds me of Glory and Tara in Tough Love.
Early's remark of " Maybe I've always been here?" is very The Shining.

Questions and observations;
I had thought it was stupid that Serenity had controls allowing someone to seal the crew into their cabins from the outside but it was pointed out if the ship was depressurised they would need to be able to seal off each compartment. Note Kayleigh is the only one not to have any hidden thoughts for River to read, she's totally open. Book's thoughts make you wonder if he was previously a cop or judge? As early observes, "That's not a Shepherd" Jayne appears to cook pancakes. Note when River has the gun it's Kaylee who backs away most having seen what she's capable off. The crew still don't know about Jayne's betrayal on Ariel.
Mal sure does love his double negatives when talking. Wash seems to delight in teasing Jayne although you'd wonder if he'd be quite so brave without Zoe to back him up? He also thinks telepathy is science fiction even when he's on a spaceship, very postmodern.
It appears people eat horses in the future. Early is the kind of interesting recurring villain the series sorely needs. Unfortunately this is the final ep.

Marks out of 10; 9/10, nice to see the series go out on a high
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Old August 26 2010, 03:45 PM   #126
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

D Man wrote: View Post
"Heart of Gold" has what I think is Firefly's funniest line ever, when they're discussing tactics and Wash acts like he knows what's going on with his super serious "Three point...four hour...should do it."
Yeah, love that one, Wash really is the Joxer to Zoe's Xena. But actually I think they're a lovely couple and compliment each other well
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Old August 26 2010, 03:47 PM   #127
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Early threatens to rape Kaylee to get her co-operation. We take it that when he talks of giving Kaylee and 'present' and ridding her off a 'problem' he means River but maybe he takes her as a virgin and is telling her they're going to have sex?
This is... "kinky"

I...

I...

Wha.....?!?!?!?!?!

Anyway. No, his "present" that he's taking River away. He threatens her with rape to convince her to help him, if she doesn't help him he's going to rape her to death! "You'll die crying/weaping."

Anyway, you're not exactly "done" yet. You've still got the movie "Serenity" to watch which wraps the series up.... Sorta.

It appears people eat horses in the future....
I think this one gets mis-interpreted a lot. "If wishes were horses..." is a common expression meaning that "if wishes were as plentiful as horses we could have whatever we want." Becuase one could wish for them! If wishes were horses they'd all be eating steak because they could wish for money/steak itself. We know they have cows and cows that're used for meat. We actualy see them transport cattle for this very purpose in the fourth or fith episode. (Safe.)

I've never taken it to mean they "eat horses."
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Old August 26 2010, 05:14 PM   #128
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Early threatens to rape Kaylee to get her co-operation. We take it that when he talks of giving Kaylee and 'present' and ridding her off a 'problem' he means River but maybe he takes her as a virgin and is telling her they're going to have sex?
This is... "kinky"

I...

I...

Wha.....?!?!?!?!?!

Anyway. No, his "present" that he's taking River away. He threatens her with rape to convince her to help him, if she doesn't help him he's going to rape her to death! "You'll die crying/weaping."

Anyway, you're not exactly "done" yet. You've still got the movie "Serenity" to watch which wraps the series up.... Sorta.

It appears people eat horses in the future....
I think this one gets mis-interpreted a lot. "If wishes were horses..." is a common expression meaning that "if wishes were as plentiful as horses we could have whatever we want." Becuase one could wish for them! If wishes were horses they'd all be eating steak because they could wish for money/steak itself. We know they have cows and cows that're used for meat. We actualy see them transport cattle for this very purpose in the fourth or fith episode. (Safe.)

I've never taken it to mean they "eat horses."
I think trying to figure out Jubal Early's 'logic' such as it is does not follow any rules.
As for the horses, remember the 'good dogs' in Serenity; the ep?
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Old August 26 2010, 05:48 PM   #129
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Just want to say I liked these reviews for the most part, even some of the statistics, I particularly thought the kill count was interesting.


But way overboard with all the fanfic/fetish stuff. It's like, weird, that you know all about that.


I loved the series and I loved Serenity regardless of the many complaints against it. You should review the movie.
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Old August 27 2010, 12:10 AM   #130
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

saturn5 wrote: View Post
And when I try to preview my posts it just screws them up royally! Only one more to go anyway
 
OBJECTS IN SPACE
absolutely perfect formatting see, now when you review Serenity (the movie, not the pilot), you'll have no complaints from us... at least as to the formatting


saturn5 wrote: View Post
Best line;
Simon; "My sisters a ship, we had a complicated childhood"


i'm not sure you experienced this (since it wasn't in your review), but i remember the first time i watched the show, i thought we had some really "high-concept" thing (like Brannon Braga high concept), and River had actually turned into the ship! needless to say, i felt very silly after

saturn5 wrote: View Post
Kinky dinky;
Early threatens to rape Kaylee to get her co-operation.
i'm gonna go with Trekker4747 with this one:

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
This is... "kinky"

I...

I...

Wha.....?!?!?!?!?!

He threatens her with rape to convince her to help him, if she doesn't help him he's going to rape her to death! "You'll die crying/weaping."
i don't know where exactly you come from saturn5, but i'm pretty sure most normal people around these parts don't consider rape-to-the-death to be kinky

saturn5 wrote: View Post
Fanfic;
Unfortunately some include him [Jubal] making good on his threats to Kaylee.
are you a fan of this fic
 
saturn5 wrote: View Post
Early's remark of " Maybe I've always been here?" is very The Shining.
that's very Kosh.

saturn5 wrote: View Post
It appears people eat horses in the future.
ummm

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
I think this one gets mis-interpreted a lot. "If wishes were horses..." is a common expression meaning that "if wishes were as plentiful as horses we could have whatever we want."

I've never taken it to mean they "eat horses."
you would think a DS9 fan would already know that.

Thanks for reviewing the series. Interesting to see a Buffy fan's perspective on the whole thing. Looking forward to your review of the movie.

keep flying.
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Old August 27 2010, 01:38 AM   #131
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

I came to Firefly after having already lived, loved, and rewatched Buffy and Angel religiously. So I was already a dyed in the wool Joss Whedon fan. I decided to pick up the DVD of Firefly one day on a whim (I missed the original broadcast). It was cheap so I figured 'why not'? I fell in love with this show, its universe, and its rich characters straight away. Firefly was the little show that couldn't...as far as the networks were concerned. But it most certainly could. What other show has such a fervent fanbase despite its half season, years after the fact?

I can only imagine the pain you guys who saw it first time around felt. I knew going in that I was only going to get half a season of episodes, and one movie, with these characters, so I knew to make every little moment last, and savour it all. FOX makes me so angry. I would have loved to see more of this universe. I was pissed when Angel was cancelled. Really pissed. The show had just reinvented itself, and was getting higher ratings, and yet being produced on a lower budget. What gives? I was pissed when Enterprise was cancelled, just when it was getting good. It was probably even worse in Firefly's case. At least Angel and ENT got five and four seasons respectively. These days, for a genre show, that's a pretty decent run. Firefly never had a goddamn chance on network TV. It should have been on cable or Sci Fi from the start. I can't believe Joss came crawling back to TV after what FOX did to him. At least the suits gave Dollhouse a second season, not wanting to repeat the mistake they made with Angel and Firefly.

Glad you enjoyed the show, Saturn, and I look forward to seeing what you think of the film. Dollhouse or Dr Horrible review thread next up?
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Old August 27 2010, 03:34 AM   #132
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

I came to Firefly a few years ago when the DM at my game played the first episode (not all of the players showed up so we couldn't play as we needed some of them for the storyline we were in) and the second episode. Afterwards he lent me the first disc for me to finish. (The other discs had been circulating in the group for a while so I guess it was my turn.)

It was like being handed a pamphlet from a cultist in an airport lobby, or a freebie from a dealer. The first episode alone piqued my interest and by the end of the first disc I was hooked and got my own set, returning the disc to my DM at our next session. Watched through the series and showed the first episode to one of my friends and he got hooked after the first epiosde. Remarking how impressed he was at the pilot and utterly confused as to why it wasn't aired first.

I'd really go out on a limb and say "Serenity" is one of the better pilots in modern television in terms of setting up the characters and the universe. There's just something about the way the music and scenery works to set everything up. What I liked esp. is the scene between Inara with her client and the music that plays from sort-of a contemporary type-music to a much "rougher" and Asian-twangy beat as we transition to the poor-section of the planet, the Eavesdown Docks. Just something about that scene all by itself that sets up the tone of the entire series quite nicely. And as odd as it is and as much as I rack, and still rack, by brain trying to make it jive the Western Sci-Fi stuff actualy kind of works!

It doesn't make any damn sense that all of the sudden men who pilot space-ships and fly across the galaxy/a large solar sytsem are wearing dusters, riding horses, carrying old-west looking guns but it just somehow all worked. And I loved the mixing for Chinese and English (even though it makes little sense) and the "Firefly Speak" in terms of curses and slang. God, this was such a good show. And right now we would've just had the series finale and/or possibly even entering the final season.

God, what a show this could've been. It says something when the entire first season is well made and has only one or two "weak" episodes and only weak in terms of "not as good as the best episodes."

God. Fuck you Fox!
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Old August 27 2010, 04:25 AM   #133
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

I was on board with Firefly from the beginning. I cancelled my cable the summer before Firefly aired, but I got my parents to tape the show for me. Unlike a lot of folks, in my area the show was never pre-empted by the World Series, and I got every aired episode on tape. I downloaded the additional episodes from Hello, Cowgirl before the DVD set was released, along with all the others, and watched them over and over on my computer & VHS tapes until the DVDs finally came out. Then there was the movie to look forward to. We had a huge countdown thread here in anticipation of Serenity, and it was SO much fun. Dragon*Con 2004 was absolutely unbelievable, lousy with Browncoats everywhere.

It was an amazing ride of fandom to go through - all for the love of this little show. It brought so many people together, facilitated so many friendships, boosted the careers of some truly talented and worthy performers. There aren't many fandoms that had such a pervasive influence, and none that did it on the basis of half a season of TV. Firefly is, in a word, SHINY.
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Old August 27 2010, 06:29 AM   #134
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
It was like being handed a pamphlet from a cultist in an airport lobby, or a freebie from a dealer. The first episode alone piqued my interest and by the end of the first disc I was hooked and got my own set
it was like a cult.

i remember, i saw the first 1 minute of The Train Job, which was the first episode to air. saw some weirdo get thrown out a digital window. thought this looks like bullshit, turned off the TV, and went out.

and that would have been that.

except a friend was hosting the episodes on her FTP server, and after four or five of them had aired, she promised me that they were awesome, and told me that i should really just give the show a try.

so i did. and man, nothing has ever been the same again.

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
God. Fuck you Fox!
i must be the only one who is eternally grateful to FOX for giving us firefly. i can't imagine any of the other networks even giving it a second look.

14 episodes of heaven is better than no heaven.
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Old August 27 2010, 11:34 AM   #135
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Re: Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Mal wrote: View Post
i must be the only one who is eternally grateful to FOX for giving us firefly. i can't imagine any of the other networks even giving it a second look.
Fox dicked around with the schedule. "The Train Job" was the first episode to air and, obviously, it didn't impress you on first viewing. Had they shown Serenity first it likely would've won you over. Not to mention airing the episodes out of order and the premeptions they just didn't give the show a chance.

But, really, the biggest dick-move was not airing the damn pilot first!
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